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Old 03-24-2013, 07:52 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
Triple H got thrown in pig shit.
And only 4 years later he was WWF Champion.

After his buddy Shawn got him involved in one of the hottest properties of the era (DX) and then he was consistently booked in the Midcard going toe-to-toe and often besting the likes of Ken Shamrock, Owen Hart, The Rock, etc.

That followed by a lot of booking support - and of course talent - led HHH to the top (we'll ignore the nepotism involved too as we've covered that. A lot.)

I'm not saying Ryder is the next icon. I'm not even saying it's not his fault he's where he is. I'm asking if YOU would attribute any of his failure to the way he was used. I know now that you wouldn't.

The "he got a shot and didn't take it" argument is stupid. Want an example of a guy that was thrown out there with a shit gimmick/shit booking/etc? Whatever happened to that Issac Yankem guy?

Ryder was over, you'd be stupid to argue that. Not just with the IWC/YouTube guys, he was legit over with entire crowds chanting for him (something the face of the company hasn't managed for years now). It just seems to me that beyond a token US Title win WWE did little to support the character. Is he amazing in the ring? No, he's servicable. Is he great on the mic? No, but he's decent enough. Is he Main Event material? Jesus, no. But he could be a VERY useful hand in the middle of the card. For example, a 2 month feud with Damian Sandow would have made for good TV and would have helped get Sandow over.
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:15 PM   #82
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Some of those guys will NEVER make it on their own, but have potential with teams, like Heath Slater has shown us in his days with Justin Gabriel.

Zack Ryder has midcard potential, but his inflexibility with the writing team will have him out of the door eventually- we have seen this entrance-less jobber trend too often to ignore, but a team with Riley would work for him.

Otunga is good with backstage and manager-esque roles ontop of half-decent ring skills. He is greatly under-used.

JTG only has a chance with an angle involving the Prime Time Players- and nothing else really but as a fifth wheel.

Drew, in my opinion, is being treated the most unfairly as he has the it-factor with the right angle. The rocker gimmick works for him more than it does the others in 3MB, and if he goes solo, it could be altered for something promising.

After Rey retires, Sin Cara and Yoshi Tatsu should make a formidable international masked tag-team, since we are yet to see a light or cruiserweight title return.

Jinder Mahal... yeah... having trouble finding a place for that one.

And why exactly are there divas on the list? You know when you come to work for WWE and you don't have a penis, your future is pretty murky.
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:30 PM   #83
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I miss Cryme Tyme.

They really should bring back Shad and re-unite the team. Tag division saved!
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:41 PM   #84
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Maybe they can finally get their tag title shot.
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:52 PM   #85
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BROOKLY BROOKLYN!!! Whacha gonna do! We're bringin the hood to you!
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:14 PM   #86
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McIntyre had his shot. He was endorsed on TV by Vincent Kennedy McMahon himself and he didn't stick. Fuck him.

Or, given that the guy is clearly talented, give him something more substantial to do. An allegiance with Regal in a mentor/tutor setup that sometimes tag together would be my first scenario. Failing that, team him with JTG and call him M.C. Intyre.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:40 PM   #87
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...or maybe he is nothing more than a solid ring hand who will help others look good. It isn't like he isn't making good money to do what he is doing.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:43 PM   #88
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Or go to Vince and say "I think I can get over this way. Either we do this or I'm leaving." Don't sit there and bitch and moan. Not everybody can be a huge star. Just because you are a good wrestler doesn't mean you will achieve the level of success you have always dreamed of. 2nd string quarterbacks are good football players, but they are what they are.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:44 PM   #89
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If I don't like my current position in a company and think I can do more and be more, I talk to my supervisors. If it can't/won't be done, then I go to another company.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:51 PM   #90
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Quote:
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And only 4 years later he was WWF Champion.

After his buddy Shawn got him involved in one of the hottest properties of the era (DX) and then he was consistently booked in the Midcard going toe-to-toe and often besting the likes of Ken Shamrock, Owen Hart, The Rock, etc.

That followed by a lot of booking support - and of course talent - led HHH to the top (we'll ignore the nepotism involved too as we've covered that. A lot.)

I'm not saying Ryder is the next icon. I'm not even saying it's not his fault he's where he is. I'm asking if YOU would attribute any of his failure to the way he was used. I know now that you wouldn't.

The "he got a shot and didn't take it" argument is stupid. Want an example of a guy that was thrown out there with a shit gimmick/shit booking/etc? Whatever happened to that Issac Yankem guy?

Ryder was over, you'd be stupid to argue that. Not just with the IWC/YouTube guys, he was legit over with entire crowds chanting for him (something the face of the company hasn't managed for years now). It just seems to me that beyond a token US Title win WWE did little to support the character. Is he amazing in the ring? No, he's servicable. Is he great on the mic? No, but he's decent enough. Is he Main Event material? Jesus, no. But he could be a VERY useful hand in the middle of the card. For example, a 2 month feud with Damian Sandow would have made for good TV and would have helped get Sandow over.
I agree with your points. All Ryder needed was the right type of year-long feud with the debut of his Long Island Iced Z gimmick, and that would have given additional purpose to his gimmick. But without such intense feuds, most fans are very limited in how much emotion they will put forth towards a new or repackaged character.

If WWE Creative had cared, then they could have written a several-month feud for Ryder for when he returned from injuries around last August, and if they did, then Vince applied the brakes.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:56 PM   #91
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He had a dramatic chase for the U.S. Championship and won it on PPV. At the end of the day, most people will never give fuck about Ryder because he isn't good enough for them to. He is average in the ring and below-average on the mic.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:57 PM   #92
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He had Cena and Punk putting him over constantly. It still wasn't enough.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:59 PM   #93
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Zack Ryder is a very likeable guy, but he isn't a big time superstar. He had months where he was "hot" and then it faded. Flash in the pan.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:02 PM   #94
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Quote:
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Zack Ryder is a very likeable guy, but he isn't a big time superstar. He had months where he was "hot" and then it faded. Flash in the pan.
You make valid arguments. My only gripe was his feud with Ziggler for the U.S. Title was cut short, as Ryder never received a rematch.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:05 PM   #95
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Zach Ryder had his shot here and he failed. Daniel Bryan had a hot streak until it faded. He evolved and found a way to become truly established.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:08 PM   #96
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The best Zack Ryder could come up with when CM Punk gave him the mic is that?!?! Writers or no writers, he had a chance their to change his perception of goofball comedy midcarder. He didn't.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:08 PM   #97
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Quote:
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Zach Ryder had his shot here and he failed. Daniel Bryan had a hot streak until it faded. He evolved and found a way to become truly established.
I have to stop identifying emotionally with Ryder, because caring for a lost cause only brings disappointment.

I'll still respect him for what he's tried and for his handful of accomplishments, e.g. going to WWE in the first place, but won't advocate any longer. It was a fun experiment but ultimately not something I envision myself doing any longer.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:13 PM   #98
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I agree with Turd
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:19 PM   #99
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I agree with Turd
Why thank you, Shisen!

I emailed Zack at the email longislandicedz@gmail.com to show him my over-long post about post-WrestleMania ideas, but he did not write back. So right there, he lost a little of my support.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:27 PM   #100
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Fuck him then! WWE should get rid of him.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:41 PM   #101
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It's not like I bought any of his merch or Hoeski downloads anyway, so I was never a diehard fan. And telling from his retweets of fans wearing his merch, it becomes apparent Ryder is in it for the money above all. That's why huge dudes like that totally-not-Tazz-Dan pic in the 1,000,001 Replies thread get recognized by Zack, because Ryder wants to rewards purchases of his gaudy-looking junk.

And now I'm actually beginning to dislike Ryder for being manipulative. He's actually just like Eve!
[devil horns]
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:50 PM   #102
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I'm not sure what people think he could have attained. He was U.S champ, was on T.V constantly.. he's nowhere near a main event guy and if he were to get the title back, people would bitch that Cesaro or some other no charisma fuck didn't.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:52 PM   #103
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Triple H got thrown in pig shit.
HHH is still in pig shit. It's called Stephanie's vag.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:57 PM   #104
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At least his dick has never had a yeast infection.
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:10 PM   #105
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The hell cares about getting a yeast infection and let me tell ya, I've got worse than that!
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:15 PM   #106
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If you get every disease known to man they cancel each other out. Simpsons did it.
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:17 PM   #107
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I posted to the wrong thread initially, but here it is:

OK, I know there's been too much said about Ryder already in this thread, but a parting idea: He'd fit better in the Attitude Era because then he'd be able to more explicitly reference his Long Island drinks and partying, as well as transition into a heel stalker ex-boyfriend character. But that will never fly in PG-era WWE, and given TNA's current "no man-on-woman violence" policy, a character like that would only get his ass beat week in and week out, definitely not a threatening character like a real-life stalking ex-boyfriend would be.

So for now, Ryder's doing alright to be making money like he is.
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:20 PM   #108
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James Steele hit this thread out of the park about Ryder. I second all motions made
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:38 AM   #109
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I like Zack Ryder enough. The guy is decent in the ring (especially when working as a heel), and he's clearly passionate and has done well to get himself over. That being said, there are some points on Ryder that I'd like to address:

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
Fuck. I hate agreeing with Gertner.

They gave him plenty of chances to "click" when he got his internet fanbase and he never did. The whole Jersey Shore gimmick is DOA now anyway. Evolve or die.
I agree with this. Ryder's gimmick is stupid and we've never been given a proper reason to cheer for it within the canon of WWE television. Is that Ryder's fault? Maybe a little but probably not. It would have been time to get serious against Kane last year, but that never happened. Ryder was forced to act and that was a stupid decision on everyone's behalf.

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Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla View Post
Zack Ryder's mic work is horrendous. I haven't "believed" a word he's said on TV. Maybe it's just because of the character and he'd be more capable otherwise, but I'm glad he's not a focal point right now.
This is pretty much true. For a guy that has sold himself with his personality, he is pretty bad on the mic. Hopefully he can work with a guy like Paul Heyman to get better, or altercations to his persona allows for less cheesy delivery. But yeah, Ryder is actually a really bad promo.

Zack Ryder could have been used better, and he still could be. With WrestleMania being in his hometown, the WWE are foolish if they don't use him to get someone over or do something at the show. Have him win the US Title from Cesaro with help from Curt Hawkins and Santino Marella and tease a little face pack getting together or anything. If that fails, then it might be time to reassess where they stand on Ryder's potential as a babyface mid-carder, and then a bitter heel turn can happen.

The WWE should consider it to move some merchandise for a little bit. When you've got the chance to make some money, do so.
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:30 AM   #110
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I find myself agreeing to what everyone is saying about Ryder's mic work.

It is pretty bad and it is pretty cheesy at times. There are times where I find myself feeling awkward just listening to him on the mic. Though with that said, I also find myself liking his backstage material. When he's interacting with other wrestlers, he's fine. It's just when he's talking on a mic and to the audience he's pretty bad.

It's like he isn't comfortable with a mic in his hand/face.

As for his gimmick, it's been said before but it's dead now. It's ran it's course. I hate to be "one of those guys" but I actually do think a turn would help Ryder. It won't help him become WWE Champion or anything, but it would refresh him. Drop the "Guido gimmick" and just be a badass. Lose the bright, thick plastic sunglasses, get some stubble and just have the gimmick of your everyday asshole. The kind of guys you see on nights out that are with a hot girl and if they catch you even looking in her direction, they'll want to kill you.

Drop the "Woo Woo Woo" part and just say "You Know It", along with no fist pumping. It's cliché but just forget about the fans, don't even acknowledge their presence at times and just be pissed off during matches. Eye up Divas who are taken and be somewhat of a pig towards them.

Along with all that, he should be somewhat bitter. He should go after people who doubted him, called him a goof in the past and the present (Cole & Striker) and just hate John Cena for what he did to him in the past. Having a short fued with Cena would help his new side get noticed, though he wouldn't necessary need to win the fued.

A turn on Santino or even Scott Stanford would be a good way to get the "New Ryder" started.
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:48 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool King View Post
I find myself agreeing to what everyone is saying about Ryder's mic work.

It is pretty bad and it is pretty cheesy at times. There are times where I find myself feeling awkward just listening to him on the mic. Though with that said, I also find myself liking his backstage material. When he's interacting with other wrestlers, he's fine. It's just when he's talking on a mic and to the audience he's pretty bad.

It's like he isn't comfortable with a mic in his hand/face.

As for his gimmick, it's been said before but it's dead now. It's ran it's course. I hate to be "one of those guys" but I actually do think a turn would help Ryder. It won't help him become WWE Champion or anything, but it would refresh him. Drop the "Guido gimmick" and just be a badass. Lose the bright, thick plastic sunglasses, get some stubble and just have the gimmick of your everyday asshole. The kind of guys you see on nights out that are with a hot girl and if they catch you even looking in her direction, they'll want to kill you.

Drop the "Woo Woo Woo" part and just say "You Know It", along with no fist pumping. It's cliché but just forget about the fans, don't even acknowledge their presence at times and just be pissed off during matches. Eye up Divas who are taken and be somewhat of a pig towards them.

Along with all that, he should be somewhat bitter. He should go after people who doubted him, called him a goof in the past and the present (Cole & Striker) and just hate John Cena for what he did to him in the past. Having a short fued with Cena would help his new side get noticed, though he wouldn't necessary need to win the fued.

A turn on Santino or even Scott Stanford would be a good way to get the "New Ryder" started.
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES
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Old 03-25-2013, 03:16 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Zack Ryder could have been used better, and he still could be. With WrestleMania being in his hometown, the WWE are foolish if they don't use him to get someone over or do something at the show. Have him win the US Title from Cesaro with help from Curt Hawkins and Santino Marella and tease a little face pack getting together or anything. If that fails, then it might be time to reassess where they stand on Ryder's potential as a babyface mid-carder, and then a bitter heel turn can happen.
If his recent tweets are any indication, he already realized or knew a couple of weeks ago the WWE has absolutely nothing planned for him to do at Mania.

Been joking a lot that his feud or segment for the day will be with catering since he would be figuring out what he wants to eat for the day. Also been telling family and friends who are traveling to the show that he won't be on it.
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:52 PM   #113
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I hope they find some way to completely bury him and end his career at WrestleMania. Have him job to a 5 year old Make-A-Wish child. Bitch on twitter about not getting pushed and then you wonder why you don't get a push...
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Old 03-25-2013, 05:20 PM   #114
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It's sad that Ryder sucks on the mic. Some people I could care less because they just aren't likeable. I always wanted to see Ryder "figure it out" or something.

That being said, he was good for a one-off, quick push like he got. Nothing long-term. I do wish they would have given the Eve story a better ending. Maybe having her team up with another guy and Ryder find pair up with another diva all leading to a mixed tag match at WrestleMania last year where Ryder gets the win as a big "fuck you, cunt" to Eve.
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Old 03-25-2013, 05:42 PM   #115
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Greatest moment of Zack's career was when he was struggling to change that tire while trying to run from Kane. Brilliant TV.
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:27 PM   #116
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lol. Weren't there multiple commercial breaks and possibly a full match during the time it took him to change the tire?
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Old 03-26-2013, 12:31 AM   #117
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HHH is still in pig shit. It's called Stephanie's vag.
If Steph's vag is pig shit, cover me in it!
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Old 03-26-2013, 02:54 AM   #118
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lol. Weren't there multiple commercial breaks and possibly a full match during the time it took him to change the tire?
To be fair, it was a foreign car.
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Old 03-26-2013, 02:54 AM   #119
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Fuckin' communist lugnuts.
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:45 AM   #120
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Zack Ryder's ambition could just as easily be a heel trait as a face trait. A "Sucking up to you people don't do me no good" heel Ryder could be a lot of fun. God, I would love to see The Rock kill him on the mic.
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