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Old 01-22-2006, 03:57 PM   #1
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Marte is all about potential. One doesn't really know if he'll pan out in the long term. Coco you know what you're getting.
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Old 01-22-2006, 04:03 PM   #2
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Well Guillermo Mota isn't one of the top relief pitchers or anything either...
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Old 01-22-2006, 04:11 PM   #3
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Well Guillermo Mota isn't one of the top relief pitchers or anything either...
Is this sarcasm? Because Mota isn't even close to a top reliever.
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Old 01-22-2006, 08:40 PM   #4
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Is this sarcasm? Because Mota isn't even close to a top reliever.
In 2003, he was arguably the top setup man in the league. He had an 1.97 ERA with 99 K's in 105 innings. He lost a big in 2004, but 3.07 ERA and 85 K's in 96.2 innings. Then last year he was transformed into a closer and injured for a big part of the year, so he wasn't that good.

Put him on the Indians I'm sure he'll take the setup role again, and although Wickman obviously isn't a great pitcher, he lead the AL in saves last year so that offers some security. You can't argue that the Indians bullpen just got a lot better, and he was the second guy in the trade.

Calling him an elite closer in the MLB is probably an overstatement because of his injury plagued season last year, but he is definately an above average setup man. I mean he's no Jesse Crain, but as the extra guy in a dea like that, the Indians just got a bargain.
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Old 01-22-2006, 04:06 PM   #5
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I hate the idea of trading both Marte and Mota for Crisp. I think it's gotta be one or the other, preferrably Mota.
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Old 01-22-2006, 04:10 PM   #6
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Do you know how he'll hit in Fenway Park? Do you know how he'll handle the Boston media? Do you know if he can hit consistently in the leadoff spot? Do you know if he can be a full-time CF? He's hit .300/.345/.450 his first 2 years, do you know that he will he be able to hit that consistently?

Crisp is far from a sure thing. He has a Damon arm and in general is a lousy CF. He strikeouts out too much and walks too few for a leadoff man. His OBP is not great. Alot of prospects turn out to be nothing, but few have dominated every level like Marte has.
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Old 01-22-2006, 04:19 PM   #7
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Marte can handle the Boston press better than Crisp? I would think having a couple of seasons under his belt would give Crisp the edge in that category.
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Old 01-22-2006, 04:22 PM   #8
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Do you know either guy's personality? For all we know Marte loves the media attention and Crisp wants to be left alone all the time.

Crisp does have an edge, but you're acting like Crisp is a 100% surefire thing who has proven himself, and I'm telling you he's not.
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Old 01-22-2006, 08:05 PM   #9
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I'm stating he has proven himself a lot more than Marte has.
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Old 01-22-2006, 08:12 PM   #10
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I'm stating he has proven himself a lot more than Marte has.
I agree. But that doesn't mean you should keep him. Dontrelle Willis had never played a major league game when the Marlins got him for Matt Clement and Antonio Alfonseca, two guys with big league experience.

I understand your point though.
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Old 01-22-2006, 08:08 PM   #11
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This just in. Bonds say NO to batting 2nd.

What a shock.
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Old 01-22-2006, 08:18 PM   #12
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If it was a rebuilding team, I can understand Cleveland trading for him, but they are considered a contender. A team in that position should go for the proven commodity. Same thing for the Red Sox, only reversed, they get a proven player and not just a potential future guy while they continue to try to win or at least get a wildcard position.
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Old 01-22-2006, 08:25 PM   #13
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The Indians are getting Jason Michaels tomorrow, who could be very possibly be an upgrade over Crisp. At the least he'll be just as good. They upgrade at a corner OF spot and get possibly the best prospect in baseball. It's a great series of events for Cleveland, for 2006 and beyond.
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Old 01-22-2006, 08:49 PM   #14
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Ok I don't get it, everything you said in that post was true, so why did you call him one of the top relievers in MLB in the first one?
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Old 01-22-2006, 09:12 PM   #15
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I still think he is one of the top setup men in the game, but not an elite one. The reason I worded it like I did is because the way people were talking was like he wasn't even part of the deal. The reason I replied to your post is because you made it seem like he was awful, and he's not.
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Old 01-22-2006, 09:18 PM   #16
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"I love Crisp, he just isn't worth Marte. And he isn't a CF"

This means that I think Marte is worth more than Crisp, so obviously Marte + Mota is worth more than Crisp. There wasn't much point of mentioning him.

Calling him a top setup man is still an overstatement. He had 2 great years, what about the other 5? Don't forget that he has never thrown a pitch in the American League. Relievers, more than any other position, "come and go" so to speak. Tis why (other than closers) there are few guys who remain great relievers for long periods of time, and why only a select few get multiyear deals.
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Old 01-22-2006, 09:31 PM   #17
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I apologize, the comment you made that I was referring to is the one where you asked if I was being sarcastic. There were just a bunch of posts about the trade and he wasn't mentioned at all.
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Old 01-23-2006, 04:55 PM   #18
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Looks like the trade went through.

I'm glad we got a starting CF, but I dunno if the cost was worth it. We'll see what happens come spring training.
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Old 01-23-2006, 09:50 PM   #19
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Shigetoshi Hasegawa, retired today.
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Old 01-24-2006, 12:19 AM   #20
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LOL, Bonds is bitching again

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2302414
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Old 01-24-2006, 01:02 AM   #21
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It was kind of inevitable. I thought it was pretty cool when he said he would do it, but whatever.

There was an article somewhere that quoted some guy saying a lot of the American players didn't want to do it, but didn't want to back out early in fear of looking bad. I wonder if there will be a big group of these guys now.

What I don't really understand is why international competition is so frowned upon in baseball and basketball. It seems like representing the USA in hockey or soccer is an incredible honor, but for baseball and basketball it's just a hassle. It really just proves that it really is all about the money, although I believe they should have held the baseball tournament midseason rather then preseason.
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Old 01-24-2006, 10:04 AM   #22
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MVP, I already posted that story. - 3 day ban.
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Old 01-24-2006, 07:27 PM   #23
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Guillermo Mota failed his physical so the trade is halted for now. There is talk of replacing Mota in the deal with Manny Delcarmen.
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Old 01-24-2006, 07:54 PM   #24
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Guillermo Mota failed his physical so the trade is halted for now. There is talk of replacing Mota in the deal with Manny Delcarmen.
This is just getting stupid...

Marte, Delcarmen & Shoppach...

this is just stupid.

I'll give that Crisp has good stats and take out damon's FA year, has as good if not better stats then Damon, he can play CF is a decent fielder with no arm, but should be a good leadoff and is young and cheap...

but he's not worth all that...

There was talk SD wants David Wells and Wells wants SD, can't we make some deal of Wells for Dave Roberts to play CF for a year and keep all these guys...

I mean, if the Twins are out of it at the all-star break, wouldn't Hunter be on the block? Might Atlanta now want to spend the money on Jones?

I dunno, maybe Crisp will turn into a multi-year all-star... I just think they're giving up too much.
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Old 01-25-2006, 12:17 PM   #25
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So, there's word going around that a deal fell apart last week that had:
Clement to Cinc
Austin Kerns to Clev
Coco and 2 others to the Red Sox.

There's word that this had something to do with the firing of Dan O'brien.
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Old 01-25-2006, 05:59 PM   #26
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A's sign Thomas finallly
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Old 01-25-2006, 09:21 PM   #27
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This is such a good move. He is only guaranteed $500 K, with a couple million in incentives. So if Thomas breaks his leg on the 1st week it won't cost them any money and they'll still have a solid lineup without him.

I really hope they keep Jay Payton around as a 4th outfielder, but he complained in Boston because of not starting so they might have to trade him. I think he'll realize that he's going to get alot more playing time with Bradley/Kotsay/Swisher/Thomas than he did with Ramirez/Damon/Nixon/Ortiz. He'd be great to have around if one of the 4 go down, and he has a great glove and some pop which is about all you can ask for from a 4th OF.

Ideal situation would be to package Kennedy and Kielty in a deal for prospects and/or a reliever.
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Old 01-25-2006, 09:49 PM   #28
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500K for Thomas is a steal. There's no 'bad' in this deal anywhere.
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Old 01-25-2006, 09:57 PM   #29
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He can earn $1.4 million if he makes no DL stops, and up to $1.2 million in performance bonuses (starting with 300 AB he can make $200 K for every 50 AB). If Thomas collects all of his 2.9 million, it will be money well spent because the A's will win 95 games.

I really think this puts the A's over the top
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Old 01-26-2006, 01:37 PM   #30
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He can earn $1.4 million if he makes no DL stops, and up to $1.2 million in performance bonuses (starting with 300 AB he can make $200 K for every 50 AB). If Thomas collects all of his 2.9 million, it will be money well spent because the A's will win 95 games.

I really think this puts the A's over the top
an incentive for not being on the DL?

I wonder what happens if the team wants to put him there, but he gets a doctor to say he's not injured?
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Old 01-26-2006, 07:24 PM   #31
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an incentive for not being on the DL?

I wonder what happens if the team wants to put him there, but he gets a doctor to say he's not injured?
You have to be certified as disabled by a doctor to go on the DL. They can't just put him there because they don't want to pay him.
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Old 01-26-2006, 08:14 PM   #32
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You have to be certified as disabled by a doctor to go on the DL. They can't just put him there because they don't want to pay him.
you act like a "team doctor" has never stretched a "injury" at a teams request.

Team doctors are paid for and work for the team.

I always remember the Celtics would sometimes put someone on the IR the press would ask the player "how bad is it" and the player would say "well, my back is really sore, going to have some pictures done" and then the press would tell the player is was a different injury he's going on the IR for.
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Old 01-26-2006, 03:47 AM   #33
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It's going to be a sad day when I see my all-time favorite player in a uniform other than the White Sox pinstripes.

I was hoping you were just going to hang 'em up Frank.

Here's to hoping you get your 500 and set your path to the Hall.
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Old 01-26-2006, 10:57 AM   #34
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Yeah, gonna be crazy seeing him in a different uniform. Kinda like seeing MJ in the Wizards uniform.
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Old 01-26-2006, 01:39 PM   #35
VonErich Lives
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Ok, it seems every time I hear a new "trade for Crisp" the sox are giving more.

I swear, by the time the deal is done it will be:

Rameriz, Ortiz, Lester, Pappelbon, Timlin & 100mil cash for Coco Crisp.

Also, I want the idiot who decide to make the deal with the Martlins without giving either player a physical head on a flag pole outside fenway park.
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Old 01-26-2006, 08:04 PM   #36
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I cannot wait to get this season started.
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Old 01-26-2006, 09:06 PM   #37
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Jesus Shuttlesworth got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Jesus Shuttlesworth got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Jesus Shuttlesworth got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Jesus Shuttlesworth got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Jesus Shuttlesworth got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Jesus Shuttlesworth got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Jesus Shuttlesworth got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Jesus Shuttlesworth got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Jesus Shuttlesworth got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Jesus Shuttlesworth got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Jesus Shuttlesworth got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Jesus Shuttlesworth got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
Well, if Thomas is able to play, they are probably going to want him to play and will be willing to pay him? It's not like its a difference of millions of dollars or something.
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Old 01-27-2006, 12:02 AM   #38
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The IL in basketball is/was completely different. Teams would just use it so they didn't have to drop a young player, so oftentimes it was just used for injuries like "sore back"
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Old 01-27-2006, 12:27 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCWWF
The IL in basketball is/was completely different. Teams would just use it so they didn't have to drop a young player, so oftentimes it was just used for injuries like "sore back"
Team Doctors still work for "the team".
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Old 01-27-2006, 10:19 AM   #40
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LOL yeah. Mota was aquired by the Red Sox this off season, did he not take a physical?
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