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Old 08-16-2005, 12:19 PM   #1
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Is Jericho getting the shit treatment again?*Spoilers*
I'm a huge Jericho fan so hopefully this does not come off as too bias. Going into his feud with Cena everything looked great up to a certain point. Then last week rolls around and Jericho is wrestling a referee and this week he is fighting in a handicap match against the same guy he is facing on Sunday.

My question is WTF? Have Jericho kick some credible persons ass. Don't put him in a handicap match and have him fucking lose because him, the IC champ and a "manager type" couldn't beat one person. Jericho has been made to look like a complete wuss at a time when he is the second biggest heel on the show (next to HBK).

It just reminds me of his days as champ. I don't want to say it is politics, but it sure stinks.

Turn Up The Good.

Turn Down The Suck.
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Old 08-16-2005, 12:30 PM   #2
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I agree, I just can't take Jericho seriously at the moment, and the WWE knows that, which is why they made HBK V Hogan as the headliner for Summerslam.Which once again proves the point that whenever HHH isn't the champ, the WWE title doesn't headline the PPV's on Raw anymore. No doubt it stinks of politics.
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Old 08-16-2005, 12:46 PM   #3
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Wow. Booking one of the most over people in the business as strong looks really bad when you put it that way.

Hey, let's make the guy who's leaving after SS look strong instead, because that will SURELY be good business.

You should book the WWE.
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Old 08-16-2005, 12:48 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TL
I agree, I just can't take Jericho seriously at the moment, and the WWE knows that, which is why they made HBK V Hogan as the headliner for Summerslam.Which once again proves the point that whenever HHH isn't the champ, the WWE title doesn't headline the PPV's on Raw anymore. No doubt it stinks of politics.
Hogan's ego > HHH's ego

Thus, Hogan will always get top billing no matter what.

Even Hulk Hogan vs. Tom Bosley would get top billing over Ric Flair circa 1987 vs. Kurt Angle circa 2001.
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Old 08-16-2005, 12:51 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingofOldSchool
Hogan's ego > HHH's ego

Thus, Hogan will always get top billing no matter what.

Even Hulk Hogan vs. Tom Bosley would get top billing over Ric Flair circa 1987 vs. Kurt Angle circa 2001.
This still benefits Hunter though.

Now, I'm not crying conspiracy here, but the fact is, Triple H doesn't have the title once more, and once more, the title is second fiddle.
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Old 08-16-2005, 12:53 PM   #6
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Sorry to E-thug it there.
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Old 08-16-2005, 12:55 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
This still benefits Hunter though.

Now, I'm not crying conspiracy here, but the fact is, Triple H doesn't have the title once more, and once more, the title is second fiddle.
Yeah, but on the other hand even when Triple H had the World Title and/or was wrestling for the titleon the same big show Hogan was wrestling on, Hogan's match was still promoted more than the Triple H match.

See: WM X-8 and WM X-9
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Old 08-16-2005, 12:59 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingofOldSchool
Yeah, but on the other hand even when Triple H had the World Title and/or was wrestling for the titleon the same big show Hogan was wrestling on, Hogan's match was still promoted more than the Triple H match.

See: WM X-8 and WM X-9
Yeah, but they're not currently competing for ad space, since Hogan's current fifteen minutes will be over by his debut in October.
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Old 08-16-2005, 01:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Yeah, but they're not currently competing for ad space, since Hogan's current fifteen minutes will be over by his debut in October.
Don't hold your breath Knighty...
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Old 08-16-2005, 01:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingofOldSchool
Hogan's ego > HHH's ego

Thus, Hogan will always get top billing no matter what.

Even Hulk Hogan vs. Tom Bosley would get top billing over Ric Flair circa 1987 vs. Kurt Angle circa 2001.
But as KK said, HHH isn't competing with Hogan. Hogan is just doing HHH's job for when HHH is gone.My point wasn't about HHH/Hogan competing with each other anyway, it was about HHH's power backstage in the main event when he isn't the champ, which we all know about anyway, i just felt like this was the right time to bring it up again.
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Old 08-16-2005, 01:10 PM   #11
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I never thought for a single second that Cena would drop the title to Jericho besides maybe in that 3-Way match with them and Christian in the midst of the Draft Lottery. Even then, it wasn't Jericho's credibility to made me think he could possibly win, it was just the fact that there were two champs on one show.

While Jericho's crusierweight character in WCW is amongst my favorite of all time, I'm slowly coming to terms with the fact that he will never.....eeeeeeeeever....be that awesome again.
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Old 08-16-2005, 01:20 PM   #12
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But this is how WWE builds its feuds. This is how its been done since the turn of the Attitude era.

Not that I'm saying its good and that it works, I'm just saying that Jericho is being treated no different than any other wrestler who has challenged for the world title (who isn't expected to win) has been treated for the last 7 years. This is how its done.
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Old 08-16-2005, 01:25 PM   #13
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Hey be happy he just not outright jobbing to cena yet.
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Old 08-16-2005, 01:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingofOldSchool
Don't hold your breath Knighty...
\
Hogan's not going to last here. He's only around to promote his reality show, and once that novelty wears off and the sheep start wo wake...
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Old 08-16-2005, 01:36 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavo Classic
But this is how WWE builds its feuds. This is how its been done since the turn of the Attitude era.

Not that I'm saying its good and that it works, I'm just saying that Jericho is being treated no different than any other wrestler who has challenged for the world title (who isn't expected to win) has been treated for the last 7 years. This is how its done.
In fact, it IS probably time for a bit of a changeup in how they book things.

However, while Cena is hot, it'd be a stupid idea.

And I'm not too bothered by Hogan right now, since HBK is being brilliant. I'm not excited about Hogan, but Michaels has made me not change the channel several times.

The major difference between the Attitude Era (When this booking worked) and now (When it doesn't) is that you had a ton of upper mid-carders who COULD be a champion. They almost never would be, but the threat, the notion of powerful competition made it really seem like anything could happen in the WWF, rather than it feeling like it was scripted. It still was, and we knew it, but nobody cared.

Nowadays, if someone gets midcard cred, they get Squashed. On Smackdown, it's the Undertaker. On Raw, it's less direct, but they get buried below shit segments and goofy gimmicks. If Big Vis is higher on the card then you, you're an utter joke. Still, Raw has a slightly better sitch, with Kane and Snitsky and a few others who could make the champ look good.
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Old 08-16-2005, 02:33 PM   #16
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I dunno that was a sick chairshot. Shutup you whiney ass bitches.
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Old 08-16-2005, 02:55 PM   #17
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I dunno that was a sick chairshot. Shutup you whiney ass bitches.
Good Point.

That was the only good thing Jericho has done in the last 2 weeks of build up.
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Old 08-16-2005, 03:13 PM   #18
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Yeah, but this isn't about Jericho. This angle is about Cena, one of the biggest guys in wrestling right now.
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Old 08-16-2005, 03:30 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Yeah, but this isn't about Jericho. This angle is about Cena, one of the biggest guys in wrestling right now.
True enough. We couldn't have him beating a strong contender for his belt.

On the bright side he may sell a few more albums though.
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Old 08-16-2005, 04:39 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gooch
True enough. We couldn't have him beating a strong contender for his belt.

On the bright side he may sell a few more albums though.
Strong Contender? Now you're coming off as a fanboy.

Jericho hasn't been booked strong in ages, so what makes you think he's a strong contender? He's a de facto #1 contender, less because he's good and more because there's fuck all out there for competition.
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Old 08-16-2005, 04:48 PM   #21
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Guys, I love Jericho, hell I just pulled out some WCW/nWo Revenge for the 64 just so I could relive some of his glory days...but that's it. Jericho couldn't be made to look like a legit threat to Cena in the few months they had to work with. Did even one person here think that Jericho was going to win at SummerSlam, even before the Unforgiven poster come out? No. It is time for everyon here to get a few things in their head...ONE) Chris Jericho will never be a "true" Main Eventer. TWO) Christian does not have World Champ writen all over him. THREE) Paul London will ALWAYS be a Cruserweight Champ/Jobber

Why is it so fucking hard for you guys to realise shit like this? What's worse is that 99& of you take a certain level of pride in knowing you're not a mark...WRONG...if your freaking out because Jericho loses or so and so doesn't have a belt you are a mark. Either grow up and realised this, or just became really jadded, but I don't give a fuck who wins a match anymore nor do I give two shits who is walking around with a huge ass belt right now. If you truly love wrestling for wrestling shouldn't you just enjoy god matches no matter what the out come? If not go jerk off to some Diva Search bullshit because fantasising that you get to fuck one of them is about as likly as your other fantasy of all Cruiserweight everywhere ever gets a turn on the WWE Title-Go-Round.
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Old 08-16-2005, 04:52 PM   #22
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Pretty funny people always bitching about Jericho not being in the main event, but when he finally is people still bitch.

Well a title shot anyway which would be a main event at any other PPV
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Old 08-16-2005, 05:00 PM   #23
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Quote:
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Pretty funny people always bitching about Jericho not being in the main event, but when he finally is people still bitch.
It happens every time we get what we want.
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Old 08-16-2005, 05:04 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow
It happens every time we get what we want.
Shadow: BLAH! Why did they put the title on Jeff Hardy!? He is nothing more then a sloppy spot fest who deserves a place in a watered down Cruiserweight Division but nothing else.
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Old 08-16-2005, 05:17 PM   #25
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Quote:
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It happens every time we get what we want.
This goes back to my "Wrestling fans are stupid" notion.

It's also why I think smarks have so little credit. Not only do they bitch about how bad the product while watching it, but they also tend to bitch even when they get something that they wanted. "Oh, but the match wasn't precisely to my specs..."

Please.

Okay, tiresome. Jericho doesn't get over when they're trying to push Cena? That's it, I personally am boycotting the product because they're not push a guy who will probably end up getting written off the show shorterm so he can go do shite vocals in a band far more talented than he affords?
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Old 08-16-2005, 05:51 PM   #26
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Ya know... the fact that Jericho's taking some time off Summerslam couldn't have had anything to do with anything, could it?

We all know this is a filler feud until Hunter comes back.
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Old 08-16-2005, 06:01 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corkscrewed
Ya know... the fact that Jericho's taking some time off Summerslam couldn't have had anything to do with anything, could it?
Or that the feud's about AustinCena vs The Corporation Bischoff.
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Old 08-16-2005, 06:19 PM   #28
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I have become a Jericho-mark recently, and I must say, I would prefer him to Cena as WWE Champ, as would a lot of regular fans.

My brothers who both aren't hardcore fans, but still watch occasionally absolutely despise Cena, as does my dad who I occasionally watch RAW with when he's over. Maybe it's some genetic thing, but he always reminds me of how ugly John Cena is, and how he looks like an ape.

I am positive that for every John Cena "mark" there is, there is another person that despises him, that is not watching in part because of Cena. It just upsets me that the WWE are putting all their eggs in the basket that is decorated to fit the ideals of wrestling fans, who may not be socially "cool" in the first place.

Yeah, yeah, I know, John Cena should fit wrestling fans because wrestling fans watch wrestling, but a guy like Jericho can trap in newer fans, while not repelling others.

Cena is over huge, no doubt about it, but he is not God, and he is not the "saviour of wrestling". He already has people that will automatically despise him due to his association with rap music. He's already limited in the crowds he can bring in.

Putting him over as God is a stupid move, IMO, and they need to shake up the way they book things. Call me a bitcher, but I LIKE John Cena, and I HOPE he succeeds. It is obvious he's a great guy. But I seriously doubt he is the saviour of this business, and I seriously doubt him squashing his top contender and the IC Champ is as much "keeping him strong" as it is "shitting all over everyone but Cena".
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Old 08-16-2005, 06:21 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The One
Shadow: BLAH! Why did they put the title on Jeff Hardy!? He is nothing more then a sloppy spot fest who deserves a place in a watered down Cruiserweight Division but nothing else.
Hey One...

Rhi's calling, your up next.

Seriouslly. When did they ever put a title, that mattered, on Jeff Hardy. The European title, the IC title, the Hardkore title, don't matter. They never put the big strap on him and I liked it that way. Why? Because Jeff Hardy should not have to hold up a company as big as the WWE. I know that sounds weird coming from me but it's the truth.

It was great seeing him come sooooo close during the Ladder match with the Undertaker. It would've been sooooo sweet having him wear that Undisputed belt around for awhile. But you know what? He would've crashed and burned alot sooner. And knowing what I know now...I would've been pissed had I seen that.

Now if Jeff got some of that NWA gold...yes. That would be a good business decision because TNA is a much much much smaller company than the WWE. So don't go off on me on a compleatly unrelated tangent because every time something goes our way, we bitch and I call us on it.
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Old 08-16-2005, 06:41 PM   #30
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Hey, now. Don't take all the credit; I was calling you people on that about two weeks ago.
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Old 08-16-2005, 07:14 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06
I have become a Jericho-mark recently, and I must say, I would prefer him to Cena as WWE Champ, as would a lot of regular fans.

My brothers who both aren't hardcore fans, but still watch occasionally absolutely despise Cena, as does my dad who I occasionally watch RAW with when he's over. Maybe it's some genetic thing, but he always reminds me of how ugly John Cena is, and how he looks like an ape.

I am positive that for every John Cena "mark" there is, there is another person that despises him, that is not watching in part because of Cena. It just upsets me that the WWE are putting all their eggs in the basket that is decorated to fit the ideals of wrestling fans, who may not be socially "cool" in the first place.

Yeah, yeah, I know, John Cena should fit wrestling fans because wrestling fans watch wrestling, but a guy like Jericho can trap in newer fans, while not repelling others.

Cena is over huge, no doubt about it, but he is not God, and he is not the "saviour of wrestling". He already has people that will automatically despise him due to his association with rap music. He's already limited in the crowds he can bring in.

Putting him over as God is a stupid move, IMO, and they need to shake up the way they book things. Call me a bitcher, but I LIKE John Cena, and I HOPE he succeeds. It is obvious he's a great guy. But I seriously doubt he is the saviour of this business, and I seriously doubt him squashing his top contender and the IC Champ is as much "keeping him strong" as it is "shitting all over everyone but Cena".
You know, the same arguments were made against Austin and the Rock. If the internet was so common in the 80s, I bet the same arguments would have been made about Hogan.

So what if he's not over with everyone...Has there ever been anyone who is over with 100% of the population? So what if he's automatically despised by some...Like the Rock didn't?
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Old 08-16-2005, 07:15 PM   #32
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Quote:
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Hey, now. Don't take all the credit; I was calling you people on that about two weeks ago.
Who? On what?
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Old 08-16-2005, 07:33 PM   #33
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Yea, like I said a little while back, the way Jericho has been and still is being booked, he doesn't come off as the "main" heel at all right now. Angle and HBK beat him out IMO. I know this whole thing was to build Cena and make him strong, which is a good thing, but I just wish it wasn't for Summerslam. I wish it were for one of the branded PPV's. Cause this Title match just doesn't have that big match feel for me like a Summerlslam Title match should. And that's on both brands.

The Benoit/Orton match last year was fucking awesome cause Orton just kept gaining momentum that whole year and he and Benoit were on equal terms in everyone's eyes. Cleary Cena has been owning Jericho almost every week, without Jericho gaining any kind of momentum.
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Old 08-16-2005, 07:34 PM   #34
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Jericho in a WWE title match doesn't come too often, especially one-on-one at Summerslam. As huge of a mark I am for Jericho, I'd rather see Cena walk out as the champ because it's better for business. People here have been saying it for months. Is Jericho gonna job? Yes, but he's jobbing to put over the guy who's drawing the most right now, and he's getting notoriety just for being in a high profile feud (nothing compared to Hogan/HBK).

I'm not bitching because Jericho is doing something that hasn't been done in a long time: make someone besides HHH look really good.
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Old 08-16-2005, 09:25 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
You know, the same arguments were made against Austin and the Rock. If the internet was so common in the 80s, I bet the same arguments would have been made about Hogan.

So what if he's not over with everyone...Has there ever been anyone who is over with 100% of the population? So what if he's automatically despised by some...Like the Rock didn't?
But Steve Austin and The Rock actually lost occasionally, giving the fans a chance to turn on them, or shit all over them as potential stars. Look how they turned out. The fans accepted Austin and Rock as powerful characters, and they actually drew people into the business. Wrestling boomed because of these two men.

Cena has yet to cause a boom. He and Batista created increased interest in the product around WrestleMania, but that has since dropped off, and Batista was probably the key reason people were tuning in.

I'm not saying don't push Cena, I'm just saying he shouldn't be made to look like he's invincible. Jericho should have SOME leverage over Cena, whether it be with a Handicap win or some kind of promo completely talking shit to Cena about how he's a rookie, etc.

Wrestlers never have 100% of the world's population on their side, but Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin and The Rock increased the number of wrestling fans. I don't think Cena's done that. He's gotten over with current fans, but I wouldn't call him a "draw" yet, and I don't know if he ever will be. Will he contribute immensly to the product? Hell yes, but so have Jericho, Angle and Michaels over the years.

John Cena deserves his run with the WWE Title, and it could be argued a good business decision to put him over Jericho at Summerslam, but as a wrestling fan, I don't like it when a guy I feel has earned his stripes over and over again is jobbed out to a guy who is running on the reactions of current wrestling fans, most of who were cheering just as loud for Jericho a few months back. Will Cena win? Almost definately. Does he deserve to keep wearing the WWE Title. Yes. Does he deserve it more than Chris Jericho? This is juust my opinion, but no.

It is my opinion that the WWE Title shouldn't be used as an elevation device, but as a reward for those who truly deserve it. If you want gold on Cena because it is "good for business", slap the Intercontinental Championship around his waist. Austin and Rock had an excellent feud together in the mid-card before rising to the top. That's a stage John Cena flew through a little too quickly if you ask me.

I like Cena, I think he deserves to be at where he's at, but I don't think he deserves to be treated like some God over other guys who are just as capable, if not more so, than Cena at carrying the company.
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Old 08-16-2005, 11:33 PM   #36
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Jericho should have at least gone over Shelton or someone to give him some momentum
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Old 08-16-2005, 11:36 PM   #37
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The title ISN'T a reward, it IS a plot device. If you don't like that, fine. You think it should be different, great.

Austin had his dominant streaks, and when he lost, he was losing to some worthy contenders. Who does Cena have that's viable without bringing him down? The Rock and Austin lost to big, important people, where Jericho's been lying down like (Insert Lita joke here). Losing to Taker or Austin wouldn't have hurt the Rock. Because they weren't glorified jobbers themselves.

They need to build a strong upper midcard before that can really happen to Cena.
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Old 08-17-2005, 01:28 AM   #38
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Losing to Jericho really wouldn't hurt Cena, in my opinion. Marks eat up Jericho, smarks eat up Jericho, everyone eats up Jericho, and yes, he has been booked like a mid-carded for a while, but he has the ability and the pas credentials to look like a million bucks when he needs to. Jericho can win the title a anytime and make it look natural.
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Old 08-17-2005, 10:59 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06
Losing to Jericho really wouldn't hurt Cena, in my opinion. Marks eat up Jericho, smarks eat up Jericho, everyone eats up Jericho, and yes, he has been booked like a mid-carded for a while, but he has the ability and the pas credentials to look like a million bucks when he needs to. Jericho can win the title a anytime and make it look natural.
I disagree.

There's very little to argue here, since I disagree with the notion that he looks viable currently.
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Old 08-17-2005, 11:45 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Or that the feud's about AustinCena vs The Corporation Bischoff.
That's what I see as well. I'm not lamenting the fact that Cena is going over. I've known that from the start and it is a smart move for the business.

It would take more time than what was alloted to build up Jericho's character. But instead of beating some credible people in a minor attempt to boost his momentum or continuing with the jealousy angle they started off with he is now more of a Bischoff puppet. I'm just waiting for Bischoff to tell Jericho to take his dog for a walk.
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