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Old 07-21-2010, 11:06 PM   #1
Kalyx triaD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeritron View Post
Because they are proven to have a reputable name with a lot of built in interest. Are you familiar with the concept of brand names and franchises at all?
Yes, I do - I was proving a point.

It isn't a Hollywood problem, it's a consumer problem. If people valued new, original works than we wouldn't wait 4 years for the Inceptions and Splices. Hollywood is an amoral machine, it does what can feed it. We feed it.

I promise if more people felt rehashes and sequels were boring Hollywood would adjust accordingly.

Quote:
I just wish you wouldn't throw out opinions for the sake of having them without having some understanding of how the film industry (particularly shopping a script to studios) works.
Take this back, as a courtesy.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:11 PM   #2
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Hollywood does cater to the consumer, but they also play it safe. Movies are not artistic endeavours for them, they are investments.
You can't blame the masses since they will accept both, if done right. It's just safer to go with the proven. This is the studio's decision. The most successful movies aren't usually reboots. Remakes are normally moderate successes, that can almost guaruntee a small profit but nothing more.

So I don't take anything back.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:13 PM   #3
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I see. I guess we're done here.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:17 PM   #4
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It's not as simple as you make it out to be either. Just because remakes and reboots turn a profit doesn't mean the masses are neccessarily eating them up.
You can make the argument that new quality properties are in higher demand. They usually do far better. People want to see new things. People complain about remakes all the time.
Just because a lot of people still go to see movies that don't deliver this to them doesn't mean it's what they'd prefer.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:23 PM   #5
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Not to mention Inception did incredibly well this weekend... so I would say the masses do have an appetite for original material.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:29 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitch_h View Post
Not to mention Inception did incredibly well this weekend... so I would say the masses do have an appetite for original material.
I wouldn't use this as a basis for this argument. Inception was great but it was still a huge-budget action film. A good one, yes. It still was directed by a huge mainstream director coming off of one of the biggest films of all-time. A good director, yes. A good film, yes. It still starred a former teenage Hollywood heart-throb. A good actor, yes.

My point being that it was a great film, with a great director, a great leading man and great supporting actors but it's not like it was some film out of left field or something that didn't have mainstream appeal already. The fact that it's a great film my a genius director/righter is kind of inconsequential in my mind.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:32 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FakeRazor View Post
I wouldn't use this as a basis for this argument. Inception was great but it was still a huge-budget action film. A good one, yes. It still was directed by a huge mainstream director coming off of one of the biggest films of all-time. A good director, yes. A good film, yes. It still starred a former teenage Hollywood heart-throb. A good actor, yes.

My point being that it was a great film, with a great director, a great leading man and great supporting actors but it's not like it was some film out of left field or something that didn't have mainstream appeal already. The fact that it's a great film my a genius director/righter is kind of inconsequential in my mind.
It's still new material though. I think material and creators are two different things.
A lot of people will feel comfortable with proven directors, writers and actors. This has almost always been the case.
Actors longer than directors.

With Hitchcock and Spielberg the birth of the namebrand director became a part of the film industry, but they still brought new material to the table.
In this situation the moviegoers and studios have the benefit of tapping into a brand and giving something new at the same time.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:34 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeritron View Post
It's still new material though. I think material and creators are two different things.
A lot of people will feel comfortable with proven directors, writers and actors. This has almost always been the case.
Actors longer than directors.

With Hitchcock and Spielberg the birth of the namebrand director became a part of the film industry, but they still brought new material to the table.
In this situation the moviegoers and studios have the benefit of tapping into a brand and giving something new at the same time.
I agree it's "new material." All that I'm saying is it's not like Inception was some movie by some unknown director with an unknown cast that blew up at the box-office strictly because it was "new material."
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Old 07-22-2010, 01:16 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FakeRazor View Post
I wouldn't use this as a basis for this argument. Inception was great but it was still a huge-budget action film. A good one, yes. It still was directed by a huge mainstream director coming off of one of the biggest films of all-time. A good director, yes. A good film, yes. It still starred a former teenage Hollywood heart-throb. A good actor, yes.

My point being that it was a great film, with a great director, a great leading man and great supporting actors but it's not like it was some film out of left field or something that didn't have mainstream appeal already. The fact that it's a great film my a genius director/righter is kind of inconsequential in my mind.
Yeah I agree with this, my post was more of a response to Kalyx saying that we have an abundance of remakes because of consumers. I think the fact that the top two movies at the box office right now are based on original material supports Jeritron's theory that studios are just playing it safe.

As for remakes... it seems one thing the successful(artistically) ones were in the hands of strong directors.

12 Monkeys (Gilliam)
The Thing (Carpenter)
The Fly (Cronenberg)
King Kong (Jackson) etc. etc.

Then again the Psycho remake was directed by Gus van Sant ... but I would say he is the most experimental director of the names previously mentioned so his Psycho remake was more of a failed experiment.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:24 PM   #10
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I think you're giving too much credit to the tastes of the weekend moviegoer.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:29 PM   #11
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People like new things, and it can be proven. I say you're not giving them enough credit. Even if they don't care enough to express this doesn't mean it isn't going on. It's possible for the masses to have attitudes and perferences that they don't neccessarily even know about.
Just because people are turning up to see uninspired movies still doesn't mean there isn't a lot of people who aren't showing up.
That's what it's all about. The ones who aren't showing up. The potential dollars, not the safe ones.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:35 PM   #12
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Whether something is original or sequel/remake is nigh irrelevant when the main qualifier is quality.

There has been original titles of dubious quality, and remakes of high quality. People like good movies, not merely new ones.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:41 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post
Whether something is original or sequel/remake is nigh irrelevant when the main qualifier is quality.

There has been original titles of dubious quality, and remakes of high quality. People like good movies, not merely new ones.
Obviously, but the question here is whether they'd prefer new to familiar when quality is more or less the same. I think they would. No one is saying familiar isn't in demand. It is safe and will always do well. If it's quality it can even be great, but in general I think new is higher yield. It's just also higher risk.
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Old 07-22-2010, 04:34 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post
Whether something is original or sequel/remake is nigh irrelevant when the main qualifier is quality.

There has been original titles of dubious quality, and remakes of high quality. People like good movies, not merely new ones.
And on the latter, you're very much trying to use the exception as the rule.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:39 PM   #15
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That actually reminds me of something I didn't even mention. The relationship between the material and the creators.
This is an important one to the studio, I think. With most remakes and reboots, the material and the name itself is the selling point. This allows them to cut corners with casting, writers and a director. Usually they'll aim low and let the title do the heavy lifting.

With an unproven material you have to worry more about quality, so you're probably going to have to spend more.
Again, it boils down to the difference between studios and the fans/filmmakers. The latter may view it as arts and entertainment, but the former views it all as investment and in business terms.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:40 PM   #16
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My argument also is that Inception hasn't done well strictly because it's a quality film; there are other obvious elements that have allowed it to succeed.

The percentage of high-quality remakes is also rather low.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:44 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FakeRazor View Post
My argument also is that Inception hasn't done well strictly because it's a quality film; there are other obvious elements that have allowed it to succeed.

The percentage of high-quality remakes is also rather low.
I do think a lot of people probably look at the trailers for a movie like Inception and say "Oh that looks good", perhaps without even realizing that it's because they are turned on by something new.

I don't want to state this like it's fact, because it's just a theory. I just think in general the public values new. Accepting familiar doesn't change that.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:42 PM   #18
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I'm also opposed to "remakes" in general anyway, so I'm pretty biased. I just don't see the reason for it. I mean, from the studio's point of view, I see the reason for it; they're easy to make and they're guaranteed money-makers. From an artistic standpoint, there's just no reason for remakes.

I'm sure there are quality remakes but I just don't see them as a rule.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:43 PM   #19
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The only remake I can think of that I like is The Night of the Living Dead remake from 1990.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:47 PM   #20
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Quote:
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The only remake I can think of that I like is The Night of the Living Dead remake from 1990.
lol


I think The Thing is probably the best remake. The Fly and King Kong (2005) are also very good remakes.
Maybe it's something about monster movies.

Also, Scorcese's Cape Fear is way better than the original, I think.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:46 PM   #21
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People are certainly turned on by new things but it would have done well anyway because it was a huge summer blockbuster with a gigantic budget, crazy special effects and a top leading man. Crap films like 2012 do well in the box office for the same reason, despite the lack of "quality" exhibited by a film like Inception.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:47 PM   #22
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My argument is that quality or "new material" does not majorly influence box-office success as crappy films and remakes do just as well as quality films at the box-office.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:48 PM   #23
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I can jump on board with those remakes too, I guess. Especially The Fly.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:48 PM   #24
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Oh and The Departed is a good remake too.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:49 PM   #25
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Should be noted that those remakes are all done by quality directors though. The Fly was Cronenberg and King Kong was Peter Jackson.
And Scorcese obviously. Even The Thing was directed by John Carpenter who was on fire at the time.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:50 PM   #26
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The Departed again... Scorcese.

I also didn't mind the Texas Chainsaw Massacre remake for whatever reason. Not that I would call it a "good film" by any stretch of the imagination but yeah.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:52 PM   #27
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Yea I kinda liked it too
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:52 PM   #28
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Halloween by Rob Zombie is probably the worst remake I've ever seen
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:53 PM   #29
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I kind of wanted to see Rob Zombie's take on Halloween but I didn't see it in the end. The original is perfect anyway.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:54 PM   #30
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The Psycho remake was really bad too.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:56 PM   #31
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Yea it was shot for shot basically, just in color and with a horrible cast. What was the point Gus Van Sant?
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Old 07-22-2010, 02:20 AM   #32
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I also think remaking Psycho, and any Hitchcock movie for that matter, is a failure from the get go.
Hitchcock films are all Hitchcock. He directs the shit out of them, and it's impossible to replicate. The content of Hitchcock film's isn't inconsequential by any stretch. Many of the stories are great, but they're definitely classics because of their form. He has a very distinct style and a Hitchcock movie is a "Hitchcock movie" for a reason.
I would say touching his movies is pointless. Especially the more well known ones.
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Old 07-22-2010, 02:46 AM   #33
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Yeah, I agree, no one can weave artistry and entertrainment the way Hitch could, most enjoyable filmmaker ever. Hopefully the rest of his work is left alone.
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Old 07-22-2010, 02:51 AM   #34
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They're remaking The Birds right now I think. That's one of my least favorite Hitchcock films though
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Old 07-22-2010, 03:44 AM   #35
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The Birds was lame.
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Old 07-22-2010, 05:00 AM   #36
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Says the guy that wants The Breakfast Club to be remade
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Old 07-22-2010, 06:12 AM   #37
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featuring Jesse Eisenberg as Anthony Michael Hall?
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Old 07-22-2010, 02:23 PM   #38
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The Birds is good but it's not up there with Psycho/Vertigo/Shadow of a Doubt/Rear Window
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Old 07-25-2010, 11:10 PM   #39
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I should have fucking known..

Yeah so..all day detention in College makes so much sense but I guess its the best they could do..

ugh

Edit: Youtube took the video down, but it was the trailer for "This aint the Breakfast Club XXX" or whatever the hell it was called.
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Old 07-26-2010, 01:00 AM   #40
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would you relax with the porn spoofs Droford
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