The Dress Code

[Rob]

Originally Posted by KayfabeMan Also, I don't think Rob is just talking about the dress code here - but it does factor into the whole situation. I happen to agree with him on the fact that if TNA or any other group could offer some of these guys the pay that they are getting there - they'd walk. Some of them I know for a fact. I can't speak for Rob, but I think he meant they'd leave due to the overall picture, with this type of thing contributing to the situation.

Yeah that's pretty much it. Guys are miserable in the WWE locker room right now. If TNA could afford to pay guys what they are worth and had good prime time TV, there would be a rush of wrestlers looking to get out of their WWE deals.

Originally Posted by Aussie_Skier as far as being indepedent contractors...i'm sure your wrong on that. they are employees.

No. YOU are wrong. They are independent contractors. They have absolutely no health benefits, sick pay, pensions or paid holiday. You can believe what you like dude but I have heard hundreds of interviews confirming my arguement as well as talked with 3 wrestlers (one of which was a former WWF tag and IC champ and another who worked there) who confirm it.

[The CyNick]

Beyond all that, when the WWE was hot, there were no dress codes, and business was great. In the early 90s, business was horrible, and again there were no dress codes. In the 80s, business was great, and again no dress codes. So obviously dressing up has no impact on business, so whats the point?

I basically agree that Vince should be able to tell the guys what to do, and if they dont like it, they can find another line of work. But at the same time, its clear it has no impact on anything, so why make guys who are already miserable more unhappy.

This is just another by-product of HHH being a mark for Flair's run in the 80s and trying to emulate him. If you notice, WWE has slowly become a carbon copy of Mid-Atlantic, just look at the crowd sizes.

[Aussie Skier]

Originally Posted by The CyNick Beyond all that, when the WWE was hot, there were no dress codes, and business was great. In the early 90s, business was horrible, and again there were no dress codes. In the 80s, business was great, and again no dress codes. So obviously dressing up has no impact on business, so whats the point? I basically agree that Vince should be able to tell the guys what to do, and if they dont like it, they can find another line of work. But at the same time, its clear it has no impact on anything, so why make guys who are already miserable more unhappy. This is just another by-product of HHH being a mark for Flair's run in the 80s and trying to emulate him. If you notice, WWE has slowly become a carbon copy of Mid-Atlantic, just look at the crowd sizes.

well...for 1, people never broke Kayfabe. most fans thought that wrestling was, if not real, at least partle real. Now, times are changing I suppose

[Rob]

Originally Posted by Aussie_Skier well...for 1, people never broke Kayfabe. most fans thought that wrestling was, if not real, at least partle real. Now, times are changing I suppose

You must have known some incredibly stupid wrestling fans then. Not one single person over the age of 10 I know ever thought that wrestling was real.

[Aussie Skier]

Originally Posted by Rob You must have known some incredibly stupid wrestling fans then. Not one single person over the age of 10 I know ever thought that wrestling was real.

well...when i was 12, i knew it was fake.
however, i didnt know that the wrestlers were friends. i didnt know that lex luger and yokozuna would actually talk to each other considering they had just been in a wrestling match.

rob, it doesnt come down to stupidity, it comes doesn to naivity

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Aussie_Skier well...when i was 12, i knew it was fake. however, i didnt know that the wrestlers were friends. i didnt know that lex luger and yokozuna would actually talk to each other considering they had just been in a wrestling match. rob, it doesnt come down to stupidity, it comes doesn to naivity

Even if you want to argue that most fans (kids at the time) in the 80s thought wrestling was real, you surely cant argue that any significant number of fans thought it was real in the late 90s. And my whole point was that they didn't have a dress code then, and business was going banana!

[BigDaddyCool]

Originally Posted by Rob No. YOU are wrong. They are independent contractors. They have absolutely no health benefits, sick pay, pensions or paid holiday. You can believe what you like dude but I have heard hundreds of interviews confirming my arguement as well as talked with 3 wrestlers (one of which was a former WWF tag and IC champ and another who worked there) who confirm it.

No my friend, you are wrong. Legally, they are employees.

An independent contractor is a person who contracts to do something for another, but whose physical conduct in the performance of the undertaking is not subject to the other's control or right of control.

I know this, because we just went over it in Business Law. Basically what that is saying is that legally an independent contract does not have a set schedule and can do his/her job their own way, and in their own time.

Being that WWE wrestlers are told to be at the arena by a certain time, when their match is scheduled, what they can and cannot do during a match, and a whole host of other controls put on them, they cannot legally be defined as independent contractors. They are simply employees.

Being that they don't have health benifits and what not, suggest they should get a union because they are getting royally screwed by this deal.

[Rob]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool No my friend, you are wrong. Legally, they are employees. An independent contractor is a person who contracts to do something for another, but whose physical conduct in the performance of the undertaking is not subject to the other's control or right of control. I know this, because we just went over it in Business Law. Basically what that is saying is that legally an independent contract does not have a set schedule and can do his/her job their own way, and in their own time. Being that WWE wrestlers are told to be at the arena by a certain time, when their match is scheduled, what they can and cannot do during a match, and a whole host of other controls put on them, they cannot legally be defined as independent contractors. They are simply employees. Being that they don't have health benifits and what not, suggest they should get a union because they are getting royally screwed by this deal.

That is my arguement to why they should be employees. When you are told where to be and how to do your job, you are an employee. WWE however hires "independent contractors" to get away from benefit issues. If you don't believe me then email Dave Meltzer, Bryan Alvarez or someone with the know in the business or email a wrestler who has worked for WWE or WCW and they will tell you the same thing.

[BigDaddyCool]

Originally Posted by Rob That is my arguement to why they should be employees. When you are told where to be and how to do your job, you are an employee. WWE however hires "independent contractors" to get away from benefit issues. If you don't believe me then email Dave Meltzer, Bryan Alvarez or someone with the know in the business or email a wrestler who has worked for WWE or WCW and they will tell you the same thing.

But they aren't independent contractors, that is my point. At least not legally. And since independent contractor is a legal definition, wrestlers are just employees. So, they need to get a good lawyer or something and get this sorted out for themselves.

[Rob]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool But they aren't independent contractors, that is my point. At least not legally. And since independent contractor is a legal definition, wrestlers are just employees. So, they need to get a good lawyer or something and get this sorted out for themselves.

I agree but the minute they do, bye bye job.