I just want to talk about Dolph Ziggler for a bit.

[captaincharismark]

Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla What I like about Ziggler's matches is that his offense almost always makes sense. He seems like he goes in with a strategy, and he adjusts that strategy according to how things pan out. His name is hokey, but his execution certainly is not.

While I do agree he seems to use strategy in his matches, I think that makes it more bland and boring. When was the last time a great wrestler needed a strategy to get a match over? Plus, I've always admired the wrestlers that can improv their work and be innovative. Being creative in the ring shouldn't be over analyzed. It does add some structure to the matches, but in the end I can pretend they aren't boring. His name is another example of WWE creative not having a clue, as they have never come up with a decent name. Not his fault there.

I would agree that his mic work has been sub-par barring a few occasions, and I think that might even lend to why I like the "FOLLOW THAT!" line. It's two simple words that are hard to jumble and pretty easy to deliver...kinda like another catch phrase that used to be accompanied by a crotch chop.

Yeah, but it's also a clever attempt on WWE's part to hide his flaws on the mic. Using two words accomplishes that. However, it's a very cheesy way of doing it. I do like that phrase, cause it draws more heat for him and gives him an attitude. Seems to me though that he could be more comfortable on the mic. Even the worst guys on the mic could deliver two words. To be considered a top guy you have to deliver big time on the mic and have the ability to keep up anyone. All I'm saying is he tends to rely on Vickie too much to draw heat for him.

What would be even more surprising than THAT would be if you actually added anything to this discussion without making a stupid, non-comical attempt at a personal attack, but that's probably just me too.

Glad I'm not the only one who's noticed that fact. KK tends to enter a discussion like this and try and personally attack someone. Ok if you want to be a smartass, but not great if you don't add one insight into the topic. How lame is it that he feels the need to take personal shots over actual conversation?

I know that I never personally used the word "great" in this thread until this very sentence, but from a wrestling standpoint, Ziggler is definitely one of the best in the WWE right now. I've explained why I enjoy his matches in this very post, so I won't reiterate just yet. Also, I was unaware that having Vickie Guerrero as a manager automatically meant that you sucked as an entertainer. Edge would like to have a word with you.

I can understand ppl liking him using some strategy as a form of psychology. but it bores me. Rather than making his matches better, to me they are less watchable. I find myself doing anything but paying attention after the first few minutes he's in the ring. To some extent, I think that's why some ppl don't like him. Short attention spans(like mine)and over thought matches equals disaster. You have to be aware of the fans when you plan a match. It can be logical without being boring to the point of turning the fans away.

In Edge's case, he was the "ultimate opportunist" so him using Vickie when she was SD and RAW GM made sense for his character. In Ziggler's case, he has Vickie as a way of getting him over on the mic. Not exactly a proper comparison, though I can see why you might make that analogy.

As far as the "FOLLOW THAT!" line being laughable, you may be forgetting that professional wrestling has heels and faces, and in the role of an arrogant heel (as Dolph Ziggler is portraying right now), it is not uncommon to make ridiculous claims to paint oneself in a superior light. It's the simple dynamics of pro wrestling, bud. If Ziggler was a FACE yelling that, it would be a little silly. He's not, though.

I've never forgotten wrestling has heels and faces. Always interesting when someone accuses me of not knowing wrestling b/c of a different opinion. I realize saying, "Follow That" is a way of getting him over as an arrogant heel. Although it accomplishes that, it's a cheesy way of doing so. And certainly doesn't improve his character any. In the end, if he doesn't improve, he'll be yet another bland guy stuck in the mid card...

I don't see Ziggler approaching Flair or Cena's numbers either, and I just feel I should state that quite clearly now before anyone tries to put any words in my mouth. What I will say is that Ziggler's new found intensity has him more poised for kayfabe success than ever before in today's WWE.

There's a reason you don't see Ziggler approaching Cena or Flair. That's b/c both Cena and Flair understand what it takes to entertain ppl more properly. Until Ziggler can fully understand how to evolve his character and not be repetitive, he'll always be one dimensional. Can he successful? Yes, but only if he can adapt. If not, I could easily see him being released somewhere down the line.