Better Wrestler #28 *HoF ROUND*

[Destor]

Originally Posted by Maluco Did Undertaker ever have a storyline as well done as Savage/Hogan? Did he ever have an iconic promo like Savages at Tuesday in Texas when Elizabeth gets hurt? Was Taker ever involved in something that moved as many fans as Savage/Elizabeth did, and did Undertaker ever draw at a peak level like Savage did? Big questions on all of those for me and it's seriously close. Savages big moments were much greater and much more iconic than Takers and his style has been much more influential too.

Savage wasnt a big draw and Mania has risen to hieghts previously unimaginable with a huge assist from the streak. So thats not even comparable. If ypure no.1 criteria is the draw then you must vote Taker. Hands down.

Story lines? If youre only asking for one HBMvTaker spanned 2 years and vastly superior matches. The streak, and its ending, will echo through generations far louder than any moment savage ever had with Liz.

[Maluco]

Originally Posted by Destor Story lines? If youre only asking for one HBMvTaker spanned 2 years and vastly superior matches. The streak, and its ending, will echo through generations far louder than any moment savage ever had with Liz.

Honestly, would argue this point too. I don't think those Mania matches had a particularly good storyline or build. They were good matches, and the matches themselves, particularly the last one, told a good story, but Mega Powers was THE big story in the company for a full year and was built so well. Savage played his role brilliantly in it too.

Savage was definitely the better performer outside of the ring. He could elicit real emotion and people like Hogan have gone on record as saying that he brought another level out of them.

Undertaker couldn't tell a story or elicit an emotional response like Savage could, not even close.

[KIRA]

[QUOTE=Undertaker couldn't tell a story or elicit an emotional response like Savage could, not even close.[/QUOTE]



Savage was a ticking time bomb of emotions

Taker was otherworldly, his character did not lend itself to emotion too well (outside of anger) he has always been presented as stoic

Even his human personas were kinda laid back.

[Destor]

Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan I think you're giving Taker way more credit for the streak than you should. He was booked to win matches. It really had nothing to do with him. If you wanna praise him for the matches in the streak, that's one thing. But "he was booked to win matches" doesn't really speak to how good he was as a wrestler at all.

STDesqu post and im not even going to entertain this logic.

Originally Posted by Fastway Going to have to think about this one... Savages' run in the WWf was cut short due to Vince feeling he was too old and his Wcw stuff was hindered by Hogan's influence Taker has had a long career full of memorable moments but i feel that aside from maybe his match with Punk, Taker really should have had his last match with Micheals and the longer his "remains" remain in the WWe the more his legacy will be tarnished.

Savages WCW run was hindered by him being washed up, youre trying really hard to act like savage is immune to failure. He peaked and never got hot again in any major way. Anything else is just making excuses.

Originally Posted by Frank Drebin Look, I love Taker. But lets be honest here: his entire gimmick consisted of a sweet fucking entrance and no-selling. He was a gimmick change away from being Oz / Kevin Nash. Still a good career. Some might even say great. Nash had his moments. I hate saying this about him, but Taker was the right look for the right gimmick at the right time. When you ask people on the street what person comes to their mind when you say wrestling, #1 is gonna be Hogan. #2 is gonna be Macho Man for anyone who didn't exclusively grow up with Cena on top. Macho Man is synonymous with wrestling. The look. The hair. The robes. The glasses. The music. The personality. The athleticism. His name is MACHO. Macho Man ran a program that at the end made grown men cry. You get chills watching it to this day if you don't shed a lil tear yourself. FFS, Jay Lethal imitates him and the crowd goes insane. They go nuts for it because Macho Man Randy Savage was one of the greatest of all time. Macho Man = wrestling. We love it. DIG IT!

what? No. Austin. Rock. Even Flair. I think you think everyone grew up when you did.

Originally Posted by Maluco Honestly, would argue this point too. I don't think those Mania matches had a particularly good storyline or build. They were good matches, and the matches themselves, particularly the last one, told a good story, but Mega Powers was THE big story in the company for a full year and was built so well. Savage played his role brilliantly in it too. Savage was definitely the better performer outside of the ring. He could elicit real emotion and people like Hogan have gone on record as saying that he brought another level out of them. Undertaker couldn't tell a story or elicit an emotional response like Savage could, not even close.

I think all these things would completely depend on how old you are. Maybe you werent as a effected by them but a generation of fans were. But to act like people have a flat emotionless reaction to taker is just weird. He is in a very small group that contains Hogan, Rock, Austin, HBM and yes Savage that connected to a huge ammount of people in a unique and profound way. Hes not..... i dunno, artificially over. Savage had a better promo. Sure. Illl give that.

[#1-norm-fan]

Originally Posted by Destor STDesqu post and im not even going to entertain this logic.

The logic that booking shouldn't factor in to whether someone is a better wrestler than another or not?

How crazy.

[Blonde Moment]

Originally Posted by Destor Savages WCW run was hindered by him being washed up, youre trying really hard to act like savage is immune to failure. He peaked and never got hot again in any major way. Anything else is just making excuses.

Everyone agrees that Bret Hart wasn't washed up in Wcw but screwed over by shitty booking and power plays by those that had the boss's ear that same reasoning can be said of Savage in WcW. Savage was not onely fighting Hogan for a spot in Wcw but he was fighting for the one bright spot in his life that Hogan was interfering in as well, Miss Elizabeth.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Originally Posted by Destor STDesqu post and im not even going to entertain this logic. Savages WCW run was hindered by him being washed up, youre trying really hard to act like savage is immune to failure. He peaked and never got hot again in any major way. Anything else is just making excuses. what? No. Austin. Rock. Even Flair. I think you think everyone grew up when you did. I think all these things would completely depend on how old you are. Maybe you werent as a effected by them but a generation of fans were. But to act like people have a flat emotionless reaction to taker is just weird. He is in a very small group that contains Hogan, Rock, Austin, HBM and yes Savage that connected to a huge ammount of people in a unique and profound way. Hes not..... i dunno, artificially over. Savage had a better promo. Sure. Illl give that.

You make very good points, but I do think Savage eeks out Taker. In this particular scenario, it really does come down to "whatever floats your boat" as they are both icons.

Taker's bad mania matches are usually due to the fact that he was wrestling complete duds.

Savage after mid 1998 (and yes some rough patches in between) was certainly washed up as fuck, and he kept showing up all roided and desperate.

Taker however has the benefit of working whatever schedule he pleases. Savage didn't, and he was completely unhinged.

Fact is, he was excellent from 1975-1997 (yeah with some dross along the way and the same could be said for Taker's run) with lots of iconic moments and matches. He was performing year round in those times as well. Taker even since 2004 or 2005 kind of just shows up when he wants. Before the one and done mania gigs it's not like he was a full timer.
I just don't think longevity comes into play.

But to say people don't care about Taker is a bit nuts (which we both agree on). He is the "phenom" through and through. This is a very interesting/awesome poll. Very difficult decision.

It's unfortunate that while their paths did cross, they never got to work with one another in their primes. Fuck me that would have been electic.