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Old 02-03-2017, 08:29 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
Charlotte really is miles ahead of all those biatches though. But it's not fair, as she is a Flair... to be fair to Flair.
Part of it is also due to the constant air-time she gets which has helped her improve a lot in the ring and in promo skills. RAW is pretty much how the women's division was handled pre-brand split with almost all the focus being on just the champ vs challenger du jour feuds.

Nikki Bella and AJ Lee showed the same jumps in improvement when they had a lot of time as champ or as the focus of a division.
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Old 02-03-2017, 09:38 PM   #42
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But they didn't do dat moonsault
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Old 02-03-2017, 11:53 PM   #43
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Nope fuck this thread. Bayley is great. Boo Slik! Boo!
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Old 02-04-2017, 12:22 AM   #44
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Charlotte will go down as the goat
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Old 02-04-2017, 12:28 AM   #45
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Quote:
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Nope fuck this thread. Bayley is great. Boo Slik! Boo!
Knew this was coming.
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Old 02-04-2017, 12:38 AM   #46
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Good.
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Old 02-04-2017, 12:41 AM   #47
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Quote:
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Nope fuck this thread. Bayley is great. Boo Slik! Boo!
EXACTLY. Fuck slik and all the other Batley haters!

And may I point out that she should NOT have been the last of the Four Horsewomen to be in a title feud and win the title (which she will @WM33 -- kiss my ass, haters), although it probably owes to two injuries right before she was originally supposed to be called up twice. But I shall be patient, for I know her journey will culminate in probably a 4-5 month title run after WM 33.
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Old 02-04-2017, 12:41 AM   #48
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Can't stand Bailey either. Didn't like her in NXT and she hasn't impressed me any on Raw. I get that she's supposed to be this super fan turned superstar but She comes off like a female Eugene only not retarded. Charlotte, Sasha, Becky, and Alexa are all miles ahead of her.
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Old 02-04-2017, 12:52 AM   #49
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I bet Bayley does suck good. Probably hugs it after she's done.
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Old 02-04-2017, 12:55 AM   #50
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I must have been black out drunk but I kindof remember Bayley getting the pop of the night at NXT Brooklyn. Everybody on their feet celebrating the match of the fucking year? I was drunk but I wasn't black out drunk.

So, I repeat fuck off.
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Old 02-04-2017, 01:06 AM   #51
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STD and Wishbone get it.👍
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Old 02-04-2017, 02:03 AM   #52
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My 85 year old grandpa who recently ordered the network and loves NXT and Cruiserweights because "those guys actually fight" hates Bayley. I guess her gimmick doesn't translate to the senior demographics.
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Old 02-04-2017, 02:04 AM   #53
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Whoa, Bayley might be overrated, but there is no way Alexa Bliss is leaps and bounds ahead of her. Let's just get that ironed out.
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Old 02-04-2017, 02:05 AM   #54
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She also sends mixed messages. On one hand, women in WWE are supposed to be sexualized, but on the other, she acts like a child.
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Old 02-04-2017, 02:07 AM   #55
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Am I the only one that doesn't think Bayley is actually being built for a RAW Women's Title run? I can honestly see them abandoning ship and maybe sticking her in a "women's mid-card" feud with Sasha Banks. I think Nia Jax is going to be higher priority, despite being far less skilled, and ultimately, I think Emmalina becomes a star in the division. I can see Dana Brooke turning on Charlotte and backing up Emmalina in a televised title match, and then Charlotte is the babyface chasing. I don't know when that will happen, but I think her credibility is going to be used to segue her into the top babyface position in the division, because Vince feels that Sasha is "too breakable" and Bayley "too annoying."
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Old 02-04-2017, 02:15 AM   #56
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She also sends mixed messages. On one hand, women in WWE are supposed to be sexualized, but on the other, she acts like a child.
Isn't that her whole gimmick?
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Old 02-04-2017, 02:21 AM   #57
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Yeah, but I can see that being why a lot of older people think it is weird and annoying.
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Old 02-04-2017, 02:21 AM   #58
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Her whole "aww shucks" and "I deserve to be here" thing is pretty bland.
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Old 02-04-2017, 02:34 AM   #59
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She has sloppy looking tits, a saggy ass and a face that deserves to be smashed with a frying pan. Get that digesting slug off my television!
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Old 02-04-2017, 02:36 AM   #60
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Old 02-04-2017, 02:41 AM   #61
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Yuck, Bayley is a 2/10 at best
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Old 02-04-2017, 03:12 AM   #62
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Quote:
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Am I the only one that doesn't think Bayley is actually being built for a RAW Women's Title run? I can honestly see them abandoning ship and maybe sticking her in a "women's mid-card" feud with Sasha Banks. I think Nia Jax is going to be higher priority, despite being far less skilled, and ultimately, I think Emmalina becomes a star in the division. I can see Dana Brooke turning on Charlotte and backing up Emmalina in a televised title match, and then Charlotte is the babyface chasing. I don't know when that will happen, but I think her credibility is going to be used to segue her into the top babyface position in the division, because Vince feels that Sasha is "too breakable" and Bayley "too annoying."
Charlotte sucks as a face, dude. She's perfect as the "I'm better than you" heel, but her face run in NXT and her run in PCB were both really bad in my opinion. Besides that she's literally the top heel in the women's division and one of the top heels in the company period. I seriously doubt that they'll turn her face anytime soon, especially when the only options to replace her are Nia and Emmalina.

On the topic of Emmalina, that ship has sailed. Emma's dead in the water and to think otherwise is just foolish. Her momentum died a long time ago, and bringing her in as a generic "model" type is just going to ruin it further. I'm sorry but in the same way that many of you seem unable to buy Bayley as a legit threat I feel the same way about Emma. Her image has been damaged way too much to ever make her of any real worth at this point, and giving her this gimmick is not going to do her any favors as it'll just make her a copycat of what made the Diva's division so bland.

Finally I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that many older fans just don't get it, and that's kinda the point. Wrestling as it is now is not meant for older fans. As many here have attested you're all in or around your 30s. WWE just isn't meant for you guys. I'm in my mid 20s, but I'm also very much into nerdy things and I work with children on almost a daily basis so for me this stuff still clicks at times. For you though I imagine it's like trying to watch modern cartoons while having the mentality of a mainstream "full grown adult." You don't get it because you're just "too old," and I don't mean that as an insult but just as a general observation.
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Old 02-04-2017, 04:18 AM   #63
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You're probably right. But the problem is that, as 30-somethings in the 2010's, we've seen plenty of good "kids"/"family friendly" movies and TV shows that are capable of appealing to adults. And it's not that hard to accomplish in wrestling.

Wrestling in its most basic form is appealing to kids. You don't have to put in any work. It's violence, loud noises, paint-by-numbers comic book-style good vs. bad stories, and bright lights. The work is done. If you actually write compelling storylines and make the characters interesting, you won't alienate the kids. You'll keep them all while ALSO drawing in adults. But WWE seems to be content with not putting in the work to do that. Partially because they've got a small but passionate audience of adults who are willing to stick with it to the bitter end because they grew up addicted to this form of entertainment and can't flip over to WCW anymore.
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Old 02-04-2017, 05:25 AM   #64
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You're probably right. But the problem is that, as 30-somethings in the 2010's, we've seen plenty of good "kids"/"family friendly" movies and TV shows that are capable of appealing to adults. And it's not that hard to accomplish in wrestling.

Wrestling in its most basic form is appealing to kids. You don't have to put in any work. It's violence, loud noises, paint-by-numbers comic book-style good vs. bad stories, and bright lights. The work is done. If you actually write compelling storylines and make the characters interesting, you won't alienate the kids. You'll keep them all while ALSO drawing in adults. But WWE seems to be content with not putting in the work to do that. Partially because they've got a small but passionate audience of adults who are willing to stick with it to the bitter end because they grew up addicted to this form of entertainment and can't flip over to WCW anymore.
I'd agree completely with a lot of what you just said. However, it feels like you guys are putting more emphasis on the characters being the issue when in reality it's the storytelling and presentation that are the problem. Bayley's character could work just fine if she was booked right, put in compelling stories, and actually portrayed in the right manner. Hell, even someone like Roman Reigns could be good if you did that. A great example is Bray Wyatt who as a character and talent is great, but because of the way WWE uses him he's utter shit. It has nothing to do with his character but is all on WWE for not understanding or caring how he should be used. I've said it in the past and I'll say it again, I honestly believe you could build a star (in relative terms) out of anyone. Had Zack Ryder been handled right he would still be useful today. Not world champion material, but he could have easily been one of the top mid-card babyfaces in the company. My point is that the way you guys make it sound you're saying that characters like Bayley aren't worth keeping around or pushing, and that somehow by getting them out of the way you'd improve the product. But that's not the case. You could have nothing but characters that appealed to you on the roster and it'd still be shit if WWE didn't fix the issue with the writing and booking. That stuff is the key. I'd be willing to bet money that if they did it right even you'd be cheering on Bayley or even Roman Reigns.
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Old 02-04-2017, 05:40 AM   #65
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I think she was great in NXT but has been bad in WWE. Like her matches were really good in NXT, I think... but for some reason they have mostly been bad in WWE, imo. I don't know why. Maybe whoever "books" the spots in the matches in WWE sucks or something.

Like that one Bayley vs. Sasha Banks match at an NXT TakeOver a while ago was considered to be "match of the year" by a bunch of people. Shasha Banks's matches have also not been that good in WWE imo.
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Old 02-04-2017, 11:55 AM   #66
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I'd agree completely with a lot of what you just said. However, it feels like you guys are putting more emphasis on the characters being the issue when in reality it's the storytelling and presentation that are the problem. Bayley's character could work just fine if she was booked right, put in compelling stories, and actually portrayed in the right manner. Hell, even someone like Roman Reigns could be good if you did that. A great example is Bray Wyatt who as a character and talent is great, but because of the way WWE uses him he's utter shit. It has nothing to do with his character but is all on WWE for not understanding or caring how he should be used. I've said it in the past and I'll say it again, I honestly believe you could build a star (in relative terms) out of anyone. Had Zack Ryder been handled right he would still be useful today. Not world champion material, but he could have easily been one of the top mid-card babyfaces in the company. My point is that the way you guys make it sound you're saying that characters like Bayley aren't worth keeping around or pushing, and that somehow by getting them out of the way you'd improve the product. But that's not the case. You could have nothing but characters that appealed to you on the roster and it'd still be shit if WWE didn't fix the issue with the writing and booking. That stuff is the key. I'd be willing to bet money that if they did it right even you'd be cheering on Bayley or even Roman Reigns.
I don't think anyone is saying she shouldn't be around and I don't think she needs to be "fixed.". Her presentation is actually good as she is being presented towards kids. I don't think she has been booked poorly at all as she appeals to a demographic. The problem is that gimmick doesn't come across as a credible threat to the championship, nor does her actual abilities. She just isn't very good in the ring or the mic at this point in time. Maybe she will get better in time but should be no where near the main event and championship.
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Old 02-04-2017, 11:59 AM   #67
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I think she was great in NXT but has been bad in WWE. Like her matches were really good in NXT, I think... but for some reason they have mostly been bad in WWE, imo. I don't know why. Maybe whoever "books" the spots in the matches in WWE sucks or something.

Like that one Bayley vs. Sasha Banks match at an NXT TakeOver a while ago was considered to be "match of the year" by a bunch of people. Shasha Banks's matches have also not been that good in WWE imo.
Maybe this is true. I don't watch NXT, I have seen like half an episode. If she was having great matches there but can't translate to the main show something is wrong with the WWE. A good wrestler should be able to put on a good match anywhere any time, I believe she is a "wwe" trained wrestler so she knows exactly how they want her to work so she should have a leg up. So far I see an awkward non athlete trying to wrassle.
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Old 02-04-2017, 06:41 PM   #68
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In response to Stickman:

First and foremost her presentation is most certainly not good. She's not getting anywhere near the treatment she did in NXT. Instead they've thrust her onto the main roster and just keep telling everyone "look at Bayley! She's from NXT and is great! Cheer for her!" Of course this issue applies to 99.9% of the call-ups these days. WWE just seems to think that all of their fans watch NXT and thus think that they can skip all the character building and just portray these characters "as is" to the masses. If you tell Joe Schmoe "this girl is great" and immediately thrust her into the main event without context of course he's gonna reject it as you have perfectly shown.

WWE needs to stop treating NXT as a part of the main roster's canon. I get why they do it, and for people who watch it regularly it's cool, but the fact of the matter is the majority of people don't watch NXT, and to present these wrestlers as if people should already know who they are is just ignorant as all hell. Bring back vignettes. Hell, tell some stories over again if you have to on the main roster. The idea that you can't do so is just stupid when in reality the vast majority of fans would never have seen said stories in the first place. Of course none of that matters if the writing is still shit which is the case on the main roster, but it'd be a start.

Another issue is that Bayley definitely HAS been hindered on the main roster, as have many other NXT alumni. As you pointed out yourself that too is a WWE problem and not an issue with the talent. I'm not sure what's going on on the main roster that's causing this, but almost everyone has been drastically hindered in their in-ring work once making the jump from NXT to RAW or Smackdown. Even Sasha and Charlotte have had this issue.
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Old 02-04-2017, 06:50 PM   #69
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I get what you are saying and agree. I do miss the days when they allowed characters to develop. It amazes me how they have hree long hours for Raw and don't do vignettes or really make you invested in a talent. I think they have done more with Bayley than a lot of other, better, talent. They've pretty much pointed out on the main show she was a wrestling fan her whole life and has always wanted to be a wwe wreslter. They portrayed her kind of as a nerdy, super fan who is just happy to be there and kids can look up to her cuz she made it, and she is a nice person who hugs it out. That is way way more than they have done for almost anybody.
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Old 02-04-2017, 07:17 PM   #70
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I get what you are saying and agree. I do miss the days when they allowed characters to develop. It amazes me how they have hree long hours for Raw and don't do vignettes or really make you invested in a talent. I think they have done more with Bayley than a lot of other, better, talent. They've pretty much pointed out on the main show she was a wrestling fan her whole life and has always wanted to be a wwe wreslter. They portrayed her kind of as a nerdy, super fan who is just happy to be there and kids can look up to her cuz she made it, and she is a nice person who hugs it out. That is way way more than they have done for almost anybody.
Fair point, but pointing out her character traits really means nothing without actually seeing them develop organically. If you were reading a book or watching a movie would a single page or scene listing off a character's traits really be enough? I mean if we just got a scene with a narrator saying "this is Tony Stark. He is an alcoholic who lost his parents and once escaped terrorists who used his weapons to cause harm which lead to him being Iron Man" would you really be invested? It works far better in the movies because we actually get to see all those things actually happening. Exposition really isn't a substitute for actual storytelling. Still you're right about them doing more for her than many, but you can see how doing just that small amount has helped her quite a bit. She gets pretty good reactions all things considered, and given the crowds we often see I'd say she's doing pretty well on the merchandise front as well. Now imagine if she'd had an organic rise ala Daniel Bryan. She's not as talented as Bryan mind you and I'd never claim such, but she could easily reach far greater heights with that same sort of storytelling, as could anyone for that matter.
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Old 02-04-2017, 08:01 PM   #71
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Hated Bayley before. But she is growing on me but that is because she is better than Sasha.
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Old 02-04-2017, 08:02 PM   #72
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Not fair to compare anyone to Charlotte though. Of course she is better. Honestly, SD and Raw have it soo right with their champions. Bliss is the best, only by a little, on SD and Charlotte is just miles better than everyone on both rosters.
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Old 02-04-2017, 09:37 PM   #73
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I don't get this massive boner everyone has for Charlotte. I mean she's damn good, don't get me wrong, but she's not nearly as far ahead of everyone as y'all keep saying she is. You act like she's Stone Cold standing next to Roman Reigns or something and that's not even remotely accurate. Plenty of the women on the roster are extremely talented right now, especially when compared to previous generations of WWE's women's talent.
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Old 02-04-2017, 09:42 PM   #74
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I don't get this massive boner everyone has for Charlotte. I mean she's damn good, don't get me wrong, but she's not nearly as far ahead of everyone as y'all keep saying she is. You act like she's Stone Cold standing next to Roman Reigns or something and that's not even remotely accurate. Plenty of the women on the roster are extremely talented right now, especially when compared to previous generations of WWE's women's talent.
People just want to act like she's the second coming of Trish Stratus just because she's already held the title 4x and learned how to cut amazing promos from daddy dearest, but it's just not true.
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Old 02-04-2017, 09:56 PM   #75
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People just want to act like she's the second coming of Trish Stratus just because she's already held the title 4x and learned how to cut amazing promos from daddy dearest, but it's just not true.
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Old 02-04-2017, 09:56 PM   #76
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All female face characters are dumb and redundant. 'Ive trained so hard and now I finally made it"

Feud with charolette is dumb too, "you are a fan of wrestling, what a loser"
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Old 02-04-2017, 10:03 PM   #77
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They should go back to Diva pillow fights. The kind of stuff they did when people cared about Women's wrestling.
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Old 02-04-2017, 10:13 PM   #78
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I don't get this massive boner everyone has for Charlotte. I mean she's damn good, don't get me wrong, but she's not nearly as far ahead of everyone as y'all keep saying she is. You act like she's Stone Cold standing next to Roman Reigns or something and that's not even remotely accurate. Plenty of the women on the roster are extremely talented right now, especially when compared to previous generations of WWE's women's talent.
She is like Seth Rollins and everyone else is X Pac.
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Old 02-04-2017, 10:21 PM   #79
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Sable was a better wrestler than Bayley too. See below:


Now you crossed a line. Sable was shit always has been shit and further more

Ohhhhhhhhh fuccc.......
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Old 02-04-2017, 10:36 PM   #80
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She is like Seth Rollins and everyone else is X Pac.
Nah, she's really not. You keep on telling yourself that though. Maybe if you believe hard enough it'll come true.
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