Bischoff attacks WWE's youth movement

[Loose Cannon]

Eric Bischoff posted the following blog entry on his website…

FACTS HURT!

On the heels of the big “youth push” in WWE during the past several weeks, here are some facts from this week in the business:

“Raw’s demographic ratings among males 18-34 and 18-49 were the lowest in seven weeks.”

“Raw scored a 1.86 rating among males 18-34, which was down from a 2.03 rating last week.”

And during this months conference call to investors Vince McMahon admitted that:

“Basically, we had a lousy quarter,” and then when on to pin the loss of Shawn Michaels, Batista, Triple H, and Undertaker (all 40 + years old) as the reason for the hit to PPV and live event revenue.

Now one could suggest that McMahon is insane enough to be intentionally misleading Wall Street with excuses that are not substantiated by financials that wouldn’t hold up under either SEC or Sarbanes Oxley Act 404 scrutiny, or maybe that he has no idea what he’s talking about despite the massive success of his business model.

Or one could recognize the direct connect between what TV ratings, PPV buy rates, and ticket sales have proven time and time again, as well as what legitimate focus groups conducted by credible media companies in the business of such have clearly identified: the TV audience (including 18-34 males) rate with ESTABLISHED (and yes older) stars!

Admittedly, these facts are kind of dry compared to the subjective opinion of those with their own agenda or the inflamed rhetoric that appeals to those perpetually pre-pubescent, parasitic internet “experts” who neither have any legitimate experience or success as executives in the television or wrestling industry, and the rants of the terminally irrelevant trying desperately to hold on to their last 200 fans.

But they are facts non-the-less.

In my opinion Vince Russo, Dixie Carter and the team at TNA have done a great job of utilizing veteran stars to help elevate some of the young emerging talent in TNA and at the same time gaining awareness and credibility within the media industry.

That’s just my opinion. And my opinion is backed up by facts.

OUCH!

Sorry.

-------------------------------------------------------------------


I am a big Eric Bischoff fan from a business standpoint, but he's lost his fucking mind here if he really believes the shit he's spewing. Has he taken a look at his own company's numbers lately?

The WWE's numbers have been stagnant for a while now, but I think most of you will agree that they are putting on some of the best TV in years

[The Pope]

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon but I think most of you will agree that they are putting on some of the best TV in years

[Swiss Ultimate]

Well he's right, older wrestlers need to establish younger stars but, if he's trying to extrapolate ratings data and narrow it down to one factor than he's just wrong.

There are way too many factors involved in this scenario to derive cause/effect here.

[Xero]

At this point I'm fairly certain he's just working the internet to get a rise. That seems to be his thing lately.

[The Pope]

Originally Posted by Xero At this point I'm fairly certain he's just working the internet to get a rise. That seems to be his thing lately.

I agree with Xero. He's just trying to get something started so some kind of war of words gets started with a WWE guy. (Joey Styles maybe)

[The Jayman]

Monday Night (Internet) Wars

[Londoner]

What aload of shit.

[blak23]

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon Eric Bischoff posted the following blog entry on his website… FACTS HURT! On the heels of the big “youth push” in WWE during the past several weeks, here are some facts from this week in the business: “Raw’s demographic ratings among males 18-34 and 18-49 were the lowest in seven weeks.” “Raw scored a 1.86 rating among males 18-34, which was down from a 2.03 rating last week.” And during this months conference call to investors Vince McMahon admitted that: “Basically, we had a lousy quarter,” and then when on to pin the loss of Shawn Michaels, Batista, Triple H, and Undertaker (all 40 + years old) as the reason for the hit to PPV and live event revenue. Now one could suggest that McMahon is insane enough to be intentionally misleading Wall Street with excuses that are not substantiated by financials that wouldn’t hold up under either SEC or Sarbanes Oxley Act 404 scrutiny, or maybe that he has no idea what he’s talking about despite the massive success of his business model. Or one could recognize the direct connect between what TV ratings, PPV buy rates, and ticket sales have proven time and time again, as well as what legitimate focus groups conducted by credible media companies in the business of such have clearly identified: the TV audience (including 18-34 males) rate with ESTABLISHED (and yes older) stars! Admittedly, these facts are kind of dry compared to the subjective opinion of those with their own agenda or the inflamed rhetoric that appeals to those perpetually pre-pubescent, parasitic internet “experts” who neither have any legitimate experience or success as executives in the television or wrestling industry, and the rants of the terminally irrelevant trying desperately to hold on to their last 200 fans. But they are facts non-the-less. In my opinion Vince Russo, Dixie Carter and the team at TNA have done a great job of utilizing veteran stars to help elevate some of the young emerging talent in TNA and at the same time gaining awareness and credibility within the media industry. That’s just my opinion. And my opinion is backed up by facts. OUCH! Sorry.

this is how desperate TNA is right now

[bigslimjj]

He's just stirring the pot but,there's a thread about this so he must be doing something right.Those are facts that I have seen in other places.18-34 year old males don't really like granny swimsuits and John Cena.They like blood and girls that bend over and put thier asses directly in front of the camera,like in TNA.

Oh please he has been killing TNA since day one. The only reason he is saying this is because he is not on RAW and can't put himself in every scene like he does in TNA.

[bigslimjj]

Originally Posted by Destro 2.0 Oh please he has been killing TNA since day one. The only reason he is saying this is because he is not on RAW and can't put himself in every scene like he does in TNA.

I hate your stupid face Destro.

I mean this guy is afraid of the Youth Movement. I bet he would take the Nasty Boys over The Kings of Wrestling. Eric Bitchoff is afraid to roll with the changes. He needs to realize the old guys he pushes and the young guys he insists on holding back are killing the business.

[Savio]

Originally Posted by Dr.Perfect

Dr. Perfect doesn't remember 2009

[TheZman]

This is the same guy that got rid of a young Chris Jericho to continue recycling Hogan/Nash/ etc etc until WCW went to complete and was brought out.

Originally Posted by TheZman This is the same guy that got rid of a young Chris Jericho to continue recycling Hogan/Nash/ etc etc until WCW went to complete and was brought out.

It just proves he has no idea how to get young guys over. He only knows how to work with established stars because for one. He lets them do whatever the hell he wants. Second he doesn't have to try as hard to get them over. Bischoff to me is very lazy when it comes to booking.

[Savio]

Originally Posted by TheZman This is the same guy that got rid of a young Chris Jericho to continue recycling Hogan/Nash/ etc etc until WCW went to complete and was brought out.

I believe Hogan and Nash were out of WCW when it was bought out.

[Theo Dious]

Originally Posted by Xero At this point I'm fairly certain he's just working the internet to get a rise. That seems to be his thing lately.

Bischoff is a self-confessed pot stirrer. That's all he's ever been and all he knows.

[Xero]

This seems related. From PWInsider:

On the No Name Show today, we talked about Eric Bischoff's claims that he knows what sells to wrestling fans. He has mentioned that focus groups have told him what the fans want to see. We asked anyone listening to put together a chart of how ratings have done since Bischoff came in and had a direct effect on the creative process.



Daniel Burkhardt took us up on the offer and sent this chart. I don't think any commentary is needed.
Date TNA Rating
12/10 1.0
12/17 1.0
1/4 1.5 Monday Special
1/14 1.3
1/21 1.3
1/28 1.4
2/4 1.2
2/11 1.2
2/18 1.2
2/25 1.1
3/4 1.1
3/8 1.0 First Monday Show
3/15 0.8
3/22 0.9
3/29 0.6
4/5 0.9
4/12 0.8
4/19 1.0
4/26 0.5 Raw Draft
5/3 0.8 Last Monday
5/13 0.9
5/20 1.0
5/27 1.0
6/3 0.9
6/10 1.0
6/17 1.0
6/24 1.0
7/1 1.0
7/8 1.1
7/15 1.1
7/22 1.1
7/29 1.2 First show after Hardcore Justice PPV announced
8/5 1.2
8/12 1.2

[TheZman]

Originally Posted by Savior I believe Hogan and Nash were out of WCW when it was bought out.

My main point was he continues to push older established guys over younger and more talented guys.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Originally Posted by Destro 2.0 It just proves he has no idea how to get young guys over. He only knows how to work with established stars because for one. He lets them do whatever the hell he wants. Second he doesn't have to try as hard to get them over. Bischoff to me is very lazy when it comes to booking.

I agree with this. Honestly, how many stars did Bischoff create in WCW. Goldberg. The NWO technically, but that was a group. DDP essentially got himself over.

[Jeritron]

There needs to be a youth movement and new faces pushed hard (meaning being on top, even if it means a brief dip in ratings) if there are to be any established (or older) stars to draw with consistently down the line. This is just common sense, but he seems to overlook that here, like he always has.

[Jeritron]

In other words, you need to jump head first in with a star if you expect them to be "Bischoff approved."
He'd probably have said the same thing about pushing HHH, Batista, Cena, Orton, etc., yet they are now what he'd consider bankable stars.
Same will happen with Sheamus and others. Funny how that works

[Schlomey]

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon Eric Bischoff posted the following blog entry on his website… FACTS HURT! On the heels of the big “youth push” in WWE during the past several weeks, here are some facts from this week in the business: “Raw’s demographic ratings among males 18-34 and 18-49 were the lowest in seven weeks.” “Raw scored a 1.86 rating among males 18-34, which was down from a 2.03 rating last week.” And during this months conference call to investors Vince McMahon admitted that: “Basically, we had a lousy quarter,” and then when on to pin the loss of Shawn Michaels, Batista, Triple H, and Undertaker (all 40 + years old) as the reason for the hit to PPV and live event revenue. Now one could suggest that McMahon is insane enough to be intentionally misleading Wall Street with excuses that are not substantiated by financials that wouldn’t hold up under either SEC or Sarbanes Oxley Act 404 scrutiny, or maybe that he has no idea what he’s talking about despite the massive success of his business model. Or one could recognize the direct connect between what TV ratings, PPV buy rates, and ticket sales have proven time and time again, as well as what legitimate focus groups conducted by credible media companies in the business of such have clearly identified: the TV audience (including 18-34 males) rate with ESTABLISHED (and yes older) stars! Admittedly, these facts are kind of dry compared to the subjective opinion of those with their own agenda or the inflamed rhetoric that appeals to those perpetually pre-pubescent, parasitic internet “experts” who neither have any legitimate experience or success as executives in the television or wrestling industry, and the rants of the terminally irrelevant trying desperately to hold on to their last 200 fans. But they are facts non-the-less. In my opinion Vince Russo, Dixie Carter and the team at TNA have done a great job of utilizing veteran stars to help elevate some of the young emerging talent in TNA and at the same time gaining awareness and credibility within the media industry. That’s just my opinion. And my opinion is backed up by facts. OUCH! Sorry. ------------------------------------------------------------------- I am a big Eric Bischoff fan from a business standpoint, but he's lost his fucking mind here if he really believes the shit he's spewing. Has he taken a look at his own company's numbers lately? The WWE's numbers have been stagnant for a while now, but I think most of you will agree that they are putting on some of the best TV in years

I do NOT agree. Not even hardly.

[DLVH84]

Originally Posted by Savior I believe Hogan and Nash were out of WCW when it was bought out.

Actually, they were both still under contract, but with AOL/Time Warner, so Vince couldn't buy their contracts.

[Kane Knight]

Gee, TNA's direction is so good they might go head to head with WWE on Mond...Oh.

[Volare]

Originally Posted by TL What aload of shit.

[Steveviscious89]

Try not to get too confused here guys. The youth movement refers to WWE's target demographic.....the youth...not the talent. Although it is kind of in line with Bischoff's claim that older stars are needed. And folks, he was not claiming that TNA was doing any better right now. He simply is mentioning that even with WWE's awareness and capacity to produce, they are losing viewship to what he believes is the so called PG era. It is a fact.

[The Pope]

Originally Posted by Savior Dr. Perfect doesn't remember 2009

That is sooooo last year.

[The Pope]

Originally Posted by DLVH84 Actually, they were both still under contract, but with AOL/Time Warner, so Vince couldn't buy their contracts.

And Goldberg too.

[DLVH84]

Originally Posted by Dr.Perfect And Goldberg too.

And was Sting, Luger, The Steiners, etc.

[Damian Rey]

Jeritron's got it right. Eventually, you're going to have to build newer guys to take over for the vets when they decide to hang it up. Sure, you're going to take a bit of a hit with ratings and PPV buys as you're building these guys up, but eventually, if booked and presented properly, you're going to create new stars.

As if he wasn't over already, Wade Barret pinning Jericho cleanly on Raw was a great booking move to continue his rise. Kayfabe wise, Jericho was in the SmackDown! main event and left as WHC. Barret going over pretty much elevated him instantly to that level.

It's called building for the future, and judging by how WCW eventually turned out, Bisch doesn't understand that aspect of the business.

[specialk]

the biggest problem i see with bischoff throwing this all out there, is that he's getting paid by TNA to make TNA a better product, which will (in theory) raise ratings and viewership. so far all it seems like he's doing is trying to slam the WWE and their product to make TNA look good by comparison. that doesn't do anything at all to improve TNA's product.

i'm sorry, whatever bischoff has done for TNA right now, a 16 year old girl that's calling another girl a slut, could do the exact same thing that bischoff is doing, except he's getting paid for it, where the 16 year old will just turn around and get called a slut in 2 weeks for her effort.

[Droford]

Personally I think that the WWE has done a pretty decent job considering the loss of HBK and Batista plus HHH and the Undertaker for the entire summer.

Things could certainly have been worse anyway..

[Damian Rey]

Originally Posted by Droford Personally I think that the WWE has done a pretty decent job considering the loss of HBK and Batista plus HHH and the Undertaker for the entire summer. Things could certainly have been worse anyway..

In terms of creating new main eventers and transition type champions they've done leaps and bounds better than in the past. On Raw alone they've created/are in the process of creating main even mainstays in The Miz, Sheamus, and Wade Barret.

SmackDown! still has CM Punk waiting for another title run, and it's not impossible to think Swagger will get elevated again some time soon.

WWE finally came to the realization that the future is just as important as the present. TNA has yet to figure this part out.

[Aguakate]

Bischoff is starting to make me think he's not the great mind most people believe him to be...I'm starting to think that with the whole NWO thing, he just struck gold, and not really thought out the whole thing and put it together carefully...

...I'm starting to think Bischoff is overrated. He hasn't done much with TNA, and he keeps making ridiculous statements.

[Haze]

I remember a period in the WWF where the ratings weren't all that great, but produced some of the established names that we are familiar with today. Guys like HBK, Bret Hart, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, and HHH were all relatively unknowns given the ball and turned out to be huge stars regardless of what the ratings showed at the time.

I am usually able to agree with Bischoff on alot of the things he says, but in this case he is just wrong.

[Fox]

So what I'm getting from this is Eric Bischoff hates kids.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Steveviscious89 Try not to get too confused here guys. The youth movement refers to WWE's target demographic.....the youth...not the talent. Although it is kind of in line with Bischoff's claim that older stars are needed. And folks, he was not claiming that TNA was doing any better right now. He simply is mentioning that even with WWE's awareness and capacity to produce, they are losing viewship to what he believes is the so called PG era. It is a fact.

Actually, he was praising the direction TNA was taking, which pretty much means he's saying they are doing better.

in this capacity.

He also says they're gaining recognition and media attention, and I'm not sure that's true.

He may have had a point with WWE's viewership--like three years ago. Ratings have flattened out and even recovered some. The push to youth isn't 7 weeks old, which is probably why people are confusing it with "young stars." Lowest rating with 18-34s in seven weeks doesn't mean as much as a longterm trend.

What else? The correlation between ratings and buyrates? Bullshit. WWE's seen improvement in the latter as of the last quarterly report (not this one), even though the ratings had not flattened out yet. Correlation between ratings and asses in seats? See above. They're charging more and getting more viewers and while that may be unsustainable, it blows a hole in Eric's bitchfest.

Now, I know I'm just one of those parasitic internet fans with no experience, but then, that's why I rarely try and actually dictate what should be done. However, as Eric put it before, "Facts are facts" and "numbers are numbers." Those are something anyone can deal in, if they have a modicum of intelligence. And while I can't express WWE's success or failure in the form of a hard formula, neither can Bisch, Vince, or anyone else on the planet. Every single episode had a multitude of factors, and a quarter is full of many variables. He can't tie a direct correlation to one move, even an integral move, and neither can Vince.

Is Vince lying or delusional? Probably not. Is he right? I'd personally say "certainly not." It seems unlikely, my position aside. But on the other hand, is Eric right? Well, almost certainly not.

Numbers don't lie, but people with a narrative to tell will use them to advance the narrative. Vince is trying to advance the PG Era, so he's going to spin the numbers to reflect a narrative in which old wrestlers are losing their appeal. This is probably partially true, but more likely mostly not.

Eric is defending the direction of his company and slamming the competition, and probably mostly just shit stirring. He is pushing the narrative, with the same numbers, that WWE's PG Era is a failure. This is false, because it's not a failure even if it's in a decline. There's probably some truth to the fact that kiddy wrestling is damaging the ratings, but that's been happening for a while. It's not recent or related to a current push. Meanwhile, WWE is making a shitload of money of merch and such. Is Bischoff lying? No, but he's grinding an ax or two.

I don't want tp praise WWE too much, because I don't like their direction. We all know (or should) by now that the PG Era isn't aimed at us. SURPRISE! It's only been going on for years now. It's aimed at kids, the same as more and more entertainment is. why? Kids buy all the toys, the related media, the T-Shirts and armbands. Well, their parents do, but that kind of proves the kids are more relevent than the parents are. More and more, kids are controlling the wallet.

This takes us away from wrestling, and that sucks. It takes us away from some of the tackiest shit from the Attitude Era, too, and that's not so bad. But that doesn't make Bisch right, unless he's writing from 2007 or so, when WWE was in a real decline and TNA was still technically a growth product.

I didn't want to have to expend energy on Eric's troll attempted, but hey, if people are going to discuss it....