RAW - B Show - OFFICIAL THREAD 1.2.17

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Noid I'm actually on-board with Reigns as a double-champion. There is no way that Roman Reigns is ever going to be the beloved babyface Vince wants him to be until he turns heel and has a very cool run as the top guy on the brand, but if you're going to push him, at least push him unironically. Since he was "annointed," Reigns has been a part of some pretty farcical stuff. He won the 2015 Royal Rumble in an abysmal Rumble, even if you knew what they were trying to do. But then he got his ass kicked by Brock, he won the belt back in a tournament, lost it a few seconds later, won it back, lost it via ridiculous Rumble antics, then won it back and lost it again. Reigns has not been booked well. They really went balls-in with him two years ago, but since then it has all been angle this, angle that. He will get booed wherever he goes, but as long as you put faces against him, there is someone to cheer. Reigns can be a heel on an almost psychic level. But at least try to make him look like an ass-kicking god. That match with Owens should be complete destruction. The "Reigns can really work guys, see" approach hasn't earned him any adoration from the fans. This is especially urgent if you are building him towards Goldberg.

I think Reigns was a victim of some bad timing. The whole Rumble 2015 thing was purely a result of smarks hijacking the show because their bearded hero wasn't going over. I don't think that was bad booking, other than maybe they should have put the Rumble in another city. But who could predict that would happen?

The 2016 stuff was just an issue with injuries and needing to move pieces around to get to new matches. If you look at his run with the title post Mania he was looking strong, then the wellness thing derailed things plus they needed to split the titles for the brand split. I think if he goes over Owens strong and gets a real run he'll be even more popular than he already is. There will still be boos, but those people will booo anything, you know you have their money no matter what is done.

[Blonde Moment]

Originally Posted by The CyNick I think Reigns was a victim of some bad timing. The whole Rumble 2015 thing was purely a result of smarks hijacking the show because their bearded hero wasn't going over. I don't think that was bad booking, other than maybe they should have put the Rumble in another city. But who could predict that would happen? The 2016 stuff was just an issue with injuries and needing to move pieces around to get to new matches. If you look at his run with the title post Mania he was looking strong, then the wellness thing derailed things plus they needed to split the titles for the brand split. I think if he goes over Owens strong and gets a real run he'll be even more popular than he already is. There will still be boos, but those people will booo anything, you know you have their money no matter what is done.

The problem was Vince made a bad call and Reigns paid the price for it just as the talent usually does when the promoter makes a bad call. As for going over Owens strong what difference does that make? According to you Owens wasn't champiion material to begin with and therefore Reigns goingover strong over a "nobody" is irrelevant. Might as well put Ellsworth in Owens spot by your reckoning because they are of the same caliber.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Fastway The problem was Vince made a bad call and Reigns paid the price for it just as the talent usually does when the promoter makes a bad call. As for going over Owens strong what difference does that make? According to you Owens wasn't champiion material to begin with and therefore Reigns goingover strong over a "nobody" is irrelevant. Might as well put Ellsworth in Owens spot by your reckoning because they are of the same caliber.

I wouldn't say Owens is a nobody, I think he's a good hand. I just mean that at some point a Babyface should overcome the odds and get the job done. This is Reigns' chance to do that, and then carry the momentum to Mania and likely beyond.

The promoter made the right call, it's just the fans decided to hijack the show. Daniel Bryan was at best an injury prone star at that point, and at worst someone who's career was very limited. WWE had already the spent the better part of the year leading up to 30 pushing Bryan. To spend that same time and energy on a guy who was even more broken down would have been terrible use of valuable TV time. Vince made the right call to pick the next guy in line. But the fans in the arena that night weren't smart enough to understand the call that was being made. Financial results will tell you WWE made the right call with Reigns.

[BigCrippyZ]

Originally Posted by The CyNick But who could predict that would happen?

Anyone with half a brain would've seen it coming from a mile away as soon as Bryan was put in the Rumble match in December. You don't take your #1 or #2 babyface (second maybe to Cena) at the time, who is coming back from injury, put him in the Rumble and have him lose the Rumble because you have some new jacked up toy (Reigns) who you (incorrectly) believe will be a bigger star. At the very least, if Bryan doesn't win the Rumble, you find a way to put him in the WM main event that year. This whole mistake was easily forseeable and Reigns' failure lies strictly with Vince McMahon and his own arrogance and/or delusions.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by BigCrippyZ Anyone with half a brain would've seen it coming from a mile away as soon as Bryan was put in the Rumble match in December. You don't take your #1 or #2 babyface (second maybe to Cena) at the time, who is coming back from injury, put him in the Rumble and have him lose the Rumble because you have some new jacked up toy (Reigns) who you (incorrectly) believe will be a bigger star. At the very least, if Bryan doesn't win the Rumble, you find a way to put him in the WM main event that year. This whole mistake was easily forseeable and Reigns' failure lies strictly with Vince McMahon and his own arrogance and/or delusions.

The arrogance that made him the most successful person in his industry? Yeah, probably shouldn't trust that guy's opinion.

Check out my previous post about Bryan's heath. It will address your lack of understanding of the situation.

[BigCrippyZ]

Originally Posted by The CyNick The arrogance that made him the most successful person in his industry? Yeah, probably shouldn't trust that guy's opinion.

What industry is that exactly? Television? Or is it movies? Or is it the entertainment industry? Regardless, he's not the most successful person in any of those industries.

It's certainly not professional wrestling. Vince isn't in the professional wrestling industry. He routinely insists so himself.

Nor is it "sports entertainment" because that's not an actual industry. It's a term he created so he could claim industry superiority while being able to differentiate himself from the competitors in his actual industry (pro wrestling) and attempt to be taken seriously by those who actually are leaders in the television, movie and entertainment industries he so desperately wants to be a part of.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by BigCrippyZ What industry is that exactly? Television? Or is it movies? Or is it the entertainment industry? Regardless, he's not the most successful person in any of those industries. It's certainly not professional wrestling. Vince isn't in the professional wrestling industry. He routinely insists so himself. Nor is it "sports entertainment" because that's not an actual industry. It's a term he created so he could claim industry superiority while being able to differentiate himself from the competitors in his actual industry (pro wrestling) and attempt to be taken seriously by those who actually are leaders in the television, movie and entertainment industries he so desperately wants to be a part of.

He's had multiple shows in the top ten of cable ratings every week for nearly 20 years. How many people in the TV industry can claim that? Keep swinging kid.

[BigCrippyZ]

Originally Posted by The CyNick He's had multiple shows in the top ten of cable ratings every week for nearly 20 years. How many people in the TV industry can claim that? Keep swinging kid.

I can think of at least 10 off the top of my head, but I actually work daily in film, music and television and advise numerous execs, creators, producers and talent.

You said he is "the most successful person in his industry." He's not, at least not in the television production/creation side. In pro wrestling, sure, he's top dog, but like he says, he's not in the pro wrestling industry.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by BigCrippyZ I can think of at least 10 off the top of my head, but I actually work daily in film, music and television and advise numerous execs, creators, producers and talent. You said he is "the most successful person in his industry." He's not, at least not in the television production/creation side. In pro wrestling, sure, he's top dog, but like he says, he's not in the pro wrestling industry.

You can name ten episodic storyline driven shows that have been top ten in prime time cable for 20 plus years? Curious to see the list.

Also even if you do have a list, it's still impressive, and Vince would be considered very successful at producing content.

His industry is sports entertainment, for which he has been King for decades. He also competes in the broader entertainment industry, of which he's not the King, but he's very very successful at it.