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Old 02-28-2010, 05:02 PM   #81
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Any kid not smart enough to see that everyone is booing the fact that he is a dick, and not because he's straight edge, is probably too busy catching all the pokemon to care about drugs.
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Old 02-28-2010, 05:04 PM   #82
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Adult fans boo CM Punk because he forces his lifestyle on people.

Kids boo him because he beat up Rey Mysterio.
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Old 02-28-2010, 05:06 PM   #83
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I disagree that that applies in every circumstance.

But that's okay. This is a debate that has gone on since wrestling turned to showmanship. It wont be solved on a message board.
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Old 02-28-2010, 05:14 PM   #84
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I wonder how big of an impact people like the Iron Sheik had on kids at the time hating foreigners.
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Old 02-28-2010, 05:15 PM   #85
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I also wonder how big of an impact Billy and Chuck had on kids at the time hating gays.
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Old 02-28-2010, 05:32 PM   #86
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I will forever hate the Olympics because of Kurt Angle.
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Old 02-28-2010, 05:51 PM   #87
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True, Anybody Thrilla. Gays and foreigners are the most popular people in the demographic that enjoys professional wrestling. Look at how tolerant everyone is of Koslov and Lashley!

Xenophobia and homophobia in the professional wrestling culture, and even in mainstream culture, is another bag of nails I'd rather not go reaching into at this time. Shall we stick with CM Punk, please?
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Old 02-28-2010, 05:54 PM   #88
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Is Lashley gay?
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Old 02-28-2010, 05:57 PM   #89
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Essentially, anybody who portrays any type of character ever is going to run the risk of having any of their characters traits hated for whatever reason. This goes for any form of entertainment. The thing is, anyone watching should know the difference between fiction and reality. People who do drugs because CM Punk doesn't are basically morons, and if you spend all your time trying to cater to morons, you're basically wasting your time.
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Old 02-28-2010, 05:58 PM   #90
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Look at the other side of it. Kids LOVE Jeff Hardy...but do you think there are any kids who started doing drugs after they found out that he did?
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Old 02-28-2010, 06:00 PM   #91
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I confused Orlando Jordan and Bobby Lashley in my head. My mistake.

Anyway, AT, I think we're just going in circles at this point. Your point is valid. I disagree with it, but at this point I don't think it's a matter of anything but opinion and personal values.

Shall we go back to admiring Punk for being awesome?
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Old 02-28-2010, 06:06 PM   #92
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Old 02-28-2010, 06:07 PM   #93
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I think you're missing the essential point that he isn't a heel because he doesn't use drugs or alcohol. He was straight edge as a face too. He's a heel because now he's preachy and suddenly better than everyone else. It's no different than Kurt Angle saying he's better than everyone because he's a real Olympic athlete. The heel looks down his nose at the crowd.
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Old 02-28-2010, 06:10 PM   #94
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Quote:
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I don't think it's that cut and dry. At the Smackdown taping, Triple H said something to the effect of he doesn't smoke or do drugs either, but that doesn't mean he's going to be a preachy bitch about it. Punk isn't a heel just because he's a straight edge. He has already been a face and a straight edge. He became a heel when he started looking down on others and proclaiming that he is better than everyone else. Really, it's classic heel stuff with some modern variables to make it feel fresh.
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Old 02-28-2010, 06:10 PM   #95
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I know Rick Rude made me want to become a fat, sweaty, out of shape loser.
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Old 02-28-2010, 06:10 PM   #96
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Speaking of Angle, the straight edge gimmick can be likened to the Kurt Angle abstinence drive (granted, not on this scale, but it works). Do you think people started having sex because Kurt Angle didn't want them to?
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Old 02-28-2010, 06:11 PM   #97
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Quote:
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I know Rick Rude made me want to become a fat, sweaty, out of shape loser.
I just applied to become a Pennsylvania Pissant. Keep your fingers crossed for me.
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Old 02-28-2010, 06:13 PM   #98
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Pretty silly to promote abstinence when you've got this laying around the house:
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Old 02-28-2010, 06:21 PM   #99
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He's a heel because he's a sanctimonious ass. I understand that.

This sanctimonious ass is preaching something worthwhile, however.

Ever not do something because a holier-than-thou insisted that their way was the best way? You get it a lot, particularly with religious nuts, but also in political debates. Same idea.

Barkley is largely irrelevant because nobody has vilified him but the panicky parental crowd, but I'll address it anyway. A lot of kids looked up to Barkley. That was okay. He probably should have been a bit more respectable off the court, but his conduct was ultimately his choice. Perhaps he should have engaged in fewer of his vices because, well, he was Charles F'ng Barkley (and I very much liked watching him play as a youth - I have a Phoenix Suns blanket to this very day), but it wasn't something I would require of him. I don't advocate suing him because your eight year old said Merry Fuckin' Christmas to your parents. But I do encourage introspection and moderation to those with young fans.

It's not far removed from swearing in front of an eight year old. If you're okay with swearing in front of an eight year old, then that's fine. Others feel a potential problem exists and moderate themselves so the eight year old doesn't start swearing themselves.

I don't agree with suing CM Punk because someone's kid started doing pot because CM Punk said not to. I also think if the parents don't like that the preachy ass is saying something good (thereby discouraging the message for the messenger.) I do, however, think WWE would not be out of line for taking a step back and thinking "With all the people who watch us, should we really be doing THAT?"

Disagree with me all you want. That's all I'm saying.
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Old 02-28-2010, 06:23 PM   #100
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And now we have common ground.
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Old 02-28-2010, 06:25 PM   #101
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Old 02-28-2010, 06:25 PM   #102
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doing pot
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Old 02-28-2010, 06:29 PM   #103
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Or whatever you whippersnappers call it these days!

Stupid kids, with your hippin' and your hoppin'...
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Old 02-28-2010, 06:33 PM   #104
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EVEN THROUGH THE DARKEST DAAAAAAYYYYYYYYSSSS
THIS FIIIIIIIIIIIIRE BUUUUUURRRRRRRRRNS
ALLLLLLLLLLLLLWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYS
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Old 02-28-2010, 06:34 PM   #105
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I don't know what it is about Serena, but she's fucking sexy.
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Old 02-28-2010, 06:34 PM   #106
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I have no idea what the rest of the words to that song are.

Doesn't matter. That in itself sells it to me.
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Old 02-28-2010, 06:37 PM   #107
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According to www.musicmademe.com :

All I've ever wanted
Was destiny to be fulfilled
It is in my hands, I must not fail
I must not fail

Even through the darkest days
This fire burns, always
This fire burns
Always

This is the proving ground
Misery begins to rise
Turn away from yesterday
Tomorrows in my eyes

Never more to be held down, by the waves against me.
Never more to be cast aside, this day is mine

Even through the darkest days
This fire burns, always
This fire burns
Always

I will not be denied, in this final hour
I will not be denied, this day is mine
This passion inside me is burning, is burning
This passion inside me is burning, is burning

Even through the darkest days
This fire burns, always
This fire burns
Always
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Old 02-28-2010, 06:41 PM   #108
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Excellent.

Now I will sing along to it every time.

Badly, mind you, but it will be done!
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Old 02-28-2010, 06:48 PM   #109
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So TGR, what are your views on the Right to Censor? Would you consider what they were preaching to have been worthwhile? It isn't very far removed from what Punk is preaching.
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Old 02-28-2010, 06:51 PM   #110
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Right to Censor doesn't count because they weren't awesome.
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Old 02-28-2010, 06:56 PM   #111
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Whenever I think about who was in RTC I always leave out Bull Buchanan. Pretty sure I have mentally blocked him.
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Old 02-28-2010, 06:58 PM   #112
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I actually considered mentioning Right to Censor earlier, but decided it wasn't close enough to the topic.

Ultimately, I do have a problem with them portraying censors as such, but as this was the attitude era with the demographic being much older than it is now, it's not a problem in the same sense that the Drug Free Guy being a prick is today. It was just a problem of Vince McMahon being petty.

Stevie Richards did the best he could with it, though. I'd have a problem with the RTC in the WWPGE era. Not back in the attitude era.
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Old 02-28-2010, 07:00 PM   #113
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I liked Bull Buchanan. He was a decent wrestler. Probably not the best cohort in the RTC (Val Venis gets that title, for my money) but he was still decent.
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Old 02-28-2010, 07:02 PM   #114
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How old were you during the Attitude Era, TGR?
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Old 02-28-2010, 07:10 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TGR View Post
I actually considered mentioning Right to Censor earlier, but decided it wasn't close enough to the topic.

Ultimately, I do have a problem with them portraying censors as such, but as this was the attitude era with the demographic being much older than it is now, it's not a problem in the same sense that the Drug Free Guy being a prick is today. It was just a problem of Vince McMahon being petty.

Stevie Richards did the best he could with it, though. I'd have a problem with the RTC in the WWPGE era. Not back in the attitude era.
I have news for you, when I was 7-10 in elementary school (up to 2000), wrestling was HUGE. Wrestling is ALWAYS huge with kids, whatever the rating is.

Would you say that if kids were watching during the Attitude Era (and they were) it would fall more on the parents?

And for the record, RAW and the Warzone, up until mid-99 (I suppose up to when they were re-evaluated for SmackDown!), were TV-PG.
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Old 02-28-2010, 07:13 PM   #116
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I hate this thread so much
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Old 02-28-2010, 09:20 PM   #117
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Would you say that if kids were watching during the Attitude Era (and they were) it would fall more on the parents?
Yes.

And while I'm not sure if this was just true because I was an hour later than I currently am, I recall Raw starting around 9PM and not ending till 11PM.

Quote:
How old were you during the Attitude Era, TGR?
I started watching regularly when Smackdown came on the air around late August of '99. I was...12 then, I think. Watched Raw only when I was at DaveWadding's house, so I pretty much got the sanitized network-friendly attitude era.

Stopped watching when Hunter fucked a corpse, and came back around last Christmas.
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Old 02-28-2010, 09:26 PM   #118
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Yes.

And while I'm not sure if this was just true because I was an hour later than I currently am, I recall Raw starting around 9PM and not ending till 11PM.
What? RAW's been 9 to 11PM since early 97. And still is. Don't see what you're talking about here, unless you're talking about timezone differences.
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Old 03-01-2010, 08:59 PM   #119
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I don't like how Triple H sold out necrophilia.
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