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Old 04-15-2010, 04:50 PM   #1
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Crowd Reactions
Has anybody else noticed the decline of and beyond lackluster crowd reactions the last several years? I was watching some old DVD's this week and noticed that the crowds back in the day were way louder and more into everything, even some clearly not so great matches. And I'm not talking just about the Attitude era, I'm talking consistently 80's, 90's and early 2000's. I know part of it has to do with the change in the audience's age/target market, but I think that it is also a reflection on how much of a clusterfuck the writing and star development for both WWE and TNA has been the last several years. It seems like there's no direction or consistency. Push a guy, feud or story one week and then bury or almost ignore it the next. Any thoughts?
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Old 04-15-2010, 04:53 PM   #2
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The being dead during the Bret/Vince thing pretty much convinced me they don't actually respect the product like before. They're too cool to get hype, I guess.
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Old 04-15-2010, 04:53 PM   #3
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Pretty sure it's got alot to do with soap opera writers instead of people that know how to book wrestling.
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Old 04-15-2010, 04:53 PM   #4
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That's assuming the average wrestling fan knows the difference.
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Old 04-15-2010, 04:54 PM   #5
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Or cares.
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Old 04-15-2010, 04:56 PM   #6
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It doesn't matter if anyone even realizes it's happened. There is a difference, whether the average fan realizes it or not. My proof? Listen to the crowd, and look at the decline of the product.
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Old 04-15-2010, 05:03 PM   #7
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One of the biggest pops ever came "Canadian Stampede" PPV when The Foundation came out.
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Old 04-15-2010, 05:07 PM   #8
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So you think the degradation of the product came before the fans became shitty? That's a fine stance, I suppose, 'chicken before the egg' and all that. I just don't agree, which is fine as well.
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Old 04-15-2010, 05:13 PM   #9
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Totally agree with you on the to each his own thing, but to me. I got sour on the product as a whole after the invasion thing. It was a result of the WWE toning it down due to the fact that they didn't have to try to grab the ratings anymore. Problem is, not only did they fail to grab up WCW's viewers, the decline in the product and the invasion clusterfuck led to them losing alot of their own viewers as well. Like a tobacco company, they looked to replace those viewers wherever they could. Presently this has lead us to the TV-PG era, which is all good, with the exception of the fact that the fans in the stands have no passion for the product anymore. A ten year old that's been watching for five years could never even hope to out pop a 35 year old who's been a fan of x wrestler for longer than the 10 year old has been alive.
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Old 04-15-2010, 05:27 PM   #10
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I think fans need to be weened back into what makes pro-wrestling great. I remember an initiative for longer matches that they experimented with an HBK/Cena program, which they quickly dropped.
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Old 04-15-2010, 05:47 PM   #11
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Totally agree with you on the to each his own thing, but to me. I got sour on the product as a whole after the invasion thing. It was a result of the WWE toning it down due to the fact that they didn't have to try to grab the ratings anymore. Problem is, not only did they fail to grab up WCW's viewers, the decline in the product and the invasion clusterfuck led to them losing alot of their own viewers as well. Like a tobacco company, they looked to replace those viewers wherever they could. Presently this has lead us to the TV-PG era, which is all good, with the exception of the fact that the fans in the stands have no passion for the product anymore. A ten year old that's been watching for five years could never even hope to out pop a 35 year old who's been a fan of x wrestler for longer than the 10 year old has been alive.
I totally agree. To me, the product and fanbase peaked at Mania X-7. Soon after that, everything went downhill pretty fast. With the exception of the Hogan/Rock match the following year, I don't really remember anything great that stood out. Not that there weren't some good things after that but nothing that really stands out to me.

Take Bret Hart for example, his return and Mania match should have gotten a huge reaction. His return got hardly any reaction compared to past standards, and the Mania match got nothing at all basically. The lack of reaction honestly made me ALMOST wish he hadn't returned. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he was able to return and get some closure with Vince, Shawn and HHH, etc. I man of his legendary status and history should have gotten a much bigger pop, especially since it had been 13 years.

Not to sound like an old man but, "DAMN KIDS!"
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Old 04-15-2010, 05:49 PM   #12
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I think we know this already, doesn't need to be discussed. Bloody newbie's.
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Old 04-15-2010, 07:34 PM   #13
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Rather talk to newbie's, than IWC snobs like you. Get off your high horse.
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Old 04-15-2010, 07:35 PM   #14
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Rather talk to newbie's, than IWC snobs like you. Get off your high horse.
You da man Fig, much respect.
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Old 04-15-2010, 09:16 PM   #15
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...we are in 2010...everything's "digitalized"...Digital TV's, High Definition, enhanced audio...everything has to be seen and heard more clearly...is it possible this is the reason why the pop's aren't heard as loud on tv as the 80's and 90's?
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Old 04-15-2010, 09:17 PM   #16
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...we are in 2010...everything's "digitalized"...Digital TV's, High Definition, enhanced audio...everything has to be seen and heard more clearly...is it possible this is the reason why the pop's aren't heard as loud on tv as the 80's and 90's?
I was going to say something like this.
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Old 04-15-2010, 09:18 PM   #17
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Also, if Bret had pulled the stick out of his ass five years ago, he might have gotten the reaction everyone was looking for.
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Old 04-15-2010, 09:22 PM   #18
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Also, if Bret had pulled the stick out of his ass five years ago, he might have gotten the reaction everyone was looking for.
I think it's a shame WWE didn't have any events in Canada while the Hart-McMahon storyline was going on. Would've been interesting to see the pop.

...I guess he still can go with The Hart Dynasty.
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Old 04-15-2010, 09:24 PM   #19
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I think it's a shame WWE didn't have any events in Canada while the Hart-McMahon storyline was going on. Would've been interesting to see the pop.

...I guess he still can go with The Hart Dynasty.
Yeah, unfortunately the schedule was locked in way before he jumped on board. Sad.
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Old 04-15-2010, 09:25 PM   #20
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Quote:
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...we are in 2010...everything's "digitalized"...Digital TV's, High Definition, enhanced audio...everything has to be seen and heard more clearly...is it possible this is the reason why the pop's aren't heard as loud on tv as the 80's and 90's?
How does that effect difference of the pops in the arenas versus 10+ years ago?
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Old 04-15-2010, 09:29 PM   #21
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How does that effect difference of the pops in the arenas versus 10+ years ago?
It affects what you hear on TV. Haven't you ever heard of fan reactions being edited to suit what a promotion wants? How do you think that is done?
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Old 04-15-2010, 09:29 PM   #22
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How does that effect difference of the pops in the arenas versus 10+ years ago?
...maybe so that the play-by-play dudes can be heard better, they do something so that the crowd won't be as loud.

...also, I dont know...maybe the consensus was that a loud crowd on tv bothered some people so they minimize that...I dont know. I DO know that it probably has something to do with the fact that pops aren't as loud...too bad I know NOTHING about audio and...crap.
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Old 04-15-2010, 09:37 PM   #23
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I meant live, bro... there's a noticable difference when you're in the arena.
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Old 04-15-2010, 09:38 PM   #24
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I meant live, bro... there's a noticable difference when you're in the arena.
I've been at a live event in the past year and there was no difference from any event I've attended in the past 20. Maybe your local crowd just sucks.
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Old 04-15-2010, 09:43 PM   #25
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I've been at a live event in the past year and there was no difference from any event I've attended in the past 20. Maybe your local crowd just sucks.
I live in Houston, TX bro, and here there's a difference. The sound of the pops/ boos have gone down just like on TV.
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Old 04-15-2010, 09:47 PM   #26
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There's also the reality that us fans in 2010 are a little more "business smart" than those of 1980 or 1990. We know more "backstage stuff" than those fans EVER did, we have spoilers, which take away the "surprise" element from the equation, and quite frankly, we have seen ALOT...it takes ALOT to surprise us nowadays, and it takes ALOT to hype us up and get us excited, because something happens, and it's like "Aww, i KNEW that was going to happen...I read it at TPWW", or, "Aww...THAT AGAIN?! That happened 3 years ago".

...it's tough. Alot of things have influence over the "2010 crowd".
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Old 04-15-2010, 09:50 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguakate View Post
There's also the reality that us fans in 2010 are a little more "business smart" than those of 1980 or 1990. We know more "backstage stuff" than those fans EVER did, we have spoilers, which take away the "surprise" element from the equation, and quite frankly, we have seen ALOT...it takes ALOT to surprise us nowadays, and it takes ALOT to hype us up and get us excited, because something happens, and it's like "Aww, i KNEW that was going to happen...I read it at TPWW", or, "Aww...THAT AGAIN?! That happened 3 years ago".

...it's tough. Alot of things have influence over the "2010 crowd".
I can totally agree with this one. Props dude.
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:20 PM   #28
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Does anybody else find it odd that we're arguing about how the fans don't care anymore even though they plopped a couple hundred bucks down for tickets to the show?

It's definitely something else. It could be the new audio, but that doesn't explain something like the Royal Rumble this year where the Detroit crowd was super hot and it came off as one of the old school crowds.


I think whoever said something about the IWC might be onto something. We have way more cynics in the audience now. Cheering is usually a mob mentality and if you've got fans who think they're above cheering wildly, then that attitude can spread.
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:24 PM   #29
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Exactly. People are too afraid to look like marks and just sit there instead of actually enjoying the show.
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:26 PM   #30
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Not every seats a couple hundred bucks, and the front rows are often rowdy for the camera and the closer interaction with the superstars. But yeah, nobody wants to 'mark out' anymore. Getting hype has a bad connotation. It's not even wrestling fans, it's the whole generation people who like whatever. Everybody's a fucking know it all critic who's entitled to being impressed. Fuck off.

/Rant
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:32 PM   #31
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I just think that we as fans should just watch the product and become FANS once again...and stop trying to worry about EVERYTHING else. Stop dissecting everything.
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:35 PM   #32
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I agree with you, but...
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Originally Posted by Aguakate View Post
I just think that we as fans should just watch the product and become FANS once again...and stop trying to worry about EVERYTHING else. Stop dissecting everything.
good luck on that one. People love dissecting everything and I'll never understand why.
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:38 PM   #33
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Even the biggest marks on the planet can't avoid the cynicism. Some 10 year old goes to youtube to look at videos of his favorite wrestler John Cena and what is he gonna see? 50 comments that Cena's a fag and his fans are faggy little bitches. That's fucked up.
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:39 PM   #34
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Haters gonna hate.
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:43 PM   #35
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Everything was better in 1995 when a guy who had a truck horn as theme music and "Diesel" as a name could become World Champion and people wouldn't hate.
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:49 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguakate View Post
I just think that we as fans should just watch the product and become FANS once again...and stop trying to worry about EVERYTHING else. Stop dissecting everything.
I agree with you here, but they should also put out a product that enables me to become a fan again. Back when Austin and Rock were huge I still had the internet and was a part of the "IWC", but the product was good enough that I absolutely loved it and had to tune into Raw and Smackdown each week, and it was a big deal if I missed it. Now there are no stars, stories or feuds that really make me want to tune in and now I just flip back and forth between wrestling and other shows. I don't necessarily dissect everything, but I do compare it to other things I loved in the past and unfortunately, it hasn't been the same in a while.
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:14 PM   #37
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Exactly. People are too afraid to look like marks and just sit there instead of actually enjoying the show.
I don't understand the idea of not getting your money's worth when going to a show. When I went to the Austin-hosted Raw back in March, I marked like a 5 year when Austin, Bret, and Jericho hit the ring. And I booed my lungs out for Cena. I didn't give a shit about about "keeping it cool".

Also, from an entirely different angle, it's hard to cheer and boo for people you just don'r care about. The character development has been atrocious in the WWE since about 2004, the year Eddie and Benoit finally got their due.

It's pretty damn difficult to truly get behind a guy when the minute he starts to garner a reaction, the booking blows their load and pushes straight to the top. Cena is a good example of this. He started getting great reactions with the rapper gimmick. Then they turned him face, had him pandering the crowd more and more, and a year after winning his first singles title, he's given the top belt in the company.

Everything these days seemes so rushed. I like the MITB concept, and it worked the first time when Edge won it. Well, for me atleast. He deserved the win. Guys like Cena, Batista, Swagger, hell, even Punk had no buildup to their win. One minute, they're in the midcard working with midcard guys, then they're all of sudden thrust into the main event and we're expected to all of sudden pop. I don't think it is supposed to work that way.

/rant
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:37 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian Rey View Post
It's pretty damn difficult to truly get behind a guy when the minute he starts to garner a reaction, the booking blows their load and pushes straight to the top. Cena is a good example of this. He started getting great reactions with the rapper gimmick. Then they turned him face, had him pandering the crowd more and more, and a year after winning his first singles title, he's given the top belt in the company.

Everything these days seemes so rushed. I like the MITB concept, and it worked the first time when Edge won it. Well, for me atleast. He deserved the win. Guys like Cena, Batista, Swagger, hell, even Punk had no buildup to their win. One minute, they're in the midcard working with midcard guys, then they're all of sudden thrust into the main event and we're expected to all of sudden pop. I don't think it is supposed to work that way.

/rant
Thank you, somebody who gets the importance of character development. It seems to me like they don't develop characters much at all, then they push them into the main event and THEN start to develop the character and expect us to already love/hate them because they're a top guy now. Jericho is a guy I can buy and actually care about as a main eventer because when guys like Austin, HHH, and Rock were main eventing, he was in the mid card having great feuds and plenty of mic/promo time with the Y2J gimmick. Same thing with guys like Rock, Austin, HHH, even Kane got the same kind of development before being pushed as the top guys. Although Kane was never truly given permanent main event status, I don't think.
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:37 PM   #39
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April 29, 1996, Tokyo Dome: The fans' pops for The Road Warriors (Hawk, Animal, and Power Warrior) and Shinya Hashimoto were really out of this world, especially for Hashimoto, as he would win the IWGP Heavyweight Championship from Nobuhiko Takada.
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:43 PM   #40
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I have been to a number of live events in numerous cities around the US over the past few years - and the crowds are no where near as loud as they used to be back in the 1990's.
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