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Old 04-23-2005, 11:32 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redoneja
Roh Wrestling > WWE Wrestling
But like Youell said, if WWE guys had the opportunity they would wipe the floor with (most) of RoH. But then again most of the RoH roster is very young, whereas the WWE Roster is comprised of vets. I would love to see American Dragon v Chris Beniot, or Christopher Daniels v Kurt Angle

Its probably pretty obvious that I mark out for RoH, isn't it
Daniels/Angle happened once before already
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Old 04-23-2005, 12:43 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThugLife
I disagree, surely if it only comes from one or two people, and then Vince, like it used to be, then we would have far better shows? Having so many members=more politics + more people who know nothing about the wrestling buisness. Besides, it takes alot longer to get through 8 or 9 ideas, therefore increasing the chance of a poor show.
No, coming from a single brain makes for worse shows.

The problem with the creative team is that they're yesmen. You're still primarily getting ideas from one or two people. Which by your reckoning should be better quality.

Also, having more people =/= more people who know nothing about the wrestling business. Poor hiring process=more people who know nothing about the wrestling business.
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Old 04-23-2005, 01:22 PM   #43
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IMO having a booking team larger than 4 isn't a good idea. Personally i'd prefer just 1 or 2, mainly because the more people you have the more politics you have to deal with. 2 writers and 1 main decision maker like it used would be my prefer option, granted it was Russo, but with Vince having the final say I think it worked
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Old 04-23-2005, 04:09 PM   #44
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^Thank you. I agree..when WWE was successful, i don't think they had that many people on the creative team. Correct me if i'm wrong here...
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Old 04-23-2005, 06:34 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThugLife
^Thank you. I agree..when WWE was successful, i don't think they had that many people on the creative team. Correct me if i'm wrong here...
Dude, the guy agreeing with you thinks Hogan's still a draw. Think about this for a second.
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Old 04-23-2005, 10:16 PM   #46
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That's his opinion,and we'll see if he's right when the number of buys for the Backlash PPV comes up, but i heard that when the creative team didn't have many members there were better shows in WWE, and that was in the attitude era.
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Old 04-23-2005, 10:36 PM   #47
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Dave, I don't get how you could fault Hart for being repetitive. He had the best timing like ever.
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Old 04-23-2005, 11:29 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThugLife
That's his opinion,and we'll see if he's right when the number of buys for the Backlash PPV comes up, but i heard that when the creative team didn't have many members there were better shows in WWE, and that was in the attitude era.
Except that's only one factor in determining the effects.

"I had waffles for breakfast yeserday, and it was sunny. I had toast for breakfast today and it rained. Eating toast causes rain."

"Only sick people take medicine. If I don't take my medicine, I'm not sick."

Oops! There I go being realistic again.

If there was a smaller creative team, things like the Necrophillia angle would still happen, since Vince pushed it. Since the guy writing things like Cena's "poopy" cracks is one of Vince's favorite writers, we'd still end up with him writing that stuff. And saying that there were better ratings when the team was small has less to do with it than the actual happenings.

More likely, the Attitude era was better because there was competition, and the company wasn't entirely ego driven (Which has happened not because the creative team is big, but because the wrong kind of people are given input), and because there was quite a bit of booking for the fans.

You're looking at a single aspect and not the related aspects. The Attitude era was not the result of "smallers teams=better." You're looking at this from the wrong angle.

Oh, and Hogan's last couple of runs failed to produce ratings. What makes you think this one suddenly magically has a chance of it, thus validating that opinion?
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Old 04-23-2005, 11:41 PM   #49
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One of the many reasons I fell in love with ECW. If ever a promotion had a perfect blend of wrestling, it was them. They had crazy ass hardcore brawls usually involving New Jack, Sandman, Dudley's, Dreamer, Balls & Axl, etc. Crazy spot matches like New Jack's balcony dive, Sabu, RVD, the cruiser weights. And a collection of wrestling classics, anything involving Guerrero, Malenko, & Benoit, RVD vs Jerry Lynn, the 6-man tag at their first PPV, Lance Storm, Shane Douglas, Scorpio etc. etc. Along with the best promo's, The Dudley's for instance, Lance Storm and Justin Credible were great towards the end of their run, Shane Douglas etc.

Heyman is a friggin genious, and in my humble and honest opinion, could build people up like no other booker/promoter in the history of the business. Like the DVD said, he made the absolute best out of people's positives and hid their negatives, and it's absolutely true.

As has been said, a strictly traditional wrestling show would not work. And the instance you pointed out of Savage vs Steamboat is moot, that was one match on the card that was "technical". That's exactly what we still have, there's normally one MAYBE two matches per PPV card that are for the technical wrestling fan.

Austin and Foley didn't ruin anything. Austin was there for the brawling and main storyline, Foley was there for the hardcore factor, both essential parts to a wrestling show (these days and back in '98). It wasn't like there were NO technical matches from 1998. The Rock vs Triple H at Fully Loaded immediately jumps to mind.
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Old 04-23-2005, 11:50 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Dragon
Austin and Foley didn't ruin anything. Austin was there for the brawling and main storyline, Foley was there for the hardcore factor, both essential parts to a wrestling show (these days and back in '98). It wasn't like there were NO technical matches from 1998. The Rock vs Triple H at Fully Loaded immediately jumps to mind.
And neither Austin or Foley were BAD wrestlers. Foley was solid, even if his primary shtick was hardcore "glorified Stuntman" stuff, and Austin was capable of technical/mat wrestling. He's no Storm/Angle/Hart, but he was solid.
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Old 04-23-2005, 11:59 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Kane Knight
And neither Austin or Foley were BAD wrestlers. Foley was solid, even if his primary shtick was hardcore "glorified Stuntman" stuff, and Austin was capable of technical/mat wrestling. He's no Storm/Angle/Hart, but he was solid.

Exactly. Thinking back, I don't think I have ever seen a truly horrible match from either of them, ever.
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Old 04-24-2005, 12:03 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Dragon
Exactly. Thinking back, I don't think I have ever seen a truly horrible match from either of them, ever.
This is probably a decent assessment. I'm not a huge Austin fan, but I do have to credit him with at least being solid.
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Old 04-24-2005, 08:06 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Except that's only one factor in determining the effects.

"I had waffles for breakfast yeserday, and it was sunny. I had toast for breakfast today and it rained. Eating toast causes rain."

"Only sick people take medicine. If I don't take my medicine, I'm not sick."

Oops! There I go being realistic again.

If there was a smaller creative team, things like the Necrophillia angle would still happen, since Vince pushed it. Since the guy writing things like Cena's "poopy" cracks is one of Vince's favorite writers, we'd still end up with him writing that stuff. And saying that there were better ratings when the team was small has less to do with it than the actual happenings.

More likely, the Attitude era was better because there was competition, and the company wasn't entirely ego driven (Which has happened not because the creative team is big, but because the wrong kind of people are given input), and because there was quite a bit of booking for the fans.

You're looking at a single aspect and not the related aspects. The Attitude era was not the result of "smallers teams=better." You're looking at this from the wrong angle.

Oh, and Hogan's last couple of runs failed to produce ratings. What makes you think this one suddenly magically has a chance of it, thus validating that opinion?

I can see where your coming from, but is it really worth having that many people, if you can't even make the right choices? And as recent history has proven, Vince obviously can't.

I also never said that Hogan would draw, if you read clearly i said that's his opinion-and we'll see the result of it after Backlash. I'm not entirely convinced that he will draw either, but i aint gonna make judgements yet because of the crowd reaction he got on Raw when HBK was goin 'ONE MORE MATCH' i'm not sure if that'll make a difference, but you never know. That's where im looking at, but ofcourse like you said, the last two times hes returned hasnt made a difference.
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Old 04-24-2005, 08:33 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThugLife
I can see where your coming from, but is it really worth having that many people, if you can't even make the right choices? And as recent history has proven, Vince obviously can't.
That's a different argument though. Are you now changing your opinion?
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Old 04-24-2005, 02:37 PM   #55
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I'm changing my view on the fact that maybe having 8 or 9 members isnt such a bad idea if they hired the right people-you've got a point there to be honest. But yeah there is another argument and that is one i just brought up. I am amazed at how stupid Vince can be with his decision making sometimes, er actually, maybe i shouldn't be?
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Old 04-26-2005, 07:56 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash Bang Newstead
Dave, I don't get how you could fault Hart for being repetitive. He had the best timing like ever.
Yeah no doubt and the structure to his matches were great. I'm just saying that his finishing combo was overused. Not at the time but in today's market.

Hell at the time I didn't know or even care about ring Pyscology (sp?) just saying in retrospect and my current opinions on finishes in wrestling
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Old 04-26-2005, 07:57 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Dude, the guy agreeing with you thinks Hogan's still a draw. Think about this for a second.
It was an opinion ok? Yours is different to mine, happy?
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Old 04-26-2005, 08:17 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThugLife
I'm changing my view on the fact that maybe having 8 or 9 members isnt such a bad idea if they hired the right people-you've got a point there to be honest. But yeah there is another argument and that is one i just brought up. I am amazed at how stupid Vince can be with his decision making sometimes, er actually, maybe i shouldn't be?
Vince regretably is out of ideas and has been for a while, he admitted a few years back that he's lost touch with the audience and wasn't sure on what to give them. Since then the booking team has been like a revovling door with all the hollywood writers coming in and leaving along with Heyman, Pritchard and the list goes on.

There's been no real continuation in booking ideas and styles for a while now because of this, so the booking is going in different directions every couple of months which tends to rock the boat. Which is why i'm saying fewer bookers means a more controlled direction of the product. Yes the competition at the time could have also have helped this when the numbers were good as could a number of other factors, but we can't say for sure. Much in the same way we can't say that 2 guys booking would work well now, but no one can dissagree that the booking as a whole was better in 1999 compared to today.

I'm not just saying this for the WWE, on a much smaller scale i've worked in companies that try to have a few bookers and it doesn't work. From what i've seen.

Again just to clear this, this is an opinion, nothing I have said is fact.
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Old 04-26-2005, 09:50 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Youell
It was an opinion ok? Yours is different to mine, happy?
Different THAN mine, and when an "opinion" goes against facts, then an opinion can be wrong. Yours goes against the lack of drawing power Hogan has shown.

You can also say it's your opinion that the world is flat, or that the new Pope is a 3 headed martian who lives in your testicles, but you would be wrong in those opinions too.
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Old 04-26-2005, 09:58 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThugLife
I'm changing my view on the fact that maybe having 8 or 9 members isnt such a bad idea if they hired the right people-you've got a point there to be honest. But yeah there is another argument and that is one i just brought up. I am amazed at how stupid Vince can be with his decision making sometimes, er actually, maybe i shouldn't be?
Just clarifying, because they're two different arguments.

And yes, you're right. In this sense, it makes more sense to keep a small team, since he generally seems to keep yesmen and fire everyone else.

What he really should start doing is listening to other people. Vince really isn't the genius he's made out to be.
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Old 04-26-2005, 10:15 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Different THAN mine, and when an "opinion" goes against facts, then an opinion can be wrong. Yours goes against the lack of drawing power Hogan has shown.
Do you know where I can get access to the past 4 years worth of Neilson ratings? because I don't. Seriously I would be interested to know.

Plus surely if it's announced in advance that Hogan's going to be on Raw one week the ratings would be slightly higher, purely for a nostalgia run, Much in the same way if they announced the Rock was going to be there next week, or if Austin was going to be there.

I never said Hogan can draw long term, because right now no one can, the wrestling industry as a whole is down, therefore I feel that i'm correct in my statement that Hogan can be a draw in respect to ratings compared to having the same guys on a normal show.
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Old 04-26-2005, 12:16 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Just clarifying, because they're two different arguments.

And yes, you're right. In this sense, it makes more sense to keep a small team, since he generally seems to keep yesmen and fire everyone else.

What he really should start doing is listening to other people. Vince really isn't the genius he's made out to be.
But then again, as Dave said,the more ideas there are, the more different directions a storyline can take..and that in itsself isnt neccessarily a good thing. I'm gonna change my opinion back slightly because Dave said what i couldn't put into words clearly, it's better to have a storyline going in one direction than possibly 8 or 9 directions.Don't you agree? That's what i was meant to say originally.

It confuses the storyline up abit, and therefore you get the WWE forgetting logic...mind you that's always been the case anyway but none more so than these days. Ofcourse then you have politics on top of that, which fucks things up further. It also as i have already said, takes less time up in putting together a show if you have fewer bookers...because you don't have to go through 8 or 9 people. And then you end up with pointless fill up the show segments like the diva search and Angles invitiational if you have more ideas because they have barely any time to get together anything.If you look at the time they have to get together a show...do you really think having so many people is a good thing?

This could explain why people like Jericho get fucked over.Makes perfect sense to me.
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