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Old 05-17-2005, 07:21 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
LOL, I hope Edge and Lita make these "subliminal" (can't think of a better word) comments that reference the Matt thing, but in story it's referencing the Kane storyline.

Lita: Kane's such a goof for not finding us out beforehand

Edge: Yea, I mean, didn't he ever think of checking your cell phone messages

god, that would be fucked up....but hillarious
lol... Fucked.
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Old 05-17-2005, 07:23 PM   #42
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That's assuming everything is a constant. The reaction against LEsnar and Goldberg was always there, and Lita/Edge will always be reacted to.

I think it will eventually die out (Most likely later over sooner), and that will give way to a lot less reaction.

Then again, people were giving him X-Pac heat when he returned, so maybe they won't learn.
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Old 05-17-2005, 07:56 PM   #43
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The whole thing's stupid but not necessarily just for poor Matt. They made it seem like Kane and Lita's marriage was so perfect and that Lita did something so horrible to an innocent person when Kane was treating her like crap in his match JUST LAST WEEK! Why that makes her a bad person for wanting out of a marriage she didn't want in the first place doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It doesn't entirely seem like the whole situation with Matt considering: A. Matt and Lita weren't married, B. The relationship they had was somewhat happier than the TV relationship between Kane and Lita so it kind of loses the intended dramatic effect. Now they basically have to come up with a very good reason for the turn next week (Kane mistreating her, for example, but again, why that makes her the bad guy is beyond me) because it's not like everybody knows the whole deal and it's details. Booking just for a small populace is what ended up biting Vince Russo in the ass and, sorry, Matt is no Bret Hart and Edge can play enough of an ass to get his own heat.
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Old 05-17-2005, 08:43 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-A-G
The whole thing's stupid but not necessarily just for poor Matt. They made it seem like Kane and Lita's marriage was so perfect and that Lita did something so horrible to an innocent person when Kane was treating her like crap in his match JUST LAST WEEK! Why that makes her a bad person for wanting out of a marriage she didn't want in the first place doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It doesn't entirely seem like the whole situation with Matt considering: A. Matt and Lita weren't married, B. The relationship they had was somewhat happier than the TV relationship between Kane and Lita so it kind of loses the intended dramatic effect. Now they basically have to come up with a very good reason for the turn next week (Kane mistreating her, for example, but again, why that makes her the bad guy is beyond me) because it's not like everybody knows the whole deal and it's details. Booking just for a small populace is what ended up biting Vince Russo in the ass and, sorry, Matt is no Bret Hart and Edge can play enough of an ass to get his own heat.
Okay, calm down. Breathe.

Let's play Devil's Advocate here.

1) They can't have Lita the face if she's drawing boos. LAst I knew, faces don't get boos and remain successful faces.

2) The tone of their relationship did change in both the course of the miscarriage and his return, where she sicced him on Snitsky.

3) Since they cannot maintain Lita as a face, an angle in which she is "justified" for her actions is pretty dumb. Therefore, that argument is moot.

4) It looks, however, that they were reminding us of former animosities on the raw before last. That means it WILL be a card in this dispute, I'm sure. It's not like the WWE to draw upon continuity unless it's convenient, after all.

5) They're not booking on the internet crowd, they're booking on fan reaction. If they're really so small, the net crowd should have little or no capacity tro cause this kind of noise.

6) Close your window at night. I saw your wang when I was out masturbating in public trimming my tree.
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Old 05-17-2005, 08:45 PM   #45
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What makes her the bad guy is that the fans don't like her right now. It has nothing to do with "Oh, she's been abused. Poor Lita!" It's the fact that she's not well received. When a face gets booed, it's time for a retune or a heel turn. The opposite for a heel getting cheered.
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Old 05-18-2005, 02:07 AM   #46
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Sucks for Matt. Seriously, I understand this whole thing from Vince's business standpoint, but for how much merchandise Matt and Jeff sold - for all the risks they took in the ring - and for how much Matt loved the WWE and the business - this is such bullshit. Not only does this poetically reflect real life (in the sense of terrible, 16 year old girl poetry), but it stamps out any chance of Matt Hardy ever returning to the WWE. Pretty shitty for a guy who's always dreamed of wrestling for them, made it, then got fired because of personal problems.

With any luck, this is going to lead to Edge and Lita becoming the most hated wrestlers in the company. And not in the sense that they should be hated for being heels - but that they're hated for being mediocre wrestlers, mediocre talkers, and complete pricks as human beings (i.e. X-Pac, minus the last one). Eventually they'll probably both be fired (or at least Lita will be) and forgotten.

I, personally, was actually finding Edge entertaining until this whole thing came about. Now there's just something about him that I can't put my finger on, but it makes me completely bored of him and his crazy antics.

Maybe it's that lame ass briefcase.
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Old 05-18-2005, 02:47 AM   #47
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They had to do it. There was no way to cover for the boos Lita was getting. What'll be great is that in a few weeks, the true marks will have forgotten Matt ever existed and seriously be uopset at Lita for cheating on her 'husband.'

My only regret is that the payoff for three weeks of pretty solid matches in what was a great tournament concept was a Lita heel turn.

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Old 05-18-2005, 02:51 AM   #48
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Seriously.....think about that. Weeks and weeks of build-up...HBK and Shelton pull out all the stops...Christian AND Y2J do the job in opening round matches...Benoit beats Triple H again....Kane wins agains, and in two weeks he's approaching respectable status again...Edge beats HBK which ends up being his last televised match for a few months...and all this builds towards a huge main event where the pay-off is a Lita heel turn.

I haven't been this since the Gobbledy Gooker.
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Old 05-18-2005, 03:11 AM   #49
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Old 05-18-2005, 03:21 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PureHatred
Seriously.....think about that. Weeks and weeks of build-up...HBK and Shelton pull out all the stops...Christian AND Y2J do the job in opening round matches...Benoit beats Triple H again....Kane wins agains, and in two weeks he's approaching respectable status again...Edge beats HBK which ends up being his last televised match for a few months...and all this builds towards a huge main event where the pay-off is a Lita heel turn.

I haven't been this since the Gobbledy Gooker.
That term is seriously over-used.

"I haven't been this since the Gobbledy Gooker."

"I haven't been this since Katie Vick."

But....hey....why fight it?

Okay, in regards of this whole Matt/Edge/Lita thing....

I haven't been this uninterested since a Lance Storm promo.
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Old 05-18-2005, 04:04 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadlyheaven
I will die next week if Kane Goes out "Adam Copeland is feces...."

lol, if they recycled the online dialouge... That would REALLY piss people off.
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Old 05-18-2005, 04:21 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
What makes her the bad guy is that the fans don't like her right now. It has nothing to do with "Oh, she's been abused. Poor Lita!" It's the fact that she's not well received. When a face gets booed, it's time for a retune or a heel turn. The opposite for a heel getting cheered.
I agree that they had to turn Lita heel. But if this situation with Matt never had happened, they wouldn't need to. Lita had always gotten big pops when she came out. And even though nothing in her character had changed, she starts getting booed because of something that happened outside of wrestling. So this booing as a face could only go so long before she had to be turned heel.
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Old 05-18-2005, 09:05 PM   #53
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I don't mind them turning her, it's just HOW they turned her. If they can make Kane look like the puppy-eyed, broken-hearted victim, though, more power to them.
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Old 05-18-2005, 10:12 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGWhat316
I agree that they had to turn Lita heel. But if this situation with Matt never had happened, they wouldn't need to. Lita had always gotten big pops when she came out. And even though nothing in her character had changed, she starts getting booed because of something that happened outside of wrestling. So this booing as a face could only go so long before she had to be turned heel.
Yeah, so what? If the situation had never happened, they wouldn't turn her heel? What's your point? They still can't fight fan reaction.

On the other hand, I wish people were booing her because she sucks in the ring, not because she sucked Edge...
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Old 05-19-2005, 03:39 PM   #55
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Yeah, that's basically what I'm saying. I've rarely heard people boo Lita before all of this was leaked out. But now pretty much everyone knows what happened with her and Matt, so they are letting her have it.

But like you said, its just like when a heel gets cheered and they end up turning them face. Now Lita is getting booed constantly, so they needed to turn her heel.
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Old 05-19-2005, 03:52 PM   #56
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this whole thing is weird considering how a few months ago Matt Hardy defended Lita in an internet column on WWE.com
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Old 05-19-2005, 05:10 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGWhat316
Yeah, that's basically what I'm saying. I've rarely heard people boo Lita before all of this was leaked out. But now pretty much everyone knows what happened with her and Matt, so they are letting her have it.

But like you said, its just like when a heel gets cheered and they end up turning them face. Now Lita is getting booed constantly, so they needed to turn her heel.
I hate it, frankly. I hate it on many levels.

1) This was apparently no huge shocker to most people. Matt and Amy had a pretty loose relationship, and MAtt dcided it was true love or whatever.

2) Lita didn't fire Matt. Lita didn't decide to do this angle.

3) We should focus on what's important. Lita sucks. She got popped by all the little sk8r boiz, but it was mostly because she had a fucking anarchy symbol.

3) Lita's in a better position now than she was before.

4) Matt probably shouldn't be watching Raw.

5) It really sucks to be Matt, and I feel bad for him, but this is going way overboard.

Like I said. I've been knocking Lita for her lack of talent for a long time. I'm annoyed that what it took was something offscreen to get people hating her. And Edge? People reacted less before. I mean, they booed him when he was a face, they didn't react when he was a heel...The only thing getting him over right now is where he stuck his dick...

Wow. He's like Triple H 2005.
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Old 05-19-2005, 06:37 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight

4) Matt probably shouldn't be watching Raw.
Correction...Matt shouldn't be drinking heavily when he's watching RAW then going on the computer late at night and posting shit.
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Old 05-20-2005, 01:50 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy
i dont think it will give them Goldberg/Lesnar heat just for the fact of what the fans have been doing already. Sure it would be nice to see that happen and pretty funny but I just dont see it.

Also....

Can someone take the pic of Lita kissing Edge and Put OWNED on it...that would be gold...

and post it here..


Couldn't find the kissing pic.
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Old 05-20-2005, 06:06 AM   #60
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wrestling fans are the real evil bastards in this industry.

Look how quickly you have all turned against Matt.
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Old 05-20-2005, 01:23 PM   #61
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I am tired of all this Matt, Adam and Amy crap.
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Old 05-20-2005, 01:45 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the avenger
wrestling fans are the real evil bastards in this industry.

Look how quickly you have all turned against Matt.
We haven't "turned" against anybody. He's digging himself a hole.
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Old 05-20-2005, 01:53 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
We haven't "turned" against anybody. He's digging himself a hole.
SO?

cut the guy some slack

It takes a good few months to really get over something like that, not overnight. Everything he is saying right now is tainted with anger and the like.
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Old 05-20-2005, 02:44 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the avenger
SO?

cut the guy some slack

It takes a good few months to really get over something like that, not overnight. Everything he is saying right now is tainted with anger and the like.
And basically fueling heat for the other two people involved, the ones who hurt him in the first place.
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Old 05-20-2005, 02:44 PM   #65
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Incedentally, I AM cutting Matt some slack. I feel bad for him, or I'd be out and out laughing at him.
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Old 05-20-2005, 02:48 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PureHatred
Seriously.....think about that. Weeks and weeks of build-up...HBK and Shelton pull out all the stops...Christian AND Y2J do the job in opening round matches...Benoit beats Triple H again....Kane wins agains, and in two weeks he's approaching respectable status again...Edge beats HBK which ends up being his last televised match for a few months...and all this builds towards a huge main event where the pay-off is a Lita heel turn.

I haven't been this since the Gobbledy Gooker.
; I never thought about it that way. Now that I do it made me crack up.
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Old 05-20-2005, 09:05 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by the avenger
wrestling fans are the real evil bastards in this industry.

Look how quickly you have all turned against Matt.
I just dont like what a bitch he's become.

He gets played by Lita, then he decides to be "friends" with her. Right there they should fit him for a vagina.

But fine, you want to be a punk, go ahead, but the way he's whining on the 'net is irritating. Especially after he created a new gimmick based on all this shit. I dont get why he thinks he can profit off this story, but the WWE cant.

Makes no sense.
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Old 05-20-2005, 09:44 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Kane Knight
What makes her the bad guy is that the fans don't like her right now. It has nothing to do with "Oh, she's been abused. Poor Lita!" It's the fact that she's not well received. When a face gets booed, it's time for a retune or a heel turn. The opposite for a heel getting cheered.
you can't say that nowadays, fans cheer heels all the time! why did vince ban ric flair's wooooo, during his promos? because it was turning evolution face. I said it all along that Goldberg, Nash, and the biggest one Scott Steiner should've been heels from the start! the Papa Pump character was as bad as they came, wwe obviously never watched him in wcw
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Old 05-20-2005, 10:05 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vampiro03
you can't say that nowadays, fans cheer heels all the time! why did vince ban ric flair's wooooo, during his promos? because it was turning evolution face.
Right there, I started lauging my ass off.

So how would they put the brakes on Lita?

Oh wait, they can't.

The funny thing is you made my own argument for me. They stopped him from woo-ing to prevent the face pops that made Evolution look less heelish. So what you're syaing...Is that they STOPPED him from doing something that gets him popped?
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Old 05-21-2005, 12:48 AM   #70
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I'm lost? how does a storyline effect a person in real life? Like if my wife was an actress and she had to do a "scene" would I be disgusted by it? well if she was making enough money, not at all.lol
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Old 05-21-2005, 02:13 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vampiro03
I'm lost? how does a storyline effect a person in real life? Like if my wife was an actress and she had to do a "scene" would I be disgusted by it? well if she was making enough money, not at all.lol
What's your point?

I'm totally missing it. What does that have to do with faces and heels?
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Old 05-21-2005, 02:21 AM   #72
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well doing "the scene" could involve a "facial"

I don't know where the heels would come into play
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Old 05-21-2005, 02:43 AM   #73
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You guys lost me.

Owwww my brain hurtttts
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Old 05-21-2005, 08:24 AM   #74
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Couldn't find the kissing pic.
but I could!
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Old 05-21-2005, 11:40 AM   #75
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my original question was, why is Matt Hardy affected by a storyline? is he married to lita in real life? are they a couple in real life? why would he be affected by a storyline in real life?
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Old 05-21-2005, 11:46 AM   #76
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He was with Lita in real life, when Edge (his former best friend) and her had an affair. Which lead to Matt's release. In other words, because Matt's best friend, and girlfriend betrayed him, he lost his job.
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Old 05-21-2005, 11:48 AM   #77
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Oh and it would be spectacular if this were all a work and Matt showed up.
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Old 05-21-2005, 12:11 PM   #78
Kane Knight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vampiro03
my original question was, why is Matt Hardy affected by a storyline? is he married to lita in real life? are they a couple in real life? why would he be affected by a storyline in real life?
Get a clue.

He's affected by it because they took the real life "angle" that lead to him losing his job and his girlfriend, and airing it on TV.
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Old 05-21-2005, 12:13 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vampiro03
my original question was, why is Matt Hardy affected by a storyline? is he married to lita in real life? are they a couple in real life? why would he be affected by a storyline in real life?
And no, your original question was regarding faces and heels. You added this question after the fact.
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Old 05-21-2005, 12:17 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vampiro03
my original question was, why is Matt Hardy affected by a storyline? is he married to lita in real life? are they a couple in real life? why would he be affected by a storyline in real life?
because WWE are kicking him in the nuts while he's down. they took something from real life that have completely ruined the life he had and took away his 'soul mate', a very good friend and the job he loved doing all in one fell swoop. and now WWE are using it for storyline purposes. to me thats just shitting on Matt Hardy and not being very considerate to whats happened to him.
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