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Old 07-29-2006, 05:19 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastardikai
*shakes head*

Watch ECW: Where Two WWE Guys fight for the ECW title...
Big Show IS ECW. WWE OWNS ECW. ECW IS RUNNING AGAIN. It may be under new management, but its still ECW. ANd anything they do counts as ECW. It may not be the way you like it, but those are facts.
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Old 07-30-2006, 01:21 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewAllenHanso
Maybe one of these weeks Show can take a day off, so that they might be able to start getting over some of their talent.

For real, name one other ECW guys that is getting any kind of "Push"

they have so many guys set to debut that the rest of the roster are jobbing with no storyline.

I find to hard to handle that a former ECW champ(Credible) and former tag champs (Guido, roadkill and doring) are all jobbing out, but yet BALLS FUCKING MAHONEY IS GETTING A PUSH!

He looks like shit, and unless he is swinging a chair he sucks.....

And chairshots are "illegal"

So find me any logic in pushing the Hardcore Chair Swinging Freak over legitamate contenders who dont need the garbage wrestling niche to get over
He's got big balls.
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Old 08-01-2006, 04:08 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor
Big Show IS ECW. WWE OWNS ECW. ECW IS RUNNING AGAIN. It may be under new management, but its still ECW. ANd anything they do counts as ECW. It may not be the way you like it, but those are facts.
I have no ill will towards WWECW, seriously. As long as I can get a CM Punk fix, it's all good. I am going to say, however:

Big Show is not ECW. He's WWE, through and through. That being said, he has stepped up his game quite a bit, and is doing the best work in his career. But he's a WWE guy, and will be remembered as a WWE guy. Slapping an ECW shirt on him doesn't change that fact. End of story.

The only things about ECW that are still ECW are Joey Styles doing (some) of the commentating, and the Letters used to describe the promotion. Excepting Angle/RVD, there hasn't really been a true ECW match since it's come to Sci-Fi. (I don't mean Garbage Epic, I mean really. Good. Wrestling. The match that turned me onto the company was Malenko/Guerrero, not the New Jack-garbage shit.)

Also, the two WWE guys fighting for the ECW Title bit is a joke. Though I am seeing quite a few parallels between ECW and the Alliance storyline. I have more issues with the likes of Mike Knox and Kelly Kelly: A Generic Big guy getting a push, never seen THAT before. A stripper wannabe that can't even dance, even better.

I'm gonna call it now. Next Week, it's gonna be Big Show defending against A: Randy Orton, B: John Cena, or C: Triple H.

I don't hate the product, far from it. It'd be my favorite brand if it had different letters to promote it. Be honest with yourself: ECW is ECW in name only. The fact that McMahon seems to have a serious lack of faith in anyone OTHER than the WWE boys is killing the product, IMO.
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Old 08-01-2006, 05:08 PM   #44
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ECW IS ECW. Vince bought it. Period. That means if he wanted to showcase nude midget wrestling on HIS new ECW he could. And it would be ECW. By your logic Big isn't ECW or WWE. He's still WCW.
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Old 08-01-2006, 09:18 PM   #45
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The Giant's tenure in WCW: 4 years
Big Show's run in WWE: roughly 7 years
Big Show's run in ECW: not quite 2 months

Your take on my logic is fuzzy. Hell, while we're at it, I guess that means that Sean Waltman is still Global Championship Wrestling, right? and Larry Z (a guy I can't personally stand) is still AWA. :foc:

You misread the part where I said that... He's a WWE Guy with an ECW shirt slapped on him. That's no different from slapping an Alliance T-Shirt on Steve Austin or Kurt Angle from 6 years ago. Just because someone SAYS they are "not a WWF/E guy" doesn't suddenly MAKE them not a WWF/E guy.

ECW, to many fans, is more than three letters slapped together and chairs and tables. It's a mindset, it's a standard of quality. What's going to be shown in less than an hour will be a good television program, but it would do better if it wasn't called ECW. That brings forth certain expectations that it could never, and boy do I mean Never, live up to.

Vince owns the right to the letters to be used in that combination. He has the contracts of some of their former stars, but what we will be watching is NOT, by any means, ECW. He has no grasp on the atmosphere. His vision is what the crowds will have a problem with, and he'll solve that issue by giving us MORE of his vision.
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Old 08-01-2006, 09:25 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastardikai
The Giant's tenure in WCW: 4 years
Big Show's run in WWE: roughly 7 years
Big Show's run in ECW: not quite 2 months

Your take on my logic is fuzzy. Hell, while we're at it, I guess that means that Sean Waltman is still Global Championship Wrestling, right? and Larry Z (a guy I can't personally stand) is still AWA. :foc:

You misread the part where I said that... He's a WWE Guy with an ECW shirt slapped on him. That's no different from slapping an Alliance T-Shirt on Steve Austin or Kurt Angle from 6 years ago. Just because someone SAYS they are "not a WWF/E guy" doesn't suddenly MAKE them not a WWF/E guy.

ECW, to many fans, is more than three letters slapped together and chairs and tables. It's a mindset, it's a standard of quality. What's going to be shown in less than an hour will be a good television program, but it would do better if it wasn't called ECW. That brings forth certain expectations that it could never, and boy do I mean Never, live up to.

Vince owns the right to the letters to be used in that combination. He has the contracts of some of their former stars, but what we will be watching is NOT, by any means, ECW. He has no grasp on the atmosphere. His vision is what the crowds will have a problem with, and he'll solve that issue by giving us MORE of his vision.
Your examples with Sean and Larry don't quite work. If ANYTHING, you'd be saying that Larry isn't a TNA guy right now, and that he's actually an "AWA guy but with the letters TNA slapped across his microphone."

(and I hate that, because I'm of the opinion that Big Show isn't true ECW as well)
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Old 08-01-2006, 09:31 PM   #47
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touche'. I was actually being facetious, though.
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Old 08-01-2006, 09:31 PM   #48
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...So does that mean that after Vince Russo took control of WCW it wasn't WCW because Bischoff wasn't running things? I mean hell it took a drastic change, and yet everyone calls Russo's WCW reign...WCW.

Just because it changed owners, direction, and general attitude doesn't mean it isn't the company. I can't think of a whole lot of poeple who need the lecture on ECW being more then just letters less then myself or Destor, but it is undeniable. Vince McMahon's ECW is the new ECW, and it's still ECW. And all this shit about ECW could do better if it wasn't called ECW...not true. ECW is marketable. ECW is money in the bank. ECW has more people fallowing it NOW then it did when Heyman owned it. Simple fact. McMahon chose to spend millions of dollars to buy ECW, and now he is going to get money back from that investment. If he just made a new brand and called it "Velocity on Sci-Fi" it simply wouldn't do as well. Because ECW has history, because people who never saw a second of ECW programing but claim to be lifelong fans of it, because of Rise and Fall and the recent nostalgia for ECW has come around...that is why ECW is doing the numbers it is doing right now.

Big Show is now ECW...he will always be a part of ECW's history. Accept it. I don't like that after Russo took over David Arquette became WCW Champion, but that doesn't mean that his name won't forever be associated with WCW. The new ECW is ECW, it's not the same flavor, but New Coke was still Coke...not as good as the original...but Coke none the less.
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Old 08-01-2006, 09:35 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastardikai
The Giant's tenure in WCW: 4 years
Big Show's run in WWE: roughly 7 years
Big Show's run in ECW: not quite 2 months

Your take on my logic is fuzzy. Hell, while we're at it, I guess that means that Sean Waltman is still Global Championship Wrestling, right? and Larry Z (a guy I can't personally stand) is still AWA. :foc:
In your world I suppose. Or do you just get to pick and choose who not to acknowledge? Guess that would be right.

Quote:
You misread the part where I said that... He's a WWE Guy with an ECW shirt slapped on him. That's no different from slapping an Alliance T-Shirt on Steve Austin or Kurt Angle from 6 years ago. Just because someone SAYS they are "not a WWF/E guy" doesn't suddenly MAKE them not a WWF/E guy.

ECW, to many fans, is more than three letters slapped together and chairs and tables. It's a mindset, it's a standard of quality. What's going to be shown in less than an hour will be a good television program, but it would do better if it wasn't called ECW. That brings forth certain expectations that it could never, and boy do I mean Never, live up to.
No. ECW is three letters. Anyone who thinks different is a company mark. Does ECW still have the same feel? No. Quality? No. Is it ECW? Yes. Fuckin cry about it.

Quote:
Vince owns the right to the letters to be used in that combination. He has the contracts of some of their former stars, but what we will be watching is NOT, by any means, ECW. He has no grasp on the atmosphere. His vision is what the crowds will have a problem with, and he'll solve that issue by giving us MORE of his vision.
Yeah, he will. And it will make more money. It will make ECW a bigger name than it was. It's origional fans will be pissed, but for everyone of them lost (and I was one) will be replaced by two new ones, and ultimatly make ECW bigger than it ever was before. You can make this about it not being the way you want it, but it wont stop it from being ECW. Big Show is ECW. Because the owner of ECW says so. And there is no amount of crying that will change that. Get used to it.
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Old 08-01-2006, 09:35 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The One
...So does that mean that after Vince Russo took control of WCW it wasn't WCW because Bischoff wasn't running things? I mean hell it took a drastic change, and yet everyone calls Russo's WCW reign...WCW.

Just because it changed owners, direction, and general attitude doesn't mean it isn't the company. I can't think of a whole lot of poeple who need the lecture on ECW being more then just letters less then myself or Destor, but it is undeniable. Vince McMahon's ECW is the new ECW, and it's still ECW. And all this shit about ECW could do better if it wasn't called ECW...not true. ECW is marketable. ECW is money in the bank. ECW has more people fallowing it NOW then it did when Heyman owned it. Simple fact. McMahon chose to spend millions of dollars to buy ECW, and now he is going to get money back from that investment. If he just made a new brand and called it "Velocity on Sci-Fi" it simply wouldn't do as well. Because ECW has history, because people who never saw a second of ECW programing but claim to be lifelong fans of it, because of Rise and Fall and the recent nostalgia for ECW has come around...that is why ECW is doing the numbers it is doing right now.

Big Show is now ECW...he will always be a part of ECW's history. Accept it. I don't like that after Russo took over David Arquette became WCW Champion, but that doesn't mean that his name won't forever be associated with WCW. The new ECW is ECW, it's not the same flavor, but New Coke was still Coke...not as good as the original...but Coke none the less.
One of our biggest problems is that ECW really isn't a company at this point, if that makes any sense. ECW is now more of a show. It's a part OF a company. If the brand extension were treated a little bit more seriously (even if it were still a work), I think some of us might feel a bit differently. That could easily just be me, though.
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Old 08-01-2006, 09:38 PM   #51
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Huh, Pepsi is bringing up a good point. ECW is not a company, it is now a show. However to counter I would ask a simple question...what is a wrestling company other then a series of episodes and events in one long show?
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Old 08-01-2006, 09:42 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The One
Huh, Pepsi is bringing up a good point. ECW is not a company, it is now a show. However to counter I would ask a simple question...what is a wrestling company other then a series of episodes and events in one long show?
A roster of talent, for one thing. (Oh, and while I didn't come out and say it in my previous post, I think that that post of yours before mine was quite good.)

It's sort of like when the WWF first purchased WCW. Sure, Vince McMahon and the WWF owned the rights to the letters WCW, but even in the beginning of the whole Invasion angle where they briefly stuck to WCW guys wrestling WCW guys, a lot of people wouldn't classify those as "WCW matches". Some people even go as far as to consider Booker T the last ever WCW World Heavyweight Champion, with the last WCW World Heavyweight Title Match occurring in March (or April, not a game of semantics here) 2001, between Booker and Scott Steiner.
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Old 08-01-2006, 09:56 PM   #53
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But that's not a legistical truth. If you are to break up a company into various eras then yes, the Vince McMahon owned wCw was not the same as the Ted Turner owned WCW. But at the end of the day Buff Bagwell vs. Booker T was a WCW match...that happened on WWE programing. See that's the problem with writing storylines in a sport's setting. Sports, all sports, are based largly on facts and statistics. Win/Lose records, averages, titles and honors won. When storylines are writen in the hard facts become blurred. And it spreads through the organization itself. When the NFL and AFL merged to create what we now call the NFL with the National and American divisions, the Jets were still the Jets. A Jet playing in the American division of the NFL was a part of the same team that someone who played for The Jets of the American Football League.

Just because ECW (The Jets/AFL) went under the WWE (NFL) banner, doesn't mean it's history starts over. Big Show is now the Champion of ECW, he holds the same belt that Taz once held. The owner and the parent companies have changed, but the workers and the names (including their histories) remain the same.

For the record, this is a fairly useless debate as I mentioned earlier it's scripted records, so McMahon could wake up tomorrow and re-write history if he so chose to. Fiction intertwined with Fact...endless meaningless debates...why god created Internet Forums I suppose...
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Old 08-01-2006, 11:08 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The One
But that's not a legistical truth. If you are to break up a company into various eras then yes, the Vince McMahon owned wCw was not the same as the Ted Turner owned WCW. But at the end of the day Buff Bagwell vs. Booker T was a WCW match...that happened on WWE programing. See that's the problem with writing storylines in a sport's setting. Sports, all sports, are based largly on facts and statistics. Win/Lose records, averages, titles and honors won. When storylines are writen in the hard facts become blurred. And it spreads through the organization itself. When the NFL and AFL merged to create what we now call the NFL with the National and American divisions, the Jets were still the Jets. A Jet playing in the American division of the NFL was a part of the same team that someone who played for The Jets of the American Football League.

Just because ECW (The Jets/AFL) went under the WWE (NFL) banner, doesn't mean it's history starts over. Big Show is now the Champion of ECW, he holds the same belt that Taz once held. The owner and the parent companies have changed, but the workers and the names (including their histories) remain the same.

For the record, this is a fairly useless debate as I mentioned earlier it's scripted records, so McMahon could wake up tomorrow and re-write history if he so chose to. Fiction intertwined with Fact...endless meaningless debates...why god created Internet Forums I suppose...
The difference in your football analogy is that ECW would've been more like the AFL itself than the Jets.
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Old 08-02-2006, 01:06 AM   #55
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I will be fair here, I think the One has put up good points, not unlike Destor. Yet, unlike Destor, he hasn't tried to resort to hostility. "Cry about it?" I wasn't saying that I will never watch this version of the show. I stated that I liked it.

Kurt Angle, a guy who is loved by the ECW masses, WWE masses, etc. etc. is not an ECW guy in my opinion. That being said, he fits into their mold as a good wrestler. The ECW fans respect good wrestlers. (and garbage gods, but I digress).

At the same time, I watched a good match get shit on because it involved WWE guys. I'd be fine with the program if it were called ECE (Extreme Championship Entertainment) or any 3 other letters.

Also, if ECW is treated like just three letters, as Destor suggested, then WWE shouldn't be trying to market it based off of its history. They will however, because it makes money. Doesn't mean I have to like it.
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Old 08-02-2006, 01:18 AM   #56
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By no means do you need to like it. But don't DISLIKE it because it's not the ECW of old. I personally think that based soley on minute per minute entertainment ECW is the best show currently, regardless of how incredible I think the ECW of old was.
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