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Old 12-19-2004, 12:45 AM   #361
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Yeah, Dioner Navarro (the catcher prospect in the Yankees deal) looks promising. Kind of sucks to get rid of him.
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Old 12-19-2004, 01:06 AM   #362
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@ the A's..Sweet hopefully they suck now. Wildcard Purposes.

Yankees are looking real good this year though, fucking pitching staff is looking insane. Hopefully Pavano bombs in the big city just like Vazquez did.
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Old 12-19-2004, 02:54 AM   #363
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Wow, Billy Beane doesn't fuck around, does he?

I must say, I love what the A's are doing. Every team has a time period where they are at the bottom of the success cycle ... the dark years so to speak, but I think Beane has somewhat eliminated that from happening by trading his players at their highest value instead of letting them walk for nothing when they're contracts are up.

The A's figure to be above average next year (they still have Zito, Harden, Chavez, Durazo, and Crosby. Plus they'll have Jason Kendall, a full season of Nick Swisher and a much bette bullpen.) And AWESOME in 2006-2008. No dark years. No period of time where they're a laughingstock.

Really, it seems like a brilliant plan. Draft a bunch of awesome young players, ride them for a couple years, then, before they get too expensive/old, cash them in for new batch of awesome young players. It must be painful as an A's fan, but as an objective observer, I'm loving it.

As I mentioned earlie though, I think people are foolish to count out the A's next year. Last year Mulder was pretty awful in the 2nd half, and Zito in the 1st half, and yet they almost made the playoffs. I think Haren should be at least as good as Mulder was last year, and John Sickels thinks Dan Meyer can be ROY. Plus, they still have Zito, and of course Rich Harden is the MAN. Their offense is about the same as last year, and their bullpen is MUCH better. I think the A's will win at least 85 games next year, and be back in the playoffs by 2006.
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Old 12-19-2004, 03:10 AM   #364
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I agree with Psychosport, this is just an example of why the A's have one of the two best front offices in the league. Spend half the money of the Sox/Yanks and still make the playoffs. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see Zito go too now. Anybody who is saying that the A's are dumb for making these last two trades is pretty dumb themselves.

What has been looked over so far though, is THE CARDINALS! HOLY SHIT! Mulder-Morris-Carpenter, then go along with an offense that pretty much only lost role players. There is no way the Cubs come back for the division this year, sorry.

Also, a funny note for all you Red Sox fans...I couldn't read the story because I'm not an insider, but there was a headline on ESPN.com reading "Pedro wooing Varitek" I really would laugh if that went through.
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Old 12-20-2004, 03:11 AM   #365
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BCWWF - Pedro in his interview w/ the Boston Herald said he hoped Teck left, and he wanted him as catcher, they asked him how would Piazza feel and he said Piazza could play 1st, the Pedro wants all the best players on his team and Teck is the best catcher. Also said he wanted Manny to get delt to the Mets and hopped everyone left the sox.

I read Pedro's interview... I don't fault the guy for taking the money, but this crap about respect and if he doesn't make teams respect him, how will any other players from his country get respect is crap. It is funny, you could really tell in the interview how jealous of schilling he was. He kept comparing the ages, forgetting that even though older, Schill has pitched more games due to better health.

Whatever, best of luck Pedro!

Greta moves by Beane

So, the RJ trade is almost final and goes to the league and then there's 3days for Greene and RJ to waive their no-trade clause. So, this still may not get done. Both are talking extention.

Don't forget, A-rod had agreed on a deal to come to the sox, and it didn't go through because he agreed to re-do his contract and the MLBPA wouldn't sign off on it, so it's never done till it's signed. I assume however it will get done, I think the hold-up could be if Greene doesn't want to leave, but Arizona ain't that far away from home for him.,

On a side note, listening to sports radio they had some Cardinal (sorry, didn't catch the name) or former, cause he said he didn't get offered arbirtation and can't negotiate w/ them until may. Anyway, he was kinda bitching that the Cardinals should have had home field in the world series since the Red Sox were a wild card team and they weren't. That if Schill had to pitch in STL and run the bases and a different field, things would have been different. First, if STL did have homefield, Schill still wouldn't have pitched in STL just for the reasons stated. Or if he did, he'd not swing at the plate and chance running a base.

But it brings a good question, what do you think of the all-star game deciding who gets home field? I this case a Wild Card team (a team that 10?yrs ago wouldn't have made the playoffs) got the homefield, now given, 4game sweep, so it was 2home, 2away, but do you think that's fair?

Also, someone help me here, I can't remember. I thought the WS used to alternate NL/AL for homefield I didn't think it was best record when it got to the WS, so his point wouldn't have mattered in that case.
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Old 12-20-2004, 08:01 PM   #366
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I just think it would be kind of funny if the Mets had Pedro, Varitek, and Manny or something.

Then the Cubs have Nomar and Walker, and then the Red Sox could very easilly have the former core of the Twins in Mienkiewicz, Ortiz, and Piersynski (if Tek walks Pierzynski would probably have a good chance of getting picked up by the sox).

Its just kind of funny how multiple core players have just switched teams. I think I did a really poor job of explaining my reasoning though.
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Old 12-20-2004, 08:10 PM   #367
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I am waiting on Boston fans (minus Stima) to hate on Pedro now
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Old 12-20-2004, 08:13 PM   #368
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Nah I was expecting Pedro to leave since like mid-season last year, doens't really bother me.
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Old 12-20-2004, 08:40 PM   #369
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Oakland will be in the running this up coming year too guys.
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Old 12-20-2004, 08:44 PM   #370
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Yeah, I don't see the Boston fans being too bitter about Pedro
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Old 12-20-2004, 10:10 PM   #371
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Where is Carlos Beltran going to end up? I haven't heard anything in regards to him as of late.
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Old 12-20-2004, 10:12 PM   #372
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They are saying Yankees most likely. Them or Houston, but Yankees will give him way more. No team wants to give him 10 years.
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Old 12-20-2004, 10:16 PM   #373
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With Beltran, I believe the big three teams are the Astros, Yankees and Cubs (I think). Yankees are going to offer him the most money but only by a couple million. Beltran has said that he doesn't want to play in a big city and is more comfortable in a smaller market. He's basically saying that he doesn't want to play for the Yankees even if they offer him the best contract.

Most of the talk I've heard has him staying in Houston since they are going to be close to a 100 million dollar contract and he obviously flourished there.
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Old 12-20-2004, 11:45 PM   #374
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You know, the more I think about it, I think the A's are going to be scary as hell in 2006. They got some great young talent and I heard Gammons compare that catcher they got to Pujols. I'm really interested to see how this plays out.

Zito's going to get hammered next year though
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Old 12-20-2004, 11:50 PM   #375
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Quote:
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I Spend half the money of the Sox/Yanks and still make the playoffs.
And always lose in the 1st round
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Old 12-20-2004, 11:52 PM   #376
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LOL AT BYRNES. YOU MORON
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Old 12-21-2004, 12:47 AM   #377
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Cabrera to Anaheim. I kinda figured St. Louis would get him to replace Renteria.
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Old 12-21-2004, 02:37 AM   #378
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87, 91
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Old 12-21-2004, 03:43 AM   #379
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Nah, unlike when Clemens left, people aren't pissed at Pedro. Everyone understand its money, and each day he says something stupid and people kinda scratch their head and laugh.

So, is the Daily News like a tabloid paper? We all had a good laugh today and the story about Pedro dissing his midgit friend Nelson and Nelson responded... must be a slow news day.
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Old 12-21-2004, 03:45 AM   #380
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yeah, the rumor today was Beltran to NYY. But Borus wants like 10yrs/20mil.

So, I'll agree Beltran is good, but even on the old "pay scale" is Beltran worth Manny/A-rod type money?

I don't think so, he had a great playoffs and is a star player... but I wouldn't put him in the Manny/A-rod class.
He's not far behined that though...
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Old 12-21-2004, 10:08 AM   #381
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I rate Beltran ahead of Manny, personally. Better defense, tons more speed. If you look at his offensive numbers, they are comparable. Manny's the man though, don't get me wrong. I hope for the sake of baseball Beltran stays in Houston, or at least stays out of Boston or New York or St. Louis...
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Old 12-21-2004, 12:46 PM   #382
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I think people in here are being overly harsh on Javier Vazquez. He had a pretty awesome first half, and a very average second half. Infact his second half sucked, but he did come through with two 8 + inning winning outings when we needed it most. Looking at it Mark Mulder had just as bad a second half before a hot patch at the end, but because he won a ton of games everyones letting him off the hook

Anyway yeah, Beltran sure would be a nice addition.

But tbh coming away from this off season with Johnson and Pavano i'd be happy enough.
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Old 12-21-2004, 02:33 PM   #383
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Vazquez isn't bad, but he has an inflated record because he was on the Yankees and it would take about three Vazquez's to be equal to one Randy.
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Old 12-21-2004, 04:45 PM   #384
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Vazquez isn't bad, but he has an inflated record because he was on the Yankees and it would take about three Vazquez's to be equal to one Randy.
Vazquez remings me of Jeff Weaver in a way. Weaver was very good Detroit, much like Vazquez was for Montreal. Both come to the Yanks with high expectations. Weaver pretty much bombed, while Vazquez did better and showed glimpses but wasn't as good as expected. I think alot of New York Yankee fan's thought he would be the next Pedro. I think Vazquez and Weaver are the types of pitcher's that flourish in smaller market's. I think it would be good for Vazquez and the Yanks to move him.
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Old 12-21-2004, 06:08 PM   #385
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Vazquez was better on Montreal for the same reason he will now be better in the NL.

It's easier to pitch in the NL then the AL.

Very few have gone from the NL to the AL and done as well as they did in the NL.
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Old 12-21-2004, 07:55 PM   #386
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Do you think that if he goes back to the NL he would have the same results as he did in Montreal?

Also, LA isn't a small market really.
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Old 12-21-2004, 07:56 PM   #387
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NEWS: The Dodgers just pulled out of the three-way deal. No trade for now.
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Old 12-22-2004, 01:06 AM   #388
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it's DEAD

*rejoices*
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Old 12-22-2004, 03:41 AM   #389
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Quote:
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Do you think that if he goes back to the NL he would have the same results as he did in Montreal?

Also, LA isn't a small market really.
Probably close, and no, LA isn't a small market.

the simple rule is the AL has a DH and NL has a pitcher hitting. That's 1/9th.

But, if you look at most NL teams (typically) they are built more on defense where AL is built more on hitting. Typically an NL team has more "dead hitters" then an AL team. Catcher, SS, are two examples.

There are some exceptions, Pedro was one.

Glad the deal is dead, didn't want to see RJ in NY. There is talk the deal may start again now the Dodgers signed JD Drew, there is also talk that the Dodgers may deal Green to Arizona in a deal that doesn't involve NYY.
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Old 12-22-2004, 11:25 AM   #390
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Regardless of this deal being dead, the Yankees will wind up with Johnson, Carlos Beltran, or both.
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Old 12-23-2004, 03:48 AM   #391
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Sox signed Wade Miller.

So, Schillings, Wells, Clemment, Miller, Wakefield, Arroyo.

I think there's a trade in the works and Arroyo gets delt which leaves Wake as oddman-out early in the season until/incase one of those guys breaks down.
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Old 12-23-2004, 06:10 PM   #392
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Sox signed Tek.

*does a happy dance*
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Old 12-23-2004, 06:40 PM   #393
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Sox give us an early Christmas gift... I am so relieved right now
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Old 12-24-2004, 01:10 AM   #394
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I wouldn't neccessarily say that the NL is less offensive. Bonds, Sosa, Pujols, all the big power guys are in the NL by far. I would agree that the whole lineup generally might not be as solid as an AL lineup, but IMO the NL has much more dangerous players then the AL.
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Old 12-24-2004, 02:01 AM   #395
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I just don't think you'll see another huge contract like A-Rod or Manny got. I think it was mistake giving them both a huge contract like that and MLB probably won't make the same mistake again. Unless the Yankees give them what he is asking for. It is a shitload of money though, I know the Yanks got EXTREMELY deep pockets but I don't know. I think they might have a limit at some point.

Nice, Veritek signed with the Sox? That post mentioning it was the 1st i've heard about it.
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Old 12-24-2004, 02:07 AM   #396
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4 years 40 million
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Old 12-24-2004, 02:10 AM   #397
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Yea just looked it up..SICK DEALLLL

Also saw that the Red Sox picked up Wells, Clement, and Miller all for around the same that Pedro was making. Good shit. I am feeling a lot better now that the Sox have picked up a few pretty pitchers and picked up Veritek. Also Rameriz, Ortiz, and Renteria in the 3-4-5 slot
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Old 12-24-2004, 03:19 AM   #398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCWWF
I wouldn't neccessarily say that the NL is less offensive. Bonds, Sosa, Pujols, all the big power guys are in the NL by far. I would agree that the whole lineup generally might not be as solid as an AL lineup, but IMO the NL has much more dangerous players then the AL.
Word it however you want, it's easier to pitch in the NL then the AL.

Pitcher hitting vs. DH
Plus most NL teams tend to be more speed/defense, where AL teams tend to have better hitting.

As for "the NL has much more dangerous players then the AL."

Top 5 BA
3- AL
2-NL

Top 5 HR
1 - AL
4- NL

Top 5 RBI
4 - AL
1 - NL

Yes, the NL has some great hitter that are "dangerous" but so does the AL.
(oh, and I'd replace Sosa w/ Beltre)

AL - Vlad, A-rod, Manny, Ortiz.
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Old 12-24-2004, 08:32 AM   #399
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I don't have the details, but the Sox have Tec "Limited trade protection" they said it covers the first years of his contract (after that he becomes a 10/5 guy anyway).

They didn't give details of what that means, but I wouldn't be shocked if the MLBPA challenges it because the sox are giving Teck a form of a no-trade clause, which should kick in those options for Manny, Ortiz & Nixon. But it sounds like the Sox found a way to do it w/o their clauses kicking in.
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Old 12-24-2004, 10:46 AM   #400
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Boston's pitching is looking better and better all the time. With their deep bullpen and offensive punch, anyone that was writing them off (mee included to a point) better think twice.
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