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Old 11-08-2014, 07:37 PM   #481
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I feel like I understand a lot more now. Have a good one you two.

And thank you again TheRogerer.
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Old 11-08-2014, 11:34 PM   #482
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Um...
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Old 11-09-2014, 01:49 AM   #483
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wtf
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Old 11-09-2014, 01:52 AM   #484
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"Cultural Marxism" sounds like something made up by a Neo-Nazi
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Old 11-09-2014, 01:53 AM   #485
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Funny you say that.
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Old 11-09-2014, 04:59 AM   #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post
I wanna ask; what would the line be in your mind where something goes from pretending to being?

GG funded a feminist game jam. GG raised money for anti-bullying awareness. GG put women forward when anti-GG kept telling them to stand down and be quiet (fancy that). GG showcased the true diversity of the gaming community when anti-GG kept pushing their 'gamers are all white sexist' narrative. Every journalist who has had equal communication with both sides almost always notes how GG treated them great while anti-GG were shockingly harsh (the latest case being YTer David Packman).

At what point, to you, does this illusion of being a good cause become a good cause? Is there any action GG can take, for you, that would finally separate it from it's complicated origins (it was not about harassing a women, as somebody who seen this unfold live, but I'm done arguing this info)? Why can't you measure the good over the bad? Is it that you don't care about the lives that were improved because of us? Cancer research, female developers, people of color speaking out; are these not things you find impressive?
I acknowledge those actions coming out of GG, and I'm not trying to discredit them, but they came at a time when GG had expanded so much that practically everyone was involved one way or another. I've taken flak for my views before but I've said that charity is often used as a modern day version of buying indulgences from the church. I won't discredit it though, just say as I did before that by this point it's really hard to define what GG even is any more.

My original GG quarrel on rajah started because I was drawn into it with the first post. It started with him posting the 'Five Guys' video, ranting about how sick he was that this whore was getting away with it and that somebody should do something. I don't particularly want to brand him with the big misogynist iron, but throughout the following weeks, when he wasn't just reposting labyrinthian composite images of twitter, he would let some really weird things about women slip out. Nobody's simple.

So I already came into this thread with my dukes up. What really posted me over the top was the link to your twitter, seeing you directly message femfreq with a pompous challenge of telling her that her suffering was relativistic and you should see how [my ebonies] have it. Whatever you think of Anita, you know how many message a second she already gets, and I felt as bad for her as I did for you getting swept up in that sort of thing. I don't think everyone sits around plotting evil, I think we get swept up in things. I don't post on twitter any more because I think it's inherently a horrible medium, and it touched me somewhat. Bloody hell, I felt uncomfortable when DTTS posted a weird article about me in the music forum, so I can only imagine what it feels like for Anita. This is the way of the world, it's fine and it's not that bad, but you did this and you labelled it #gamergate, you refer to them as 'we' and I think you should unplug from that collective. I've always felt that way, it gives people false confidence. I've apologised for throwing a few closed fists your way - at the end of the day I figure that TPWW is a closed environment so to a degree roughhousing is within context. We don't have the whole world piling on

About actual gamergate now...

I think it's too big and doesn't make sense any more. The actions of bombarding advertisers to get them to pull from gamasutra/gawker is fine in isolation, but ultimately silly too. In a way it's a sort of endorsement of advertising funded coverage by trying to police that field into something that suits your goals. However advertising funded press is the number 1 thing that's holding coverage back from being what it could be.

It reminds me of the '"'lefts'"' No To Page 3 campaign in a way. They think they're dealing a blow to feminism by taking the topless women out of newspapers, instead I think it's just a tokenistic strike agains the working class, and ultimately it says "We'll accept this paper when that's taken out!" It's a fucking Murdoch rag! The topless women are the only honest thing in the paper, they're very strict about their implant rules. Everything else in it is dodgy mass media spin, and by asking them to remove Page 3 they're endorsing them as an otherwise legitimate medium.

What was the point of that? It's hard to have a movement (especially after that pizza) that knows what it wants. Like I said, taking all negative aspects out of gamergate, if I was going to be an activist about the industry you'd more likely see me writing to publishers, not crying for coverage. We don't need to change the press at all, we don't even need to destroy them because we can ignore them.

That's without talking about how absolutely boring the constant stream of porny women in games are.
Last edited by The Rogerer; 11-09-2014 at 05:42 AM.
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Old 11-09-2014, 01:07 PM   #487
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My tweets toward Anita are my tweets toward her. She's a grown woman. When you're twitter you're speaking to the world, and sometimes the world talks back. I'm sorry but she knows what she's doing and doesn't need your protection. She can block me whenever she wants.
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Old 11-09-2014, 01:27 PM   #488
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Sorry I'll get off my steed. As Marcus Aurelius would say the victim loses nothing, it's the perp that compromises themself. Throwing shade at me doesn't change how you were acting. It wasn't good for you either.
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Old 11-09-2014, 01:32 PM   #489
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I don't feel I've said anything out of turn. I don't need to delete anything and you're welcome to post tweets that you feel are out of line. I will defend each of them or concede if I see it's kinda wild.
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Old 11-09-2014, 01:33 PM   #490
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We're getting into a realm of implicating me with the harassment, and if you wanna take it there I hope you're ready to discuss that.
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Old 11-09-2014, 03:02 PM   #491
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It doesn't matter if it's harassment or not. It's not a good thing to be a part of. You wouldn't have done it if everyone else wasn't doing it.
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Old 11-09-2014, 03:02 PM   #492
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Neither is making feminist critiques of video-games.
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Old 11-09-2014, 03:04 PM   #493
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Quote:
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Neither is making feminist critiques of video-games.
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Old 11-09-2014, 03:06 PM   #494
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Every time someone tells someone else that they shouldn't exercise free speech because it isn't good for them, I am reminded how self-serving people can be.
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Old 11-09-2014, 03:10 PM   #495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTTS View Post
Every time someone tells someone else that they shouldn't exercise free speech because it isn't good for them, I am reminded how self-serving people can be.
This is an automated response to a DTTS post. Stop talking, you're being emotional. Just shut up and come back when you're speaking sense.
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Old 11-09-2014, 03:11 PM   #496
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ok.
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Old 11-09-2014, 03:15 PM   #497
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Kalyx, I'm not labelling you, I'm just trying to work out what was going through your head when you wrote your "ebonies and latinas" thing. Because it was as pompous as it gets. Forget her for a moment, everyone has to answer for their own actions lest they just be devolving into a game of tit for tat. Do you not think you were getting a little bit swept up in the crowd there? It's public behaviour. I regret everything in my entire life, I'm more worried if you don't think those tweets seem silly on reflection.
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Old 11-09-2014, 03:21 PM   #498
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Tweets are silly by design. It is hard to put meaningful rational arguments into 140 characters.
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Old 11-09-2014, 04:25 PM   #499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rogerer View Post
It doesn't matter if it's harassment or not. It's not a good thing to be a part of. You wouldn't have done it if everyone else wasn't doing it.
Nah buddy you took it to this point and I'd like you to follow through. And it damn sure matters if it's harassment or not because if you're trying to tell me I was 'being mean'; fuck that get over it.

And I've tweeted to Anita way before GamerGate. You wanna take a look at my tweets to build a case - take a look at my tweets. Let's do this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rogerer View Post
Do you not think you were getting a little bit swept up in the crowd there? It's public behaviour. I regret everything in my entire life, I'm more worried if you don't think those tweets seem silly on reflection.
Nope, I stand by it.

These Bay area hipster kids are talking about how dangerous their lives are, all over non-credible threats. It is incomparable to what minority women deal with on a day to day. Not one credible threat. Nobody hurt. Ever. I was reacting to that NYC "street harassment" vid going around. I was vexed at the time, I'll admit that much.
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Old 11-09-2014, 04:29 PM   #500
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O/T What was your take on the NYC Street Harassment video and the ensuing backlash?
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Old 11-09-2014, 04:31 PM   #501
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I started watching it and thought some of the guys were well within the standards just saying hello to a pretty woman, most of the later ones freaked me out a bit.
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Old 11-09-2014, 04:49 PM   #502
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Quote:
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O/T What was your take on the NYC Street Harassment video and the ensuing backlash?
Before I was annoyed I found it hilarious. New York is a funny place.
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Old 11-09-2014, 04:55 PM   #503
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I've only been there twice. Reminded me of Bourbon street in New Orleans. Feels very different from Chicago or any "city" in Florida.
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Old 11-09-2014, 05:06 PM   #504
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I'd love for the "actress" to attempt that same experiment at our Aventura Mall.
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Old 11-09-2014, 05:21 PM   #505
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I suspect I need more context. Anyway, out for a bit.
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Old 11-09-2014, 05:22 PM   #506
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Kalyx doing his droford term, revelling in the suffering of others. How can he do the 'your suffering is relative' schtick and not just continue to talking about starving orphans in Africa. What do your ebonies and latinas think of those?
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Old 11-09-2014, 05:33 PM   #507
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Starving orphans =/= Mean tweets
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Old 11-09-2014, 05:34 PM   #508
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But suffering is relative? Your ebonies and latinas live in USA #1, they have a world of opportunity ahead of them.
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Old 11-09-2014, 05:38 PM   #509
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The part of the video that really stood out was the weirdo walking next to the girl for like 4 minutes straight.

The jerk who kept asking if he was too ugly kind of pissed me off.

What was interesting to me was how the video was then decried as racist by SJWs in need of a new witch to burn. Because, since a lot of people with little education and low-paying jobs check a box that says "not white", it's racist to show the problems inherent among uneducated and low-paying adult men.

Which brings me back to my focus of reforming education in America and growing the economy. Men with high-school educations, college defrees and career options don't stand on the street getting mad at women for not knowing they have huge cocks.
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Old 11-09-2014, 06:41 PM   #510
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But suffering is relative? Your ebonies and latinas live in USA #1, they have a world of opportunity ahead of them.
They do.

Ya know, what you call suffering just may not be what I would call suffering. This is the secret power of professional victims, or really anybody who thinks being offended is something they should be protected from: They get to turn the knob on what is and isn't an offense. When you play with words, terms, and definitions you can also widen the scope of what the public should respond to.

One woman's 'suffering' of "street harassment" is another woman's Tuesday at South Beach. We can't possibly account for how people take things a certain way (a major point of contention with SJWs now that I think about it).

But anyway yeah; you've used 'suffering' and even mentioned actual suffering (famine) to highlight what? That all suffering is equal, so long as you apply the word to whatever? You don't believe that.

Anita's just wallowing in despair with her self promotion on Comedy Central.
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Old 11-09-2014, 06:43 PM   #511
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I'm thinking the guy who walked next to her was simply going that direction. Only the people recording knows for sure and they're certainly interested in making it look as creepy as possible.
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Old 11-10-2014, 10:21 PM   #512
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Is gamer-gate still telling bitches they be bitches?
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Old 11-11-2014, 03:52 AM   #513
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really hate that this thread is still here. keep telling myself I wont go back in here but days roll on and here it is. tempting me point how activism over gaming is one of the biggest wastes in energy imaginable. if only this effort went to things that would be constructive we may actually make some progress as a nation.

The adult toy market is serious business.
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Old 11-11-2014, 06:38 AM   #514
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really hate that this thread is still here. keep telling myself I wont go back in here but days roll on and here it is. tempting me point how activism over gaming is one of the biggest wastes in energy imaginable. if only this effort went to things that would be constructive we may actually make some progress as a nation.

The adult toy market is serious business.
#Dildogate

MAKE IT HAPPEN!
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Old 11-11-2014, 06:49 AM   #515
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#Dildogate

MAKE IT HAPPEN!
least dildos actually fuck you
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Old 11-11-2014, 06:53 AM   #516
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We should Gorilla Glue dildos to the hoods of our vehicles in support of the movement.

Spread awareness (and appendages) one person at a time.
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Old 11-11-2014, 07:17 AM   #517
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I'm thinking the guy who walked next to her was simply going that direction. Only the people recording knows for sure and they're certainly interested in making it look as creepy as possible.
Come off it.
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Old 11-11-2014, 07:29 AM   #518
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I started watching it and thought some of the guys were well within the standards just saying hello to a pretty woman, most of the later ones freaked me out a bit.
To be honest, I have a problem with men deciding what counts as street harassment or not. Really it's the person having "hello" shouted at them randomly in the street who decides whether they feel threatened by that or not. Then, if you take part in that behaviour, it's up to the individual to decide whether they care that they may be making someone feel uncomfortable.

I personally always cringe inwardly when I see some bloke shout at a woman in the street or passive-aggressively comment, I've seen loudmouth friends do it probably not realise they're part of a pattern. I also know my wife feels it is vaguely threatening when some guy calls out to her when she's walking or running. It's obviously not exactly India or anything, but there is a spectrum of behaviour. Realistically, no man has to deal with it on a daily basis so it's not really for us to say what is acceptable or not, moreso to decide whether it's really necessary for us to randomly say "hello" to a stranger we happen to find attractive.
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Old 11-11-2014, 08:03 AM   #519
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On one hand, Kalyx actually talks about legit issues with game journalism and that makes him sound like he's different from the bottom feeders in GG.

Then, he uses SJW as an insult (you know my stance on that) and tends to mansplain things.

It's really disheartening, and I feel he's better than that.
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Old 11-11-2014, 10:59 AM   #520
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There's no such thing as 'mansplaining', and even so it's just bizarre that a dude is calling me on that. It's just another facet of tone policing that, yes, SJWs like to use to control the conversation.

Have you considered that I'm a guy with legit points, and the negatives you pointed out are only things you've been told to seek out by the very people who would disagree with me? Consider that these things aren't even refutations of whatever I believe. How I use SJW as a term? "Mansplaining"? It isn't discussion or refutation to point that out, it's an easy out. It 100% leads to, "Well I'm not talking to you or taking you seriously because ________."

I feel you are better than that, honestly.
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