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Old 06-22-2004, 06:44 PM   #761
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Maybe combined hair length of squad. I dunno.
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Old 06-22-2004, 06:46 PM   #762
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They would have had to have done something crazy.

BRB gonna try find out.
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Old 06-22-2004, 07:05 PM   #763
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In the past, the backup plan for such scenarios (which have occassionally threatened to, but rarely do) is to draw lots. I'm not sure what that means exactly, but that's what it's called anyway.

The one time I can remember this happening was in the 1990 world cup when Ireland and Holland had the same results (both drew their opener 1-1, their next game 0-0 and then finished by drawing 1-1 with each other). Both were through, but one team had to finish second and face Romania and one had to finish third and face West Germany. As it turned out, Ireland won the drawing of lots and reached the quarters whereas Holland lost and went out in the next round.
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Old 06-22-2004, 07:13 PM   #764
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Oh no, a revelation just struck me. Let's say England beat Portugal (feasible) and let's say the Germans beat the Czechs tomorrow (feasible) then beat the Swedes in the quarter finals (also feasible). You know what that means...
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Old 06-22-2004, 07:31 PM   #765
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No, I'm completely stupid.

What does it mean .
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Old 06-22-2004, 07:33 PM   #766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91
Oh no, a revelation just struck me. Let's say England beat Portugal (feasible) and let's say the Germans beat the Czechs tomorrow (feasible) then beat the Swedes in the quarter finals (also feasible). You know what that means...
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Old 06-22-2004, 07:37 PM   #767
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Football violence?
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Old 06-22-2004, 07:38 PM   #768
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Hopefully tonight will put to an end the stupid way UEFA does things in qualifying groups. Goal difference is a simple, effective formula for deciding who goes through. How can it make sense to use a system where they effectively deem some games more important than others at the end?

Italy had the worst goal difference though so all is not so bad. It should wake them up to the fact that defending one-goal leads is a shitty tactic. It should...but it won't.
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Old 06-22-2004, 07:51 PM   #769
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well it effectively meant that Italy could have won 100-0 and not gone through, so it is screwy.
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Old 06-22-2004, 08:15 PM   #770
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I think there's a half truth in that - when two teams are level on points then deciding their position on the result between the two, regardless of goal difference, seems fair enough. This stuff with three teams being tied and it not making a difference if Italy had won 1,000,000-0 is just overcomplicating matters. Yes, it didn't make a difference because Italy would have lost on goal difference anyway, but it's confused a lot of people unnecessarily.
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Old 06-22-2004, 08:19 PM   #771
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Electric
Lol, just watching Wimbledon and they were showing Goran Ivanesivic watching the football match last night.
Well it serves him right for beating Pat Rafter :foc:
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Old 06-22-2004, 08:20 PM   #772
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91
I think there's a half truth in that - when two teams are level on points then deciding their position on the result between the two, regardless of goal difference, seems fair enough. This stuff with three teams being tied and it not making a difference if Italy had won 1,000,000-0 is just overcomplicating matters. Yes, it didn't make a difference because Italy would have lost on goal difference anyway, but it's confused a lot of people unnecessarily.
Are you trying to say that it's all right for 2 teams tied on points, but no more?
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Old 06-22-2004, 08:25 PM   #773
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I know it seems a bit contradictory, but it's simpler. The only things that should be allowed to be confusing in football are a) the offside rule, b) Emile Heskeys love affair with the England team and c) Aussie fans whining "give us a free world cup place for absolutely nothing, it's not fair otherwise".

**edit** When two teams are level on points and they tied in their game, it goes down to goal difference in all matches anyway. When three teams are level on points, if their mini-table (the one which decreed Sweden and Denmark would advance with a 2-2, irregardless of Italy's score) is tied on points, as it was tonight, if it then also went to goal difference in all matches (allowing Italy to thrash Bulgaria and advance) then that would remain consistent, thus it would be fair, and I'm a genius.
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Old 06-22-2004, 08:27 PM   #774
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Italy paid the price for being so negative against Sweden in the second half.
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Old 06-22-2004, 08:35 PM   #775
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They paid the price for being so negative in most of the tournament, frankly. Here I was predicting them to win the whole thing and they really dissapoint. Regardless of the complications and conspiracy theories, they don't deserve to go through after that effort.

It's weird, my track record with calling domestic tournament remains excellent (I refer everyone back to the Porto deal ) but with international tournaments, I suck. Asides from the 98 WC, I've drawn a blank (usually a very poor blank, as in this case) every time.
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Old 06-22-2004, 08:37 PM   #776
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They should have brought Baggio for one last hurrah. He would have put everything into winning the games, unlike Del Piero who looks like he'd rather be at home eating pies.
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Old 06-22-2004, 08:40 PM   #777
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I understood the consiquences of all the results tonight, but I never tried explaining it, I read 91's post and thought he put it very well, I guess not

Anyways, I haven't decided entirely if I think it is rigged or not, but at present I don't think it was rigged, purely because Denmark were 2-1 up and going through, and Sweden would have gone out had Italy scored, therefore Sorenson had no reason to want to give away a goal, as Denmark were through already, it was shit goalkeeping though. Thats the main reason I don't think it was rigged, the main reason I would say it was rigged was because Sorenson should have held it, and then the Swede's just pissed around after scoring, so it makes it look like (as the pundits mentioned) if after 80 minutes it was 2-2 they'd have a hard job disguising it if it was rigged, so they left it late and Sorenson knew it was the last chance for the Swede's so he fluffed it. These make my feelings of whether or not it was rigged about 50/50, but I think that both teams did try, so t just gets the edge it wasn't rigged.

Like 2Pac's death, it was all done in very suspicious circumstances.
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Old 06-22-2004, 08:42 PM   #778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91
Here I was predicting them to win the whole thing and they really dissapoint. Regardless of the complications and conspiracy theories, they don't deserve to go through after that effort.
I stuck a fiver each way on Italy to win it overall, they were never my pick to win, but I could see them getting to the final, from the start I said it would be a German Italy final, and if the Germans fail to qualify tomorrow then thats £25 down the drain
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Old 06-22-2004, 08:57 PM   #779
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Denmark did have a choice in that situation, however.

Either defend the goal as best they could, and send Sweden out and not have to possibly face them later on, or:

Allow Sweden to score a goal, send Italy out and not have to possibly face them later on.

I know Italy have been a bit shite in front of goal (especially Vieri tonight), and Del Piero etc. didn't exactly play with a lot of passion (as ECG has mentioned). But they're still pretty dangerous on their day. And Denmark already knew they could beat Sweden (well, pretty sure as they were up 2-1 in the 80somethingth minute). So they may well have chosen that they'd rather Italy be eliminated than Sweden, as they knew that it wouldn't affect them going through.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 91
c) Aussie fans whining "give us a free world cup place for absolutely nothing, it's not fair otherwise".
You won't be getting any complaint from me. Out of what, about 200 countries around the world that have a registered football association, only 32 of them make the World Cup finals.

As the system is, there is always going to be at least one or two Western European superpowers that miss out on the World Cup (eg Holland in 2002).

Yet we're arguing that we should have to beat such lofty opposition as Tonga and Fiji to take one of the 32 places. We should have a better chance than we currently do, but not direct qualification.

You'll find most of the Aussies that argue we should have a free world cup place call the sport "soccer" anyway, and therefore do not deserve to live.
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Old 06-22-2004, 09:01 PM   #780
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I don't think Denmark did it because they didn't want Italy in the next round, the next time the Danish and Italians could meet is the final, and Denmark know they aren't going to get that far, besies, the way Sweden have been playing I'd be more scared of them in the final. Therefore Denmark shouldn't risk getting thrown out of the competition just to help out their rivals.
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Old 06-22-2004, 09:09 PM   #781
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But Denmark weren't really risking their own spot.

It could have happened, but there was only a few minutes to go and Sweden would have topped the group, so there was really no incentive for them to find a winner.

I'm just saying that maybe in their heads it was a better option for Italy to get eliminated than Sweden, if it didn't affect them making the next round.
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Old 06-22-2004, 09:16 PM   #782
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No, it didn't affect them making the next round, but it affected which position they finished in. Maybe they would rather play the Czech Republic then the Germans or Holland in the next round.

And you saying about their being no incentive to find a winner means you think it was rigged right? Otherwise the incentive to find a winner would be to knock out the Danes.

I suppose Sweden could claim that by knocking the ball around between the defence after scoring to make it 2-2 they were ensuring that they didn't let in another goal, because had they tried to attack the Danes may have counter attacked and scored. Likewise the Dane's could argue that they didn't wanna risk letting in another goal so they were happy to let Sweden pass the ball between their defence as they knew they were going through.
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Old 06-22-2004, 09:19 PM   #783
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I'm not saying I think it was rigged in that the Danes and Swedes agreed beforehand to finish 2-2, but maybe that the Danes figured before the game that it would be better to finish second in the group and let Sweden go through instead of Italy.
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Old 06-22-2004, 09:24 PM   #784
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Thats what I said in my last post.

Theres alot of factors on both sides of it, the Italians will obviously appeal, but I can't see them getting anywhere.
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Old 06-22-2004, 09:30 PM   #785
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Your theory about the Danes wanting to eliminate the Italians to ensure an easier game somewhere along the line is idiocy. The earliest they could meet is, in fact, the final. I seriously, seriously doubt the Danes would have made a conscious decision to let the Swedes equalise just so they wouldn't have the chance of facing Italy in the final.

The Swedes and the Danes are rivals, if anything, they would probably want to knock the other out. They went at each other because both knew they had to win the game to take the decision into their own hands. Sweden couldn't exactly give up the ghost when they went behind to Denmark, hoping Italy would do them a favour and lose to or draw with Bulgaria.

I watched parts of the game, and they went at each other like two teams who wanted to win a game of football. If only Italy had tried that, maybe they wouldn't be on the next plane home.
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Old 06-22-2004, 09:42 PM   #786
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Can I just say, the look on Cassano's face will live on with me forever, that was one of the greatest moments in footballing history.

I'm just happy Sweden and the Czech's wont play each other in the Quarter Finals, it would have been a great game, but I'd like to see either of them go all the way.
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Old 06-22-2004, 09:49 PM   #787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto
Your theory about the Danes wanting to eliminate the Italians to ensure an easier game somewhere along the line is idiocy. The earliest they could meet is, in fact, the final. I seriously, seriously doubt the Danes would have made a conscious decision to let the Swedes equalise just so they wouldn't have the chance of facing Italy in the final.
You're right, had I said that it would be idiotic of me. If you re-read my post you will notice I said that the next time they can meet is in the final, and that the Dane's know they won't get that far.

I have only seen highlights so I can't really decide whether the game was a fix or not, maybe I should go onto the Rajah forums and take their word as gospel
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Old 06-22-2004, 09:51 PM   #788
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I thought it was Wee Gooner who came up with that theory, and also, what are you talking about?
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Old 06-22-2004, 10:00 PM   #789
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I thought your post was in reference to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazz
I don't think Denmark did it because they didn't want Italy in the next round, the next time the Danish and Italians could meet is the final, and Denmark know they aren't going to get that far, besies, the way Sweden have been playing I'd be more scared of them in the final. Therefore Denmark shouldn't risk getting thrown out of the competition just to help out their rivals.
And I was talking about the guy at Rajah's who says alot of stuff that you bring up, which all sounds like nonsense to me, like the Harry Redknapp money scandla and Alan Smith/Alan Shearer comparison. But just forget about that, I thought you'd have understood.
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Old 06-22-2004, 10:04 PM   #790
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I see. I couldn't really have been arsed looking up Shearer's scoring record before he moved to Blackburn, so I mentioned someone else pointed it out to cover my own arse if it turned out to be wrong. It was just an eye-opener, really, to show that not all players play their best football before the age of 22.

The other thing was because it was a guy who is a West Ham fan and tends to know a lot of what goes on around the club. My opinon of Harry Redknapp is my own, however.
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Old 06-22-2004, 10:08 PM   #791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto
I see. I couldn't really have been arsed looking up Shearer's scoring record before he moved to Blackburn, so I mentioned someone else pointed it out to cover my own arse if it turned out to be wrong. It was just an eye-opener, really, to show that not all players play their best football before the age of 22.

The other thing was because it was a guy who is a West Ham fan and tends to know a lot of what goes on around the club. My opinon of Harry Redknapp is my own, however.
OK, just seems like sometimes you listen to Rajah's too much sometimes and believe everything they say. I'm not denying your opinions are your own, you seem to talk alot of sense.

And after re-reading this page, I can't see where Wee Gooner came up with this 'Danes not wanting to face Italy in the final' theory.
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Old 06-22-2004, 10:11 PM   #792
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Suck my plums, Dazz.
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Old 06-22-2004, 10:45 PM   #793
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I would, but not after the stories Moonax and 91 have been saying in casual forum the other night
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Old 06-23-2004, 12:45 AM   #794
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If you want to tell me that the Danes didn't sit down and discuss the possibilities of what they would do if they were 2-1 up, don't bother.

It's my personal opinion that the Danes would rather either

1. Have had Italy eliminated now instead of later
2. Face the Czech Republic in the quarter finals (IE finish second in the group), instead of finishing first and having to play either Germany or Holland.

It's got nothing to do with what anyone else posted.

And the more I think about it, the more option 2 makes sense - I'd rather be up against the Czechs than either the Germans or the Dutch.

I maintain that probably the Danes would have preferred to finish second in their group if at all possible (which it was VERY possible today). They knew that if they drew 2-2, Italy could not qualify ahead of them or Sweden.

They also knew that the Swedes would have won the group if they drew 2-2. As they scored in the 88th minute and won the group, there was no real incentive for the Swedes to find a late winner.

So it was a pretty sure bet that they were going to finish second in the group, if they conceded a late equaliser to Sweden. And the Danes knew this.

That's my argument.
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Old 06-23-2004, 12:49 AM   #795
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You're an idiot.
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Old 06-23-2004, 12:56 AM   #796
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Thanks for shooting me down for having an opinion, wise guy
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Old 06-23-2004, 08:21 AM   #797
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The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
THe best ever match fix had to be the Italian relegation match fix from a few years back. I can't remember who was involved I have a feeling Empoli might be but I'm not certain.

Anyway for those who don't know about it, two teams face each other and realise before hand that a draw between the two teams would make both teams relegation struggle easier, so they decided to play out a draw. I can't remember if it was 0-0 or 1-1 at the time but one team send on a sub. This guys runs up and scores a goal. He's the only person on the team that celebrates.

Funniest thing I've ever seen in football.
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Old 06-23-2004, 08:22 AM   #798
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The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
oh and is this the point where I laugh at Dazz for one of his picks going out at the first round?
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Old 06-23-2004, 08:31 AM   #799
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Gooner
If you want to tell me that the Danes didn't sit down and discuss the possibilities of what they would do if they were 2-1 up, don't bother.

It's my personal opinion that the Danes would rather either

1. Have had Italy eliminated now instead of later
2. Face the Czech Republic in the quarter finals (IE finish second in the group), instead of finishing first and having to play either Germany or Holland.

It's got nothing to do with what anyone else posted.

And the more I think about it, the more option 2 makes sense - I'd rather be up against the Czechs than either the Germans or the Dutch.

I maintain that probably the Danes would have preferred to finish second in their group if at all possible (which it was VERY possible today). They knew that if they drew 2-2, Italy could not qualify ahead of them or Sweden.

They also knew that the Swedes would have won the group if they drew 2-2. As they scored in the 88th minute and won the group, there was no real incentive for the Swedes to find a late winner.

So it was a pretty sure bet that they were going to finish second in the group, if they conceded a late equaliser to Sweden. And the Danes knew this.

That's my argument.
I'd rather play against the Dutch or Germans.
The match wasn't fixed Gooner, after watching the highlights. The match was all action and both teams wanted to win until after Sweeden scored there second goal.
It would be like England and Scotland deciding to play out a draw, never in a million years.
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Old 06-23-2004, 08:33 AM   #800
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[QUOTE=Cactus Sid]Can I just say, the look on Cassano's face will live on with me forever, that was one of the greatest moments in footballing history.

QUOTE]


It was hillarious, seeing him fall to the floor. Lol.
On BBC 1 lat night they were saying that Sweeden scored 20 seconds before the Italians.
Gutted.
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