TPWW Forums  

Go Back   TPWW Forums > w r e s t l i n g > wrestling forum
Reload this Page WWE releases Enzo Amore
Register Members List Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-17-2018, 04:20 PM   #1
#1-norm-fan
Resident drug enabler
 
#1-norm-fan's Avatar
 
Posts: 45,473
#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
My crazy, homeless lady down the street analogy still applies here. We can take out the ghosts. If she runs up and down the block saying she was raped by John Cena, I think it's fair to be more skeptical than you would if a more level-headed, trustworthy human being said the same. And that's the same with literally any crime.

And at no point should "Statistically, in other cases, the guy is usually guilty" come in to play. And without a doubt, going out of your way to make it clear that John Cena could definitely have raped that crazy homeless lady because "statistically" the accused is usually guilty is really fucked. Without calling him guilty, you're absolutely tying a stigma of guilt to him based on nothing but an accusation that can be made by anyone at any time.
#1-norm-fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2018, 04:39 PM   #2
Mr. Nerfect
 
Posts: 61,634
Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
My crazy, homeless lady down the street analogy still applies here. We can take out the ghosts. If she runs up and down the block saying she was raped by John Cena, I think it's fair to be more skeptical than you would if a more level-headed, trustworthy human being said the same. And that's the same with literally any crime.

And at no point should "Statistically, in other cases, the guy is usually guilty" come in to play. And without a doubt, going out of your way to make it clear that John Cena could definitely have raped that crazy homeless lady because "statistically" the accused is usually guilty is really fucked. Without calling him guilty, you're absolutely tying a stigma of guilt to him based on nothing but an accusation that can be made by anyone at any time.
I think a healthy amount of skepticism with both can be applied. More or less are trivial in that situation. If it came down to the word of a reasonable and sane person against and unreasonable and insane one, of course you'd probably start with the reasonable person's. I don't see it as relevant to this case. If a choir girl said that Enzo raped her, would your stance really change? Should it change? I think we disagree here, because I think both should be taken seriously and don't see them on a versus screen. And if they both accused Enzo, then I think that looks worse for Enzo.

And why don't more crazies accuse John Cena of rape? Or Randy Orton? Or Shawn Michaels? Or Shane McMahon? I'm not saying if they did it would be true, but why doesn't that happen? Probably largely because it doesn't actually happen often at all, is disadvantageous to the party making the false claim (and a crime), and it's actually really hard to accuse someone of something if they don't have the means and opportunity, have an alibi, there are other witnesses, etc. I'm not making that as a legal argument -- of course the onus is not on the accused -- but just as a common sense one.
"John Cena raped me."
"When and where?"
"Um, Saturday at 9pm."
"He was on the other side of the world then." Easily ruled out.

When you say that quote shouldn't come into play, in what context are you referring? Because I think it is absolutely relevant when discussing it with people who claim "Pfft, she's lying. Enzo is a Superstar he can fuck anyone he wants," or when people claim that false allegations are rampant. Or when they claim it actually gives a woman power.

If John Cena was with the homeless lady, had sex with the homeless lady, did drugs with the homeless lady, the lady was admitted to the hospital with head injuries, etc., then yeah, I'd say the same thing in a conversation about it if people were like "Nah, impossible." I wouldn't go emailing strangers about it or drag it into every conversation. And given the woman's status and possible mental health, having "consensual sex" with a woman in that state could be questionable too. It's not as clean an analogy as you are making it out to be.

The thing is #fan those accusations aren't made by anyone at anytime. That's the whole point of pointing out that these things usually have something to them, dude. They're usually very serious things because people drag their names through the mud because "Look, this part here doesn't look true." We're going in circles now.

You're tying a stigma to her because of her mental health or whatever. I'm tying a stigma to Enzo because it's possible he raped a girl. We've both "I'm not saying she's definitely lying" or "I'm not saying he definitely did it." Let's just agree we're both assholes without the full knowledge of what happened and are projecting our own biases onto a situation that is dark and messy with no winner, whichever way you slice it.
Mr. Nerfect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2018, 04:48 PM   #3
#1-norm-fan
Resident drug enabler
 
#1-norm-fan's Avatar
 
Posts: 45,473
#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
You're tying a stigma to her because of her mental health or whatever. I'm tying a stigma to Enzo because it's possible he raped a girl.
There's a huge, enormous, universe-sized difference between "tying a stigma" to someone based on their own history/credibility/personality/addictions/mental health and tying a stigma to someone because they were simply accused of something. I think that idea that there's no difference is where the problem with this whole conversation lies.
#1-norm-fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2018, 04:52 PM   #4
Mr. Nerfect
 
Posts: 61,634
Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
There's a huge, enormous, universe-sized difference between "tying a stigma" to someone based on their own history/credibility/personality/addictions/mental health and tying a stigma to someone because they were simply accused of something. I think that idea that there's no difference is where the problem with this whole conversation lies.
Accused of something that people don't normally accuse people of because then their history/credibility/personality/addictions/mental health are dragged through the mud. I think the oversimplification is disingenuous and you were premature to take aim at her.
Mr. Nerfect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2018, 04:57 PM   #5
#1-norm-fan
Resident drug enabler
 
#1-norm-fan's Avatar
 
Posts: 45,473
#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)#1-norm-fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Accused of something that people don't normally accuse people of because then their history/credibility/personality/addictions/mental health are dragged through the mud. I think the oversimplification is disingenuous and you were premature to take aim at her.
Just because people don't normally do it doesn't mean they didn't lie about it here.

See what I did there.
#1-norm-fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Hybrid Mode Hybrid Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:22 AM.

Forums Home - TPWW - Archive - Top

Powered by vBulletin®