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Old 01-07-2009, 10:39 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Lux View Post
Who really is... John Cena. Answer me that.
Destor.
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Old 01-07-2009, 11:03 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
Your saying that Stone Colds storylines were boring, his gimmick bland and in need of a freshen up? Towards the end he needed something new, but comparing it to Cena is horrible.
No, I'm saying they spent all their time trying to build him up as the anti-authority, anti-hero odds-beater. They saw a heel that the fans were eager to get behind, like Austin had been, but they screwed up when instead of riding the wave the fans dictated, they turned him into a face while stripping him of a lot of the qualities that made him popular.
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Old 01-07-2009, 11:04 PM   #83
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I hate Cena cause he wrestles in sneakers.
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Old 01-07-2009, 11:16 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Destor View Post
I hate Cena cause he wrestles in sneakers.
But you are John Cena....
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Old 01-08-2009, 10:41 PM   #85
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John Cena as a company man = Great.
John Cena's in-ring ability = Great. Yeah, it's debatable, but I think he's a pretty solid wrestler.
John Cena the character = Utter crap.

I still have no clue why the WWE stripped his character of all his redeeming qualities. He gives Rock-like promos where he is not funny, and his year-long title reign in 2006-2007 was one of the most ridiculous reigns I've seen. Two PPV matches with Umaga and two PPV matches with Khali? Yeah, I wonder who will win those matches...

It was obvious that at no point in his feud with Orton were the WWE going to let Orton go over him. I was actually relieved Cena went on the shelf because it forced them to use Orton. Then, in 2008, we have Jericho in his prime and what do they do? Have Cena beat him for the title on his first night back, then decisively beat him again the next PPV just to make sure we all know who's the boss.

I wish the WWE would push him like a top-level talent and give him some character rather than trying to push him as the franchise of the WWE.
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Old 01-08-2009, 10:52 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedamndest View Post
People in Laos probably don't hate Cena.
They do prefer the Whopper to Cena though.
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Old 01-08-2009, 11:29 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Naitch View Post
Personally, I would rather see Cena sell out and align himself with a McMahon as his heel turn. Just a way of him thanking the McMahons for selling so much of his merchandise. The McMahons then start putting his face on every kind of product. "You Can't See Me Laundry Detergent", "The Champ is Here Cereal", the list can go on and on.
That is exactly how I could see a heel turn going down. Instead of Cena wearing a suit, or anything, Vince just starts pimping himself out in John Cena gear.
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Old 01-08-2009, 11:30 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by redoneja View Post
They do prefer the Whopper to Cena though.
John Cena once walked into a McDonalds and ordered a Whopper and got one.
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Old 01-08-2009, 11:35 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
I hate Cena cause he wrestles in sneakers.
I actually really hate that, too. A wrestler should probably wear proper wrestling attire. What style is up to the wrestler, but wearing clothes you'd wear down the street is pretty ridiculous, to be honest.

I also really hate his music, and how overproduced his entrances are.

And Halo was pretty shit, really.
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Old 01-08-2009, 11:40 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
I actually really hate that, too. A wrestler should probably wear proper wrestling attire. What style is up to the wrestler, but wearing clothes you'd wear down the street is pretty ridiculous, to be honest.

I also really hate his music, and how overproduced his entrances are.

And Halo was pretty shit, really.

It makes him look stupid.

His music makes him look worse.

His entrance kills.

Halo 2 is teh winzorz!
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Old 01-08-2009, 11:41 PM   #91
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Eh?
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Old 01-09-2009, 12:04 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
I actually really hate that, too. A wrestler should probably wear proper wrestling attire. What style is up to the wrestler, but wearing clothes you'd wear down the street is pretty ridiculous, to be honest.

I also really hate his music, and how overproduced his entrances are.

And Halo was pretty shit, really.
LOL, the man can wear what he wishes as long as it doesn't affect his co-workers, quit bitching you stupid women!
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Old 01-09-2009, 12:05 AM   #93
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Just gives us back the old Cena, thats all I'm saying.
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Old 01-09-2009, 12:09 AM   #94
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Fuck I miss bearable Cena.
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Old 01-09-2009, 01:47 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux View Post
LOL, the man can wear what he wishes as long as it doesn't affect his co-workers, quit bitching you stupid women!
Not when it makes it look like he's condescending the industry. It'd be like a swimmer wearing jeans when he swam.
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Old 01-09-2009, 04:47 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Not when it makes it look like he's condescending the industry. It'd be like a swimmer wearing jeans when he swam.
Comparing jeans and water to sneakers and a wrestling ring, smooth. Not two different things. He shows passion and a love for the business and shows and honors it in his own way. Boohooo.
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Old 01-09-2009, 05:59 AM   #97
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At least he's not naked

Or wearing a wig

Or wearing sunglasses

Or wearing a belly shirt

Etc.

I've got a few things against Cena, but bitching about his sneakers is pretty stupid.
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Old 01-09-2009, 06:14 AM   #98
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Of course the easy answer to this question is that I am not under the age of 14, nor am I a female, therefore I do not fit his demographic and will still continue to hate him.
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Old 01-09-2009, 07:09 AM   #99
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But why hate him?

Seems most of us are in agreement that we dislike the way he has been used - his bland character, his by-the-numbers promos, endless pushes, etc.

Personally I think Cena is a blessing to an industry that the general media makes out to be populated by drug-addled, roided-out, painkiller poppers (I'm not saying that that assessment isn't true). He seems to be a nice guy, loves wrestling and can work a decent match - Vince just needs to let him.
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Old 01-09-2009, 09:28 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by HBKool96 View Post
he's a good guy who does what right. let's compare cena to other wrestlers with wwe.

will regal- when was the last time cena got suspended for drugs?
randy orton- i can't make any jokes about cena using too many headlocks.
mvp- cena has never been on a losing streak.
val venis- at least cena gets time on tv.
edge- cena beat edge at his own match, the tlc.
mark henry- at least cena doesn't need a manager.
jillian hall- i bet cena's album outsold hers.
chris jericho- cena is a better wrestler, which is why he has had more titles.
mankind- cena still wrestles for the biggest company.


he's better than them.
*facepalm*
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Old 01-09-2009, 09:38 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Not when it makes it look like he's condescending the industry. It'd be like a swimmer wearing jeans when he swam.
We are SO not sitting with him at lunch.
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Old 01-09-2009, 09:59 AM   #102
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Edge has Cage
Fixed
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Old 01-09-2009, 10:03 AM   #103
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Quote:
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I hate Cena cause he wrestles in sneakers.
I hate Cena coz he stole my bike!
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Old 01-09-2009, 01:59 PM   #104
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If you told the full story he wouldn't come off as the bad guy though.

See, I have it on good authority that Guru Dave wasn't alone when his bike was stolen by Mr Cena. On the contary, he was in a group that consisted of (but was not limited to) a very hungry Mike Tyson, Chuck Liddell and Brock Lesnar (fresh off reading something written about him on the interweb).

It was quite miraculous how Cena managed to overcome the odds to steal the bike at all.
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Old 01-09-2009, 02:40 PM   #105
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I hate Cena coz he stole my bike!
Wigger stole my bike!
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Old 01-09-2009, 02:50 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehazeeffect View Post





Just gives us back the old Cena, thats all I'm saying.
lol people pooped because he said PS2
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Old 01-09-2009, 10:04 PM   #107
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People pooped over PS2?
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Old 01-09-2009, 11:22 PM   #108
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with all the lame excues for why people don't like john cena would anyone be happy if he was a bad guy? i wouldn't be happy with that.
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Old 01-10-2009, 05:49 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HBKool96 View Post
with all the lame excues for why people don't like john cena would anyone be happy if he was a bad guy? i wouldn't be happy with that.
I think it is safe to say you would be in the minority.
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Old 01-10-2009, 09:55 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HBKool96 View Post
with all the lame excues for why people don't like john cena would anyone be happy if he was a bad guy? i wouldn't be happy with that.
He doesn't really need to be a "bad guy." He got over by doing bad things, and was still cheered. He was actually somewhat edgy, and he got strong responses.

I think the "just turn him heel" solution is smark "logic," and it really doesn't work that way, so I doubt I'd be happy if they turned him heel. But he doesn't need to be a complete babyface, either.
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Old 01-13-2009, 09:15 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
People generally dislike Cena because he's a G-rated paper-cut personality attached to a boringly rigid moveset. He's one of the most pretentious acts in the company, and although he's actually a talented wrestler, they never let him work to his in-ring strengths.
I'd say people generally dislike Cena because he is the company man and people cannot stand it (I say people, i mean smarks, which are like people but with delusions of grandure). They do not want to cheer for someone who is, lets be blunt about, aimed at children. But guess what? This isn't the Attitude Era any more. Those fans are long gone watching MMA. WWE is so low in the ratings now because the fans moved on at around 2001, when the Attitude Era was still in play. WWE's decision to go PG is the smartest thing they have done in a long time. Going PG means they get their audience young. That audience is going to grow up loving WWE and most will continue to watch well into their teens. Then they will be adults, and they will still be loyal to WWE. This is a smart direction and has proven successful 1001 times before.

What is rigid about a flying rocker dropper, by the way?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid
He's always the champion for some reason too, which is just boring. And even though he sells merchandise, Cena has not proven to be a massive draw, in the most traditional sense of the word.
"Always"? If he was always champion he'd have won the title at No Mercy or Mania when he returned, but he didn't. They kepts the title on Orton, and while CM Punk was champion he was well out of the way. This is his first title reign in a year.

And what exactly do you mean by "traditional sense of the word"? His return made RAW ratings increase by .4, he is selling more merchandise than anyone else, and has more gatesales than most guys in WWE. In what sense is he not a massive draw?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid
Plus, he did those God-awful things to the WWE Title and US Title, for which he may never be forgiven.
Merchandise = Money. It was ingenious of WWE to do it, especially since titles are nothing more than props.
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Old 01-13-2009, 11:11 PM   #112
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Your last sentence says wonders about how you look at wrestling, Darc.
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Old 01-14-2009, 10:02 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darc View Post
I'd say people generally dislike Cena because he is the company man and people cannot stand it (I say people, i mean smarks, which are like people but with delusions of grandure).
The hate predates him being "the company man." Smarks or otherwise, it's hard to call this the cause of the hate, since it comes afterwards.

Quote:
They do not want to cheer for someone who is, lets be blunt about, aimed at children.
Again, booed before then. Not that I can't empathise with adults in a market which courts the male 18-34 demo while their number one guy is courting children.

But enough about Vince's sex life....

Quote:
But guess what? This isn't the Attitude Era any more. Those fans are long gone watching MMA. WWE is so low in the ratings now because the fans moved on at around 2001, when the Attitude Era was still in play. WWE's decision to go PG is the smartest thing they have done in a long time. Going PG means they get their audience young. That audience is going to grow up loving WWE and most will continue to watch well into their teens. Then they will be adults, and they will still be loyal to WWE. This is a smart direction and has proven successful 1001 times before.
Untrue.

WWE maintained solid ratings leaving the Attitude Era. While they could no longer maintain 6-8.0 ratings, what they did was not only respectable, but had the honor of topping the Nielsens almost any week sporting events weren't on cable. They regularly did 4.0s and higher, which translated into 6-8 MILLION or more.

Now, they only make it to the top ten half the time, even without major competition, they're being beaten by Nickelodeon shows (this will be important later), and they top at about five million. That's the top. So they've lost over 3 million on average. When did that start? Not the end of the Attitude Era. The beginning of the Cenation....Since then, they've gone from fours to mid threes to mid twos.

So, they're appealing to children. Children tend to want a lot of merchandise, which works. These same children aren't affecting the market, not in a positive sense.

WWE is now facing dedicated children's programming. While they're losing the adult viewers, they aren't significantly picking up the children. Part of this may be the fact that WWE Monday Night Raw is on at 9 PM, but the bottom line is, on most weeks, WWE is losing to Spongebob, Zack and Cody, iCarly, etc. The week of the fifth, which was a GOOD week for WWE, had four kids programs on it, and WWE barely beat out reruns of NCIS for the 3 and 4 slots. Where does this ratings boon factor in? Oh, right. It's gone.

Quote:
"Always"? If he was always champion he'd have won the title at No Mercy or Mania when he returned, but he didn't. They kepts the title on Orton, and while CM Punk was champion he was well out of the way. This is his first title reign in a year.
Allow me to translate.

"Always" is Noid-speak for "anything short of nothing."

Replace Noid-speak with smark-speak if you like. Same diff. Noid's just a particularly rabid one.

Still, Cena has had amazingly long title reigns and held the belt a Hell of a lot. Hyperbole aside, there is a valid point there.

Quote:
And what exactly do you mean by "traditional sense of the word"? His return made RAW ratings increase by .4, he is selling more merchandise than anyone else, and has more gatesales than most guys in WWE. In what sense is he not a massive draw?
Really? Edge winning the title provided a larger increase in ratings, and that was even less temporary. He's selling more merch, the only true part of the statement, attendances are down in both seats sold and buys. Gates are up because they increased ticket prices. Even WWE's financial reports admit this.

Quote:
Merchandise = Money. It was ingenious of WWE to do it, especially since titles are nothing more than props.
Ticket sales and PPV buys also=money. Unfortunately, those numbers are dwindling, so we're not looking at a great run overall here. Losing fans will hurt merch eventually, and WWE can't continue to just jack prices to keep the gates up. Eventually, they price themselves right out of their desired market.
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Old 01-14-2009, 10:04 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight View Post
The hate predates him being "the company man." Smarks or otherwise, it's hard to call this the cause of the hate, since it comes afterwards.



Again, booed before then. Not that I can't empathise with adults in a market which courts the male 18-34 demo while their number one guy is courting children.

But enough about Vince's sex life....



Untrue.

WWE maintained solid ratings leaving the Attitude Era. While they could no longer maintain 6-8.0 ratings, what they did was not only respectable, but had the honor of topping the Nielsens almost any week sporting events weren't on cable. They regularly did 4.0s and higher, which translated into 6-8 MILLION or more.

Now, they only make it to the top ten half the time, even without major competition, they're being beaten by Nickelodeon shows (this will be important later), and they top at about five million. That's the top. So they've lost over 3 million on average. When did that start? Not the end of the Attitude Era. The beginning of the Cenation....Since then, they've gone from fours to mid threes to mid twos.

So, they're appealing to children. Children tend to want a lot of merchandise, which works. These same children aren't affecting the market, not in a positive sense.

WWE is now facing dedicated children's programming. While they're losing the adult viewers, they aren't significantly picking up the children. Part of this may be the fact that WWE Monday Night Raw is on at 9 PM, but the bottom line is, on most weeks, WWE is losing to Spongebob, Zack and Cody, iCarly, etc. The week of the fifth, which was a GOOD week for WWE, had four kids programs on it, and WWE barely beat out reruns of NCIS for the 3 and 4 slots. Where does this ratings boon factor in? Oh, right. It's gone.



Allow me to translate.

"Always" is Noid-speak for "anything short of nothing."

Replace Noid-speak with smark-speak if you like. Same diff. Noid's just a particularly rabid one.

Still, Cena has had amazingly long title reigns and held the belt a Hell of a lot. Hyperbole aside, there is a valid point there.



Really? Edge winning the title provided a larger increase in ratings, and that was even less temporary. He's selling more merch, the only true part of the statement, attendances are down in both seats sold and buys. Gates are up because they increased ticket prices. Even WWE's financial reports admit this.



Ticket sales and PPV buys also=money. Unfortunately, those numbers are dwindling, so we're not looking at a great run overall here. Losing fans will hurt merch eventually, and WWE can't continue to just jack prices to keep the gates up. Eventually, they price themselves right out of their desired market.
Shut up noid.

Wait a second, Kane Knight posted all this crap I'm never going to read?

Shut up Knoid Knight.
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Old 01-14-2009, 12:30 PM   #115
Kane Knight
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That's unfair. I don't compare you to Destor every time you lie about your sense of self-importance.
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Old 01-14-2009, 05:05 PM   #116
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VERMAATICS abound.
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Old 01-15-2009, 07:46 PM   #117
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I saw Cena vs. HBM from Raw and it was disappointing. Shawn can pull off a 5 star match wrestling Hornswoggle but it seems impossible with Cena.
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Old 01-15-2009, 07:47 PM   #118
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Hornswoggle? Really?
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Old 01-15-2009, 08:44 PM   #119
FourFifty
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FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
I have no idea who Darc is but I love his avatar.
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Old 01-15-2009, 09:23 PM   #120
Darc
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Darc does not have that much rep yet (10+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Actually, Edge winning the title provided a larger increase in ratings, and that was even less temporary.
It was not Edge that spiked those ratings. It was the manor in which he won the title. A promise of "Live Sex" also didn't do any harm either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Cena's selling more merch, yes, but attendances are down in both seats sold and buys.
Which has been happening consistently since 2001.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Even WWE's financial reports admit this. Ticket sales and PPV buys also = money. Unfortunately, those numbers are dwindling, so we're not looking at a great run overall here. Losing fans will hurt merch eventually, and WWE can't continue to just jack prices to keep the gates up. Eventually, they price themselves right out of their desired market.
I don't really see your point here. What has any of that got to do with John Cena or even any wrestler.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
He was booed before then. Not that I can't empathise with adults in a market which courts the male 18-34 demo while their number one guy is courting children.
WWE turned PG officially a few months back, but it is very noticeable that the product has been PG for a long time. The 18-34 demo is no longer the importance, because as i said, they are no longer seen as "loyal".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Untrue.

WWE maintained solid ratings leaving the Attitude Era. While they could no longer maintain 6-8.0 ratings, what they did was not only respectable, but had the honor of topping the Nielsens almost any week sporting events weren't on cable. They regularly did 4.0s and higher, which translated into 6-8 MILLION or more.
As i said, they have been consistently dropping since around 2001/2. You really proved that yourself there. They are currently getting around 3.5, compared to 4.0s, compared to the 6.0s. A consistent decline since before John Cena even made his debut.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
When did that start? Not the end of the Attitude Era. The beginning of the Cenation....Since then, they've gone from fours to mid threes to mid twos
You'll find it started to happen once the novelty of the draft wore-off. That being around mid-2002 when Cena was about to debut. It has been consistently falling since.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
So, they're appealing to children. Children tend to want a lot of merchandise, which works. These same children aren't affecting the market, not in a positive sense.
In what way are they effecting the business in a negative sense? They are buying the product, they are watching the show, and they are becoming loyal viewers. If i was running a wrestling TV show, or any TV show for that matter, i'd give my left nut for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
WWE is now facing dedicated children's programming. While they're losing the adult viewers
Did they lose them or did they go away on their own accord? The latter is the most likely, considering the product never changed much when the figures started falling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
they aren't significantly picking up the children.
Gates say different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Part of this may be the fact that WWE Monday Night Raw is on at 9 PM, but the bottom line is, on most weeks, WWE is losing to Spongebob, Zack and Cody, iCarly, etc. The week of the fifth, which was a GOOD week for WWE, had four kids programs on it, and WWE barely beat out reruns of NCIS for the 3 and 4 slots. Where does this ratings boon factor in? Oh, right. It's gone.
Exactly. You get it. The boom period is gone. Ratings have been falling for a while now, because the audience moved on. That is no fault of WWE's or John Cena's or any of the wrestlers, it is the choice of the audience. Just like how interest in Sci-Fi movies spiked during the original Star Wars films, they fell right back down, and with wrestling the same has happened. You cannot pretend as if the Attitude Era was how the ratings should always be, because it was just a fad. As the ratings coming out of the "Rock N Wrestling" era will tell you, this decline has been happening for a while and would be happening no matter what direction WWE is in.
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