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Old 10-13-2012, 07:25 PM   #41
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I don't get the love for Ryback. No, I'm not putting that in larger font.

I mean, I see the potential, but not the massive circle jerk. It's wayyy too soon for the guy. "Looks impressive" isn't everything. I really hope he ends up a "Heyman guy" to be able to flesh out his character with some depth instead of remaining a Goldberg cutout.

As with Ryder, it was more not striking while the iron is hot. I don't think he was ready for a world title run even in the height of his frenzy, but still being treated like a bitch even when his 15 second cameos were out popping some of the "established" stars at times and he still wasn't getting any ringtime to improve it seems a crime.

Yes, he is in a "good spot" now, but it could have been better. Instead of merely comedy midcard jobber, he could have been one of those "credible threat" guys to push that next star to the next level if they took time to roll with what was working. I mean, they put time into a merch mover like Jeff Hardy who was only truly good for jumping off shit, selling arm pantyhose, and getting 13 year old girls to have their first orgasm watching him fidget around on the ramp.. so why not invest a bit more into Ryder?
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Old 10-13-2012, 07:46 PM   #42
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I agree with Mr. Guycott. Ryback should turn heel and begin a slow-build to his eventual time at the top.

When it comes to Zack Ryder, I am somewhere between what Tom was saying and where Gertner stands. The dude just got to wrestle for the US Title again on PPV. Yeah, his angles at the beginning of the year were shitty, but they sucked for everybody involved, really. I think Eve might have been the only person to get anything out of it. Ryder is currently doing a bit of a team thing with Santino Marella, who is only one of the most over dudes on the main roster.

That being said, I do think that the WWE could give Ryder more on-air time to explain why we should invest our emotions into him. I read an interesting article by someone who has never watched Zack Ryder's show, and they confessed to not "getting" anything about his character -- it's never been explained on-air. Also, is Ryder's "lovable goof" really someone you can see with a sustained push? Is the character one for success, or is he always going to be that guy fighting from underneath?

I do think that they should have continued Cesaro vs. Ryder coming out of Night of Champions and given them another match at Hell in a Cell against each other, but with the way things have been going, we may get Brodus Clay & Team CoBro vs. Heath Slater, Drew McIntyre & Jinder Mahal at Hell in a Cell, anyway.
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Old 10-13-2012, 07:57 PM   #43
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Ryder doesn't need to be pushed. The guy can market himself. The WWE has decided, for whatever reason, to fuck it all up, and not give him fair pay. He is too much of a character to really buy in the ring nowadays, it still doesn't mean they're not fucking up with him.
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Old 10-13-2012, 08:04 PM   #44
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Precisely. (I mean what Noid said) It keeps coming back to not building stars slow over time and letting people grow into giving a shit and believing that growth. They seem to think everyone should always get over as quick as Ryback's "Feed Me More!" chant, and when they don't, they're not worth the effort... then get all pissy and anxious when they lose their top stars to injury or other interests and have to scramble to come up with someone who is "legit" enough to put asses in seats.

Ryder could have been a top-tier guy right now. Again, maybe not "World Champion", but someone who, for argument's sake, could have stepped in against Punk for an injured Cena and no one would have batted an eye about it instead of priming a guy who clearly isn't ready by not cultivating someone they had available for a couple years now. Ziggler or Rhodes could have been that top-tier heel by now instead of jobbing him out to the stars weekly and saddling him into a tag team for no reason (respectively). Even if he "wasn't ready" in his feud with Orton, Kofi could more than been that face right now who could step up if needed.

All would work if they worked toward making them look stronger over time instead of throwing them away after one short-sighted feud or stupid gimmick or derailed angle. Hell, even ADR would be more over by now if they weren't trying to make him "the man" right away just to have some hispanic guy for the Mexico market while Rey was away.

Too much hotshotting, not enough cultivating.
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Old 10-13-2012, 08:06 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
I agree with Mr. Guycott. Ryback should turn heel and begin a slow-build to his eventual time at the top.
Yeah, the first thing I thought when seeing him come out and get the most raucous reaction on WWE TV in quite some time just by clotheslining CM Punk after a couple weeks of teasing it was "Man, this guy needs to turn heel."

Jesus Christ.
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Old 10-13-2012, 08:14 PM   #46
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Missing the point.

I, for one anyway, am not saying he should go heel for the sake of going heel. It's just he's a one-dimensional "RAWR, MONSTER!!!" that will wear out his welcome soon with no type of development other than "ME, STRONG!!!" He had already lost some momentum by beating jobbers 2 on 1 on TV twice a week, because he kept doing it. It visibly and audibly was getting old even after a couple weeks.

At this rate, say he 100% was being pushed in the match as a face to be "the man"? How soon before he starts getting the cold shoulder because he will just be Mr. more-of-the-same?

It's more of a tactic to prolong his shelf-life and give him room to improve all around so that he IS ready in the future, not bury him for the sake of being contrary.
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Old 10-13-2012, 08:16 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Guycott View Post
Missing the point.

I, for one anyway, am not saying he should go heel for the sake of going heel. It's just he's a one-dimensional "RAWR, MONSTER!!!" that will wear out his welcome soon with no type of development other than "ME, STRONG!!!" He had already lost some momentum by beating jobbers 2 on 1 on TV twice a week, because he kept doing it. It visibly and audibly was getting old even after a couple weeks.
... HE GOT THE BIGGEST REACTION OF HIS CAREER SO FAR OVER THE PAST 2 WEEKS.

He hasn't lost any momentum. lol
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Old 10-13-2012, 08:17 PM   #48
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I think the "point" you claim I'm missing is you don't like Ryback so you want him to change his character despite it getting over because you're unhappy...
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Old 10-13-2012, 08:21 PM   #49
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Ryback doesn't have any significant feud or a major victory to be in a WWE Championship match. I would settle for a Team Ryback versus Team Punk at Survivor Series.
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Old 10-13-2012, 08:26 PM   #50
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Whether it's too soon to put him in a title match is a different discussion.

The idea that he needs to turn heel is insane.
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Old 10-13-2012, 08:26 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Guycott View Post
I don't get the love for Ryback. No, I'm not putting that in larger font.

I mean, I see the potential, but not the massive circle jerk. It's wayyy too soon for the guy. "Looks impressive" isn't everything. I really hope he ends up a "Heyman guy" to be able to flesh out his character with some depth instead of remaining a Goldberg cutout.

As with Ryder, it was more not striking while the iron is hot. I don't think he was ready for a world title run even in the height of his frenzy, but still being treated like a bitch even when his 15 second cameos were out popping some of the "established" stars at times and he still wasn't getting any ringtime to improve it seems a crime.

Yes, he is in a "good spot" now, but it could have been better. Instead of merely comedy midcard jobber, he could have been one of those "credible threat" guys to push that next star to the next level if they took time to roll with what was working. I mean, they put time into a merch mover like Jeff Hardy who was only truly good for jumping off shit, selling arm pantyhose, and getting 13 year old girls to have their first orgasm watching him fidget around on the ramp.. so why not invest a bit more into Ryder?
It's an acceptable break from hetero normalcy so long as RYBACK is involved. And speaking of a "Goldberg cutout," one more way which RYBACK is different than Goldberg would be if he still has his "fifth member" hood!
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Old 10-13-2012, 08:29 PM   #52
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Kinda like Cena... the whole knock on him is the "never give up, defy the odds" SuperCena bit got old quite awhile ago. Doesn't mean he NEEDS to go heel, but it's A way to go that's a departure from what was constant and grating. He could accomplish the same by not being unstoppable even when injured. Perhaps, showing some doubt. Or even *gasp* losing clean without controversy, screwjobs, or injury write-offs.

However, in Ryback's case, he doesn't really have a character yet. Usually, one of the best ways to develop one IS as a heel. If they can get past all this eating metaphor stuff and find a clever way to develop him as a face, all power to them. However, he is by no means a merch machine right now. He's barely got one shirt. They're not jeapordizing anything by turning him.
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Old 10-13-2012, 08:30 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Whether it's too soon to put him in a title match is a different discussion.

The idea that he needs to turn heel is insane.


History is going to repeat itself. Heyman is going to turn on Punk and side with The Ryback.
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Old 10-13-2012, 08:40 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
... HE GOT THE BIGGEST REACTION OF HIS CAREER SO FAR OVER THE PAST 2 WEEKS.

He hasn't lost any momentum. lol
I meant as a whole since Skippy came back. Yes, it's amazing he can lift two guys and hit his finisher, but it loses its appeal if you can see him do it ALL THE TIME. It stops being special. Crowd reactions have reflected it. I didn't say it dwindled down to crickets, nor did I say he wasn't getting reaction now being teased being fed Punk... it was just less of a reaction for awhile while he was constantly destroying guys like The Commanders-In-Chief.

You're acting as if I hate Skip. I really don't. Just said the character is one-dimensional and will get old fast. Much like how on one particular night, CM Punk got a bigger reaction than DX, and people made it out to mean that fanboys loved him soooo much they imagined this to be true every time Punk entered any arena. Also, not the case. He did outpop them once. That happened. May not ever happen again ever, but it happened that one night.
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Old 10-13-2012, 09:00 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
I think the "point" you claim I'm missing is you don't like Ryback so you want him to change his character despite it getting over because you're unhappy...
Unhappy about what? And more to the point... what character???

Okay, let's turn this around a bit. Say he goes on to Heck In A Cell and destroys Punk and wins a title with no type of swerve whatsoever. You're telling me that, as is, he is capable of being the face of the company for months on end, selling all sorts of merch, and continually putting asses in seats without any fallout because he can't be beaten?

You're acting as if I said he should go fuck off and die. Ryback is fine as is... as a sideshow attraction; a middle of the card spectacle that squashes jobbers. If he truly is leapfrogging into the main event picture, I don't see it working with him as-is without him merely being a transitional champion for someone they actually take time to build or dropping it right back to Punk and tumbling right back down the card.

At least in this instance, there is more reason for a heel turn: he gets the rub from Heyman (both by association and the fact that Paul is a godlike orator), he gets to be "dumb muscle" or "smart muscle" or jealous, or pissed off, or fed up, or whatever they decide to flesh his deal out as. It gives him motivation, either as Punk's aide or replacement... does *something* to add a wrinkle into what makes him, again instead of being just "ME, STRONG!!!"

Right now, he's just some muscular guy who happens to be on a undefeated streak. So was Lashley. So was Kozlov.





And none of this has anything to do with Zack Ryder, the subject of this thread.
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Old 10-13-2012, 09:04 PM   #56
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Quote:
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I meant as a whole since Skippy came back. Yes, it's amazing he can lift two guys and hit his finisher, but it loses its appeal if you can see him do it ALL THE TIME. It stops being special. Crowd reactions have reflected it. I didn't say it dwindled down to crickets, nor did I say he wasn't getting reaction now being teased being fed Punk... it was just less of a reaction for awhile while he was constantly destroying guys like The Commanders-In-Chief.
That's fine. The jobber squashing was necessary. It was just an exhibition of his dominance and planting the idea in people's minds that he's unstoppable. Not just telling them for 2 weeks and then moving on. He was getting established. He's gaining momentum right now though. At a crazy pace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Guycott View Post
You're acting as if I hate Skip. I really don't. Just said the character is one-dimensional and will get old fast. Much like how on one particular night, CM Punk got a bigger reaction than DX, and people made it out to mean that fanboys loved him soooo much they imagined this to be true every time Punk entered any arena. Also, not the case. He did outpop them once. That happened. May not ever happen again ever, but it happened that one night.
The character is being booked beautifully at the moment and until they fuck up, there's no reason to panic and purposely fuck it up by turning a guy heel while the crowd is eating everything he does up. This isn't typical "ramming a guy down the people's throats". The people are reacting to the guy and they are pushing him as such. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. That's how it should go. It just so happens it didn't take Ryback very long to get the kind of reactions he's been getting.

I'm as critical about WWE's writing as anyone but let's wait for them to fuck this up before jumping to "Here's how to fix it" mode.
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Old 10-13-2012, 09:18 PM   #57
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I think I figured out what to do with Zack Ryder!
I just figured it out, right now...first and foremost, Ziggler is eventually going to become WHC. That's important to point out in this idea.

Anyway, this is my idea: Zack Ryder continues to voice his disappointment in WWE, which eventually turns out to be all storyline. Vince McMahon finds out about what Zack Ryder has been saying and one night, comes out to the ring and invites Zack to join him.

He offers Ryder a chance to not only be on TV one night, but every night! Vince officially announces the "Long Island Gauntlet Challenge". A series of 10 matches that Zack Ryder would compete in; If he somehow wins all 10 of them, he earns a shot at the World Heavyweight Championship, but if he loses just once, then Ryder is officially fired. Maybe to even raise the stakes, he announces that Z! TLS is cancelled in order for Zack to get the chance to compete.

Thus begins the matches; 1st opponent or 2 would be easy. Say, Hunico or Michael McGilicutty. Then as it gets closer to 10, the challenges get harder for Ryder. For instance, there would be a handicap match between say, The PrimeTime Players. Through team miscalculation, Zack takes advantage and scores the win.

Then comes a match with some sort of legend of wrestling. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking Bob Backlund to give him a bit of a challenge. Ryder wins this as well. Eventually Ryder even faces off against his 'rival' Kane. Before that fight, he faces Daniel Bryan and beats him, then when it comes time to face Kane, Bryan ends up causing a distraction and Ryder finally defeats the Big Red Machine.

Then comes match number 10...his opponent...Randy Orton. Knowing what's at stake, Zack goes all out and gets serious in his challenge against Orton and nearly gets nailed with the RKO. However, Zack reverses it and when Orton decides to go for a RKO again, he fails to see Ryder get up and as soon as he turns around...ROUGH RYDER! 1...2...3! Ryder wins the gauntlet!

Which is where Vickie comes out and informs Ryder he wins his title shot which would happen...'right now'. Out comes Ziggler, the WHC, who seems confident that he would beat the tired Zack Ryder. He takes Ryder to the limits and as he goes for the Sleeper Hold, Ryder rolls him up in a small package! 1...2...3!!!!!!!

ZACK RYDER IS THE NEW WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION!!!! he proves he does have what it takes to be in WWE and as a result, this becomes the first step of Zack Ryder slowly succeeding John Cena as the 'face of the WWE'.

You're Welcome.
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Old 10-13-2012, 09:36 PM   #58
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Zack Ryder needs to win matches more often. So does Santino. Not against anyone major like Punk or Ziggler or anyone but make the midcard scene interesting by putting them in the mix. People love them (more so Santino) and there are enough guys low on the card that no one really cares about that can be used as enhancement talent.
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Old 10-14-2012, 02:13 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by BizarroKing View Post
I just figured it out, right now...first and foremost, Ziggler is eventually going to become WHC. That's important to point out in this idea.

Anyway, this is my idea: Zack Ryder continues to voice his disappointment in WWE, which eventually turns out to be all storyline. Vince McMahon finds out about what Zack Ryder has been saying and one night, comes out to the ring and invites Zack to join him.

He offers Ryder a chance to not only be on TV one night, but every night! Vince officially announces the "Long Island Gauntlet Challenge". A series of 10 matches that Zack Ryder would compete in; If he somehow wins all 10 of them, he earns a shot at the World Heavyweight Championship, but if he loses just once, then Ryder is officially fired. Maybe to even raise the stakes, he announces that Z! TLS is cancelled in order for Zack to get the chance to compete.

Thus begins the matches; 1st opponent or 2 would be easy. Say, Hunico or Michael McGilicutty. Then as it gets closer to 10, the challenges get harder for Ryder. For instance, there would be a handicap match between say, The PrimeTime Players. Through team miscalculation, Zack takes advantage and scores the win.

Then comes a match with some sort of legend of wrestling. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking Bob Backlund to give him a bit of a challenge. Ryder wins this as well. Eventually Ryder even faces off against his 'rival' Kane. Before that fight, he faces Daniel Bryan and beats him, then when it comes time to face Kane, Bryan ends up causing a distraction and Ryder finally defeats the Big Red Machine.

Then comes match number 10...his opponent...Randy Orton. Knowing what's at stake, Zack goes all out and gets serious in his challenge against Orton and nearly gets nailed with the RKO. However, Zack reverses it and when Orton decides to go for a RKO again, he fails to see Ryder get up and as soon as he turns around...ROUGH RYDER! 1...2...3! Ryder wins the gauntlet!

Which is where Vickie comes out and informs Ryder he wins his title shot which would happen...'right now'. Out comes Ziggler, the WHC, who seems confident that he would beat the tired Zack Ryder. He takes Ryder to the limits and as he goes for the Sleeper Hold, Ryder rolls him up in a small package! 1...2...3!!!!!!!

ZACK RYDER IS THE NEW WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION!!!! he proves he does have what it takes to be in WWE and as a result, this becomes the first step of Zack Ryder slowly succeeding John Cena as the 'face of the WWE'.

You're Welcome.
I'd much rather see Zack as the WWE Champ and just for laughs instead of coming out to "Woo woo woo you know it!" he should come out to "Get ready to counter the Rough Ryder!" that never gets old.
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Old 10-18-2012, 03:44 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Tom Guycott View Post
Missing the point.

I, for one anyway, am not saying he should go heel for the sake of going heel. It's just he's a one-dimensional "RAWR, MONSTER!!!" that will wear out his welcome soon with no type of development other than "ME, STRONG!!!" He had already lost some momentum by beating jobbers 2 on 1 on TV twice a week, because he kept doing it. It visibly and audibly was getting old even after a couple weeks.

At this rate, say he 100% was being pushed in the match as a face to be "the man"? How soon before he starts getting the cold shoulder because he will just be Mr. more-of-the-same?

It's more of a tactic to prolong his shelf-life and give him room to improve all around so that he IS ready in the future, not bury him for the sake of being contrary.
This.

Putting the WWE Title on Ryback given his current direction would not be the most horrible thing ever. The kids will be happy and Ryback will remain undefeated. And then what happens when he loses? How does Ryback bounce back from that? Goldberg was fine until he lost, too.
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Old 10-18-2012, 03:54 AM   #61
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Ryder vs Ryback Mania for all the gold...and as an added bonus Judy Bagwell.

BOOK IT!!!
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Old 10-18-2012, 03:56 AM   #62
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THE RYMBLE IN THE JERSEY SHORE BRO! BOOK IT!
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