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Old 04-06-2009, 12:52 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dablackguy View Post
That was every true wrestling fan's worst nightmare

The marks citing that this is just H hate need to stop. How is it that the majority of people here (and a good portion of the live crowd it seems) understand that this was the time to make Orton the star they've wanted him to be. Instead, Vince took the ball and threw it in the garbage.

I side with WWKD here. What can they do tomorrow night on RAW that establishes Orton as a credible threat to HHH? Storyline wise, the feud is over. HHH defended the honor of his family and kicked the shit out of Orton. The feud can't really go anywhere else and Orton can't gain back the months of buildup.

You're right, Orton was buried. I will not deny that (though he isn't destroyed). But from a "classic" storyline standpoint, it makes complete sense for Triple H to go over.
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Old 04-06-2009, 12:53 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero View Post
You're right, Orton was buried. I will not deny that (though he isn't destroyed). But from a "classic" storyline standpoint, it makes complete sense for Triple H to go over.
Exactly.
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Old 04-06-2009, 12:54 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero View Post
You're right, Orton was buried. I will not deny that (though he isn't destroyed). But from a "classic" storyline standpoint, it makes complete sense for Triple H to go over.
What Xero said
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Old 04-06-2009, 12:54 AM   #44
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Exactly.
What Juan said.
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Old 04-06-2009, 12:56 AM   #45
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And by the way, you want to talk about "marks", look who's looking at one side of the table. You're Orton marks, that's your problem.

(Obviously directed at dablackguy...)
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Old 04-06-2009, 12:58 AM   #46
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You didn't like the 5 song medly that Kid Rock played or the fact that Mickey Rourke had to talk to Frank Shamrock for a few minutes before deciding to get in the ring with Jericho?

The main event should have been like 5 minutes longer but nothing I can complain about it was like 24 minutes as it was.

I don't know how people are thinking Orton looked weak in that match. He backdropped HHH through a table and hit two RKO's and would have beaten HHH if the ref wasn't out. Then it took HHH a sledgehammer to beat Orton. Was it the perfect match I was expecting? No, they could have done better. Did they stink up the joint? No, they still have more matches ledt for their feud we all know that this is going to Hell in a Cell at like Judgment Day or something and if Orton doesn't get the rub there I'll be with you guys in your furosity.

As for right now I'm happy, Wrestlemania had 5 good matches in it and the other 3 were either too short to matter or were made entertaining by seeing two of my favorites of all time (Jericho & Steamboat) go at it.

Perhaps I'm just easier to please.

Orton has yet to get the rub in big matches. What are people going to watch more, Wrestlemania or Judgement Day? who the hell cares about Judgement Day. Yea, I always see lots of Judgement Day matches being played during the WWE highlight packages. More casual fans tune into Wrestlemania and you would think this is the PPV to put the most emphasis on your younger superstars and put them over.


I have no problem with Triple H as champion. I have a problem with him getting the rub in these high profile matches when he doesn't even need it. He's been there, done that.
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Old 04-06-2009, 12:58 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dablackguy View Post
What can they do tomorrow night on RAW that establishes Orton as a credible threat to HHH? Storyline wise, the feud is over. HHH defended the honor of his family and kicked the shit out of Orton. The feud can't really go anywhere else and Orton can't gain back the months of buildup.
Agreed. Everything Orton has been built to be has been wasted. It took them 3 months to make Orton a monster heel, and it took them 23 minutes to kill all momentum. I'm sure Orton will get the strap eventually, but tonight could have been special.

I honestly though Christian had MITB. The crowd got hot when he was up the ladder by himself. Punk's win was very underwhelming.
Last edited by Damian Rey; 04-06-2009 at 01:01 AM.
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:00 AM   #48
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I have a problem with him getting the rub in these high profile matches when he doesn't even need it. He's been there, done that.
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:01 AM   #49
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I dunno, I find it hard to believe that they would invest so much time and money into Orton to drop it just like that. I'm sure they have something big planned for him
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:02 AM   #50
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Storyline wise it makes sense. I was rooting for Orton because WWE has built him up so well since he returned from his injury.
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:03 AM   #51
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I also love how you people seem to think Triple H booked himself to win, when it isn't his call. Yes, Orton winning would have been huge but then most of you would bitch anyway about him looking weak or the heel wining at WrestleMania.

Anyway, I think HBK/Taker left everybody so exhausted that the title matches were doomed to be above average.
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:03 AM   #52
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There's still the possible swerve with the McMahons turning on Triple H and siding with Orton.

If you get that, come back and tell me how great that's going.
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:03 AM   #53
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I dunno, I find it hard to believe that they would invest so much time and money into Orton to drop it just like that. I'm sure they have something big planned for him
It doesn't get much bigger than tonight.
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:07 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan View Post
I dunno, I find it hard to believe that they would invest so much time and money into Orton to drop it just like that. I'm sure they have something big planned for him
Again, I think Orton will get eventually go over and get the strap. And I get that Triple H winning and beating the man who was out for his family is a "classic" finish, and adds a new dimension to H that he's never really had.

BUT...no matter what they do with Orton, it will not make up for losing at Mania. Tonight was his night to be made, and they blew it.
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:09 AM   #55
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I don't really think Orton needs to be *MADE* anymore though. He's past that. He's already a legit star.
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:09 AM   #56
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Orton was fucked years ago.

If they can build it to this point once they can build it again.

And Juan makes a good point, Orton is already made.
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:09 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Xero View Post
And by the way, you want to talk about "marks", look who's looking at one side of the table. You're Orton marks, that's your problem.

(Obviously directed at dablackguy...)

Not really

I recognize that he's arguably the best thing RAW has had going in the last few months (Its either him or Jericho and the other is number 2)

The best thing I can relate it to is the Booker T/HHH feud back around 2003 and the whole "guys like you don't win the world title" remark. The buildup was ultimately pointless given the outcome. Its like Vince decides he wants to make Orton a star and then gets talked out of it.

I can't even say I truly hate HHH. I don't love the guy, however I don't mind him in good feuds. Yeah, in the "classic" sense it fit, but we're not talking about HHH vs Edge (someone who wouldn't have lost much steam doing the job) I like Orton but I'm not going to do the markish thing: throw a fit and say I'm not watching anymore cause Orton didn't win. Honestly, how can you say it wouldn't have been the best thing for the company? You admit that Orton got buried; how does this serve the company with regard to its most over young wrestler? That's the main issue, the fact that its HHH (given the supposed repuation) doesn't help in the eyes of a lot of people imo
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:12 AM   #58
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I wish Triple H would of won with help from the McMahons tonight giving the impression that Orton got screwed over. Book that with Orton out wrestling HHH the entire night and you actually give Orton a bit of a rub without him actually winning.
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:12 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon View Post
Orton has yet to get the rub in big matches. What are people going to watch more, Wrestlemania or Judgement Day? who the hell cares about Judgement Day. Yea, I always see lots of Judgement Day matches being played during the WWE highlight packages. More casual fans tune into Wrestlemania and you would think this is the PPV to put the most emphasis on your younger superstars and put them over.


I have no problem with Triple H as champion. I have a problem with him getting the rub in these high profile matches when he doesn't even need it. He's been there, done that.
Randy Orton beat John Cena and Triple H at...

...drum roll please...

LAST WRESTLEMANIA!!!

(the crowd goes wild)

That's a pretty fucking big rub...

I know you wanted to see Orton win tonight... I did too. Buthim losing tonight doesn't mean his career is over or he'll never be over again or even that he lost all his momentum. Triple H won the match because at the biggest show of the year you want to send the marks home happy. And marks want to see the bad guy lose.

I don't want to be a jerk about this. You're entitled to your opinion. But in my opinion the finish was good.
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:13 AM   #60
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Quote:
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I don't really think Orton needs to be *MADE* anymore though. He's past that. He's already a legit star.
you think he can draw money on his own right now? Without HBK, Taker, HHH, or Cena on the other side?
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:14 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by dablackguy View Post
Not really

I recognize that he's arguably the best thing RAW has had going in the last few months (Its either him or Jericho and the other is number 2)

The best thing I can relate it to is the Booker T/HHH feud back around 2003 and the whole "guys like you don't win the world title" remark. The buildup was ultimately pointless given the outcome. Its like Vince decides he wants to make Orton a star and then gets talked out of it.

I can't even say I truly hate HHH. I don't love the guy, however I don't mind him in good feuds. Yeah, in the "classic" sense it fit, but we're not talking about HHH vs Edge (someone who wouldn't have lost much steam doing the job) I like Orton but I'm not going to do the markish thing: throw a fit and say I'm not watching anymore cause Orton didn't win. Honestly, how can you say it wouldn't have been the best thing for the company? You admit that Orton got buried; how does this serve the company with regard to its most over young wrestler? That's the main issue, the fact that its HHH (given the supposed repuation) doesn't help in the eyes of a lot of people imo


I never said it wouldn't be the best thing for the company for Orton to go over. It would have been. But Triple H going over is not the end of Orton.

Again, it makes sense from a storyline standpoint and that's my main point here.
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:15 AM   #62
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Anyway, I think HBK/Taker left everybody so exhausted that the title matches were doomed to be above average.
I do think there's some merit to that statement
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:15 AM   #63
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I don't really think Orton needs to be *MADE* anymore though. He's past that. He's already a legit star.
Agreed. But he has never gotten that epic victory.

IMHO, he's at a turning point in his career. He's entering his prime, and has never been as good as he is now. With his buildup, he NEEDED this win. H going over negated everything Orton has done.

On a side note, I'm very surprised we didn't see ANY color in this match. I was calling it for Orton to be crimson by the end of the match.
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:16 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Loose Cannon View Post
you think he can draw money on his own right now? Without HBK, Taker, HHH, or Cena on the other side?
It's hard to tell since those 5 have been basically only wrestling each other over the past 2 years or so.
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:16 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Loose Cannon View Post
you think he can draw money on his own right now? Without HBK, Taker, HHH, or Cena on the other side?
That is an absurd statement LC. Who in WWE right now is draw by themselves? Hell, who in the history of wrestling was a draw just by themselves.
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:17 AM   #66
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All the guys I just mentioned
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:18 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian Rey View Post
Agreed. But he has never gotten that epic victory.

IMHO, he's at a turning point in his career. He's entering his prime, and has never been as good as he is now. With his buildup, he NEEDED this win. H going over negated everything Orton has done.

On a side note, I'm very surprised we didn't see ANY color in this match. I was calling it for Orton to be crimson by the end of the match.
Orton beat Cena & HHH at last years Wrestlemania

If you forgot that then Wrestlemania isn't as big of a deal as your making it out to be.
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:18 AM   #68
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All the guys I just mentioned
You are full of shit.
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:18 AM   #69
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Heels don't draw anyway. The faces they feud with draw.
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:19 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Show Off View Post
Orton beat Cena & HHH at last years Wrestlemania

If you forgot that then Wrestlemania isn't as big of a deal as your making it out to be.
Exactly. Plus, No Mercy 2007 anyone???
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:19 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Xero View Post
I never said it wouldn't be the best thing for the company for Orton to go over. It would have been. But Triple H going over is not the end of Orton.

Again, it makes sense from a storyline standpoint and that's my main point here.
You admit that he buried Orton and say its not the end of Orton.

Fair enough, but its a MASSIVE leap backwards
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:20 AM   #72
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You are full of shit.
what? who do you think is drawing in the fans right now?
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:21 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dablackguy View Post
You admit that he buried Orton and say its not the end of Orton.

Fair enough, but its a MASSIVE leap backwards
Buried doesn't always mean entirely.

It's a leap backwards, but not a massive one.
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:21 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Show Off View Post
Orton beat Cena & HHH at last years Wrestlemania

If you forgot that then Wrestlemania isn't as big of a deal as your making it out to be.
And then got stepped on the next night when HHH asked him what big move it was he hit to retain the title. That win didn't do nearly as much for Orton as you may be thinking.
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:22 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Show Off View Post
Orton beat Cena & HHH at last years Wrestlemania

If you forgot that then Wrestlemania isn't as big of a deal as your making it out to be.
And clean I may add.
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:23 AM   #76
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Quote:
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Heels don't draw anyway. The faces they feud with draw.
I agree, but the faces are the ones that usually build the heels up, to where those heels soon become the top babyfaces.
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:24 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dablackguy View Post
And then got stepped on the next night when HHH asked him what big move it was he hit to retain the title. That win didn't do nearly as much for Orton as you may be thinking.
You mean aside from being the #1 heel in the company?

Honestly Orton has been the most over heel for the past year except when he was out with injury.
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:24 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon View Post
what? who do you think is drawing in the fans right now?
All of them collectively as they have their feuds and matches. This isn't the 1980s anymore, and a one man show isn't a drawing show.
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:25 AM   #79
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What I'm gathering from this thread is the ONLY way for Orton to get over and "get made" is to win at WrestleMania. Bullshit. If Orton comes out of the second half of this feud dominating he will be huge.

You have to remember that things are different now and WrestleMania is rarely the end of long-term feuds anymore.
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:26 AM   #80
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Might I add it feels so weird being on the side of Xero & James Steel and against Loose Cannon after reading all those Kliq/Bret Hart threads.
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