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Old 11-25-2016, 12:05 PM   #81
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I would destroy Curtis Axel. Said it for years and he knows it.
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Old 11-25-2016, 01:31 PM   #82
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I would destroy Curtis Axel. Said it for years and he knows it.
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Old 11-25-2016, 01:33 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Juan View Post
I don't think I've ever seen/met a wrestling fan that could "take" any WWE wrestler lol
Pretty sure I could kick Scott Hall's ass with 1 hand tied behind my back.
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Old 11-25-2016, 01:41 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #BrotherVito DELETED View Post
But if they're trying to draw in kids - I don't think kids are terribly picky about their wrasslers. Smaller guys probably appeal to them more than adults because when a kid sees a smaller wrestler succeeding it could make them think that someday, they could do the same thing. Basically I think if a kid likes wrestling they're going to eat it up no matter who's on.
To be fair, to most kids any wrestler is probably a hugely larger than life personality. I remember watching WCW back in the day (born in '87 so you figure it out), and even guys like Juventud Guerrera and Lash LaRoux were all "huge superstars" to me.

I know wrestling fans today are generally more "educated" and the business has opened up a lot since the 90's, but kids are still kids.
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Old 11-25-2016, 02:28 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitch_h View Post
It's a variable that doesn't really mean shit. I'm not trying to argue that small, work rate guys are huge draws or anything like that.

The 80s boom was about the dismantling of the territories, and the rise of cable television and PPV. The attitude era's popularity was founded on a complete pivot away from what wrestling was at the time. It was Sable's tits, crotch chops, and a cool, beer drinking, redneck beating up his boss. It had nothing to do with big, roided up guys.

Personally I don't think this level of popularity is ever coming back. But I do think WWE can find a way to tell cool, exciting stories again, and they don't need massive guys to do so.
The thing that a lot of people gloss over is that even though ratings are way down from its peak, it's still an episodic program that has been consistently one of the most watched things on cable every single week. No other shows can lay the same claim and produce the amount of product WWE does.

I look at something like TWD, which has amazing ratings, but have been in steady decline for some time now. Eventually the show will pewter out and disappear. Meanehile, I could easily see 20 years from now WWE still having programming in the top 10 in cable every week.

I think it's very possible to see ratings come back, it just takes the right personalities at the right time. There was a time when people said game shows were dead. Then things like Millionaire came around and suddenly they were all the rage. Now they're dead again. It's the nature of people who follow fads.

The cool thing about being a sports entertainment fan in the modern era is for only $10 a month, you get access to so much great programming, and I really believe there's something for everyone. The NXT stuff appeals to the hardcore wrestling fan, 205 will appeal to fans of smaller guys, the future women's show will appeal to another subset. On top of that you can watch any era from the past at your leisure. Plus get all the new content and the original programming they have spearheaded.

So I think you're left with a scenario where perhaps fewer people are watching on traditionsl platforms, but you're growing the base of fans that provide revenue to the company by providing them more and more bang for their buck. As a fan of the product that's a good thing. If I was the type of person that needs to have 7 million people watching what I'm watching because I need that validation from others, then I likely will be disappointed.
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Old 11-25-2016, 02:40 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Just the other day I heard two guys at the pub talking about UFC. These are the sort of guys that would make fun of a guy for liking "fake pussy" wrestling. They were talking about one of the guys in one of the fights -- I dunno, but it was the heel. And I say heel, because they were honestly talking about the guy being a cocky prick they want to see get his shit sorted.

You can still work people in 2016. A lot of people didn't know what the fuck was going on with CM Punk in 2011. People got fucking worked by The Miz talking shit to Daniel Bryan on a SmackDown post-show. You get guys that people think could beat the shit out of each other, and you can convey the idea that their ego won't allow them to be walked over, because they're the real deal -- you've got potential draws.

Everybody is so convinced that wrestling is an indy circle jerk that no one even fucking tries anymore. The Revival tried and got heat with Bubba Ray Dudley and Road Dogg for fuck's sake.
You can't compare wanting to see someone get their ass kicked in UFC vs. wanting to see someone get fake beat up in sports entertainment. It's like saying if the Joker-Batman dynamic in The Dark Knight movie was good enough, you would want to see Joker get beat up as much as people wanted to see Bin Laden killed for 9/11.

You mentioned CM Punk, I don't think anyone outside regular sports entertainment fans knew anything about that angle. And further I don't know anyone with a decent amount of intelligence thought that was anything other than an angle. And it wasn't even that great of an angle to begin with because CM Punk had no credibility. He was claiming to be the best, but he was clearly inferior to the guy who was in the ring while he was cutting the promo.

I can't think of any angles in the last 20 years that people thought was legit.
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Old 11-25-2016, 02:52 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #BrotherVito DELETED View Post
Just stop with the 50/50 booking bullshit. No matter who you're pushing - big guy, small guy, whatever...you don't need every wrestler on the goddamn roster trading wins with each other every week. And don't have two guys who are supposed to have a marquee PPV match wrestle each other 4854395894859 times in the build up to that PPV. Certainly not in singles action and if it's a tag match, the heel champion should want to tag the fuck out as soon as the guy he's feuding gets tagged in. Give people a reason to want to see the face get his hands on the heel at the PPV.
This is an overblown complaint that I just don't understand.

Look at MMA. The programs that go to three fights almost always do better by the time they get to the third fight.

In the Attitude Era, guys traded wins all the time. I believe Rock and Mick had 7 major TV or PPV matches in which they went back and forth with wins. All of their PPVs did well, and they drew very strong ratings. Rock and Hunter went back and forth and continued to do huge numbers. Austin and Taker exchanged wins and then did one of biggest TV ratings in cable wrestling history.

The difference between then and now is Rock was superior to Roman Reigns, Austin superior to Dean Ambrose, HHH superior to Seth Rollins, Foley superior to Kevin Owens, Taker superior to Bray Wyatt, HBK superior to AJ Styles and on and on.
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Old 11-25-2016, 05:43 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
The thing that a lot of people gloss over is that even though ratings are way down from its peak, it's still an episodic program that has been consistently one of the most watched things on cable every single week. No other shows can lay the same claim and produce the amount of product WWE does.

I look at something like TWD, which has amazing ratings, but have been in steady decline for some time now. Eventually the show will pewter out and disappear. Meanehile, I could easily see 20 years from now WWE still having programming in the top 10 in cable every week.

I think it's very possible to see ratings come back, it just takes the right personalities at the right time ...

The cool thing about being a sports entertainment fan in the modern era is for only $10 a month, you get access to so much great programming, and I really believe there's something for everyone. The NXT stuff appeals to the hardcore wrestling fan, 205 will appeal to fans of smaller guys, the future women's show will appeal to another subset. On top of that you can watch any era from the past at your leisure. Plus get all the new content and the original programming they have spearheaded.
at using TWD again to claim the WWE is better. You did this several times before and each time forgetting how massive TWD viewer base is compared to WWE's and their drops following the traditional pattern for tv show seasons. Meanwhile WWE has been dropping yearly ever since the end of the Attitude Era with the 3 Hour Era producing larger yearly drops. WWE's pretty much down to their core audience since Cena wasn't able to bring in the next gen of long term fans.

This season had the 2nd highest ever premiere in series history and improved from the previous premiere. It is trending downward but is also very early in the season so worst case scenario for this season is maybe Season 3 numbers which would still put it around 3x larger than WWE's overall.

You also way overestimating how valuable the Network is to the mainstream and wrestling fans or else WWE wouldn't be struggling to sell Network subs at the rate they were expecting by now. They expected 3-4 million by now and only have around half of it in terms of paid subs.
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Old 11-25-2016, 06:22 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan View Post
I don't think I've ever seen/met a wrestling fan that could "take" any WWE wrestler lol
This is a moot point. It's about perception. I don't get where this tough guy perception of Kevin Owens comes from. The company is too afraid to let Owens take off his shirt.
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Old 11-25-2016, 06:24 PM   #90
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CyNick logic: Discredits link between MMA and wrestling in one post; in the next links MMA and wrestling. Nice job, Nicky. You're a hack. Get the fuck out.
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Old 11-25-2016, 06:25 PM   #91
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I think it was Vito who said he would rather have a loud crowd than a quiet crowd. Are the crowds today even loud? They go mild for most shit.
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Old 11-25-2016, 06:31 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
I look at something like TWD, which has amazing ratings, but have been in steady decline for some time now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smelly Meatball View Post
at using TWD again to claim the WWE is better. You did this several times before and each time forgetting how massive TWD viewer base is compared to WWE's and their drops following the traditional pattern for tv show seasons. Meanwhile WWE has been dropping yearly ever since the end of the Attitude Era with the 3 Hour Era producing larger yearly drops. WWE's pretty much down to their core audience since Cena wasn't able to bring in the next gen of long term fans.
The Walking Dead average ratings per episode (in millions)...

Season 1: 5.24
Season 2: 6.90
Season 3: 10.40
Season 4: 13.30
Season 5: 14.40
Season 6: 13.15
Season 7: TBD

The Walking Dead season premiere ratings...
Season 1: 5.35
Season 2: 7.26
Season 3: 10.87
Season 4: 16.11
Season 5: 17.30
Season 6: 14.63
Season 7: 17.03

Man. Look at that steady decline.

Again, for everyone who still wishes to take The CyNick seriously... just... come on...
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Old 11-25-2016, 06:50 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Destor View Post
Id argue that punk pulled in departed hardcore fans that had moved on to being full time indy fans. Not casuals.
Yeah, you're probably right, but he made an uptick of viewers in general and a lot of that analysis also focused on the whole year when his appeal had already been squashed at Summerslam. If he did have more mainstream appeal, that was all turned off within a month.

I think the whole 50/50 booking thing is driving away casual fans. What's the point in the weekly shows? Since the brand split, Smackdown has gotten better at this, but it doesn't matter who won on Raw at all since it doesn't advance anything. The only people tuning in will be these hoping for a good match.
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Old 11-25-2016, 08:15 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
This is a moot point. It's about perception. I don't get where this tough guy perception of Kevin Owens comes from. The company is too afraid to let Owens take off his shirt.
Who cares if he wears a shirt? If I'm in a bar, Kevin Owens looks like one of the last people I'd want to fuck with.
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Old 11-25-2016, 08:37 PM   #95
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Really? Are you being serious?
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Old 11-25-2016, 09:06 PM   #96
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Really? Are you being serious?
I wouldn't want to mess with him. Fat doesn't mean unfit or a pussy.
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Old 11-25-2016, 09:09 PM   #97
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You people are silly.
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Old 11-25-2016, 09:29 PM   #98
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I've never been hit harder in my life than being hit by someone built like owens. He would Def be one of the last people I'd pick a fight with.
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Old 11-25-2016, 09:32 PM   #99
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I can't imagine what type of world you live in if you don't think Kevin Owens looks like somebody who could believably kick a dude's ass. Especially compared to many of the smaller dudes on the roster.
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Old 11-25-2016, 10:01 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #BrotherVito DELETED View Post
Who cares if he wears a shirt? If I'm in a bar, Kevin Owens looks like one of the last people I'd want to fuck with.
Noid wants to see those glistening pecs.
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Old 11-25-2016, 10:06 PM   #101
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In all honesty I think a lot of the people in here saying Owens doesn't look like he could kick someone's ass haven't actually been in many real fights. I'm no badass (in fact I'm quite the chicken-shit) but I've been hit enough times to know that you don't need the kind of muscles a Lesnar or Goldberg has to hurt someone.
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Old 11-25-2016, 10:22 PM   #102
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If Owens fucked your girlfriend/wife would you go after him? If Lesnar fucked your girlfriend/wife would you go after him? AJ? Cena?

Even in the heat of the moment I would cower to Cena and Lesnar.
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Old 11-25-2016, 10:22 PM   #103
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Anyways this thread has reached a terrible point. Sad day. Thought it had a lot of legs left too.
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Old 11-25-2016, 11:41 PM   #104
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I wouldn't want to mess with him. Fat doesn't mean unfit or a pussy.
No, but come on. And, for the record, I think Kevin Owens must be fit as fuck to do the things he can do. Just don't tell me you're more afraid of him than Samoa Joe. Or even a 50-year old Undertaker. Or Brock Lesnar.
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Old 11-25-2016, 11:45 PM   #105
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Anyways this thread has reached a terrible point. Sad day. Thought it had a lot of legs left too.
I agree with this.
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Old 11-25-2016, 11:53 PM   #106
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This discussion is so stupid in a "my dad could beat up your dad" kind of way, but I genuinely feel sorry for all you guys that are scared of Kevin Owens. Like, fair played to enjoying his ring work and being a fan of the things the guy can do -- but to actually be the last person you'd fuck with in a bar? Good lord. This is the last I am going to say on such a ridiculous subject.
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Old 11-25-2016, 11:54 PM   #107
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Anyway, you might have missed #1-wwf-fan destroying "expert debater" CyNick again. I recommend checking that out.
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Old 11-26-2016, 01:13 AM   #108
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Really pisses me off when crowds do tired chants time after time. Seems like any face wins a title and in their first promo the crowd is already doing loud "YOU DESERVE IT!" chants. It's becoming the new "WHAT?!", which seriously just needs to stop.
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Old 11-26-2016, 01:27 AM   #109
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Nothing wrong with the fans showing respect like that. WHAT is a distraction.
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Old 11-26-2016, 02:29 AM   #110
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Quote:
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If Owens fucked your girlfriend/wife would you go after him? If Lesnar fucked your girlfriend/wife would you go after him? AJ? Cena?

Even in the heat of the moment I would cower to Cena and Lesnar.
I wouldn't go after anyone in that situation because neither prison nor a hospital sound good to me. Besides if anything I'd be more pissed at my wife than I was at the guy.
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Old 11-26-2016, 02:56 AM   #111
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Nothing wrong with the fans showing respect like that. WHAT is a distraction.
Not every face champion is deserving just because Vince thinks so. Lot of them aren't over at all and still get titles they shouldn't have.
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Old 11-26-2016, 06:15 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruien View Post
If Owens fucked your girlfriend/wife would you go after him? If Lesnar fucked your girlfriend/wife would you go after him? AJ? Cena?

Even in the heat of the moment I would cower to Cena and Lesnar.
Would you write them a stern letter instead?
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Old 11-26-2016, 06:44 AM   #113
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Well well well, look what the cat dragged in
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Old 11-26-2016, 06:54 AM   #114
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I dunno

Smark era has given us a lot of really good matches. Could probably use more good big guys. They are impressive to see and all that, but I'll take Cena vs Styles and Owens vs Zayn over Braun vs Rowan any day.
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Old 11-26-2016, 08:17 AM   #115
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I couldn't care less about those really good matches anymore because none of it matters. Like the broken one known as Hasney said above...

Quote:
Originally Posted by #BROKEN Hasney View Post
it doesn't matter who won on Raw at all since it doesn't advance anything. The only people tuning in will be these hoping for a good match.
Cesaro and Dolph Ziggler put on a technical classic. Cool. I have no interest in it. Neither one gains or loses anything from it. It's just two dudes fighting ultimately for nothing because we're in an era where it's been made perfectly clear that there's no consequence to any match unless it's a direct one like for a title or some other kind of reward. And the titles don't really mean shit anymore so even that can only capture my interest so much.
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Old 11-26-2016, 08:20 AM   #116
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At least Raw has brought back squash matches which I'm all for. They actually serve a purpose. They're an exhibition to show one guy's dominance. It means SOMETHING. Much more than the 5 star match between two 50/50 booked guys that you know will lead to nothing.
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Old 11-26-2016, 08:27 AM   #117
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Yeah, and I think that's why a lot of Survivor Series fell flat for me as well. I mean, what were the stakes? Why should I got which TV program got the W?
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Old 11-26-2016, 08:46 AM   #118
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I wouldn't go after anyone in that situation because neither prison nor a hospital sound good to me. Besides if anything I'd be more pissed at my wife than I was at the guy.
Oh my lord. Fine, say they murdered your mother.
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Old 11-26-2016, 08:49 AM   #119
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Quote:
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At least Raw has brought back squash matches which I'm all for. They actually serve a purpose. They're an exhibition to show one guy's dominance. It means SOMETHING. Much more than the 5 star match between two 50/50 booked guys that you know will lead to nothing.
Agreed. I am all for 50/50 booking when you have mid-card guys in no where land when they are going against each other. But you need the dominate guys who win 80 to 90% of the time.

Could not agree more with caring less about good matches. I see 'classics' on every ppv now.
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Old 11-26-2016, 08:54 AM   #120
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50/50 booking is fine sometimes. Some guys are equals. It makes sense. When it's happening across the board with just about every feud so that everyone is equal though, it helps no one and makes everything seem pointless.
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