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Reload this Page The Official Shawn Michaels or Bret Hart Thread
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View Poll Results: Heartbreak Kid or The Hitman?
Shawn Michaels 43 58.11%
Bret Hart 31 41.89%
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Old 12-15-2007, 03:12 PM   #121
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the guy has shawn michaels as his avatar. You think he is willing to see reason? Post some cock pictures then maybe you'll get his attention
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Old 12-15-2007, 04:01 PM   #122
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Since a lot of the same arguments apply....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeritron View Post
Bret being on The Simpsons is awesome. But Austin was never on The Simpsons.

Take actors, musicians or pro athletes and throw them into the argument.

Is Ed Begley Jr. a better actor/box office draw/performer than Arnold because the latter didn't lend his real voice and the former did?

Same goes for bands which haven't been on the Simpsons, or athletes.

The guest star list of The Simpsons does tend to read like a who's who in showbiz, but it's not like it's an effective measuring tool
That would be great if I was arguing which the better show was, or that the Simpsons was the ONLY show for which this counted, ToVo. Or if anyone had made those notions. Thing is, nobody did.

The Rock, for example, HOSTED SNL. Certainly, appearances in Star Trek are pretty meaningless, especially since it was a deal brokered not because of the star power (I mean, the Big Show also appeared on Star Trek), but because of marketing (Paramount wanted it to happen), but not being in the Simpsons alone doesn't mean that someone hasn't had their own crossover success. I mean, looking at the Rock, was Star Trek the best example you could think of? Maybe SNL, or the movies he's been in, or his dozens...AND DOZENS...Sorry, markish Rock moment...Of appearances in various places cemented him as a household name, dyathink?

That "ten second clip" Was about as much as most of the pop culture icons got on the Simpsons, BTW. And I don't even know who was on that 70s show, but the show was not really as indicative of pop culture as the Simpsons. I know they had some cool guests, but there is a certain cultural standpoint to appearing on the Simpsons to an extent that doesn't exist on That 70s show, or most other shows on TV.

Does that mean there are no other outlets? No, but you chose some really shitty examples. Marc Mero has made himself a career that would be worthy of "Where are they now?" shows only, and Billy Gunn had a bit part on a comedy that's nowherein the same league. I also don't see anyone arguing that Bret is a bigger celebrity than, say, the Rock, or Steve Austin, etc. Really, I don't.

As for your point of measuring people by their appearances outside of wrestling, you're wrong. Crossover success helped make wrestling big in the 80s AND in the 90s. The big stars will almost certainly be multimedia stars. That's a point that really does need to be made. And while you will find exceptions, they will certainly be rare. At least as far as the top of a generation go. So yes, outside impact can and does affect how popular a wrestler is, and even how successful. I'm not addressing this for its relevance to Bret Hart (BEcause I don't think it's relevant in this case), but that line of thought was just so phenomenally stupid, I had to say something about it.

But we're not comparing Bret to the Rock, or Austin, or Hogan, or other people who have megastardom under their belts. We're comparing him to Shawn Michaels, who is nowhere close to the Rock, or Austin, or Hogan in terms of appeal, popularity, or draw.
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Old 12-15-2007, 04:30 PM   #123
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Old 12-15-2007, 07:29 PM   #124
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Ive been watching wrestling since Wrestlemania 2. The Hart Foundation was easily my favorite tag team of the 80s. Bret-Perfect from SS91 is one of my favorite all time matches. Hell, when Bret showed up on WWF Superstars as the World Champion, it completely blew my mind.

Now i was a rockers fan too, enjoyed their in ring work, loved watching them. But the moment Shawn sent Marty Jannetty through that Barber Shop window, Shawn has always been my favorite to watch. I think Shawn has had better fueds, better matches, better promos.

Im not going to criticize Bret for being whiny about Montreal, etc. The guy did get a rough deal for everything that happened afterwards. For me, Shawn is always the guy I stayed around to watch. When Hogan, etc. left for WCW, Shawn was the main guy I stuck to WWF. After I stopped watching for a bit in high school, DX brought me back. When I stopped watching again in college, HBK's return got me watching again...and hes been one of the few reasons Ive kept watching.
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Old 12-16-2007, 09:21 AM   #125
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so this DX that we had should be the reason you stop watching as it was fucking 'orrible
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Old 12-16-2007, 09:41 AM   #126
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so this DX that we had should be the reason you stop watching as it was fucking 'orrible
and it was still better than everything else they've been putting on.
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Old 12-16-2007, 09:51 AM   #127
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and it was still better than everything else they've been putting on.
Which was fucking sad, but fucking true.
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Old 12-17-2007, 01:09 AM   #128
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I gotta go with Shawn Michaels. Even though I do think Bret was great, I just didn't have a hard time making up my mind on this one.
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Old 12-17-2007, 11:54 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The One
Most people claim that once Hogan left, it was the Bret Hart show...
I never got that. Bret got the title and was a major player, but there was an awful lot of Flair, Savage, 'Taker, Perfect, and even Scott freaking Hall holding the roof up at least as much as Bret.
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Old 12-17-2007, 03:14 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthTedious View Post
I never got that. Bret got the title and was a major player, but there was an awful lot of Flair, Savage, 'Taker, Perfect, and even Scott freaking Hall holding the roof up at least as much as Bret.

True. But there was an awful lot of shit holding things up as a supporting cast during the Hulk Hogan show.
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Old 12-17-2007, 03:55 PM   #131
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Quote:
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True. But there was an awful lot of shit holding things up as a supporting cast during the Hulk Hogan show.
And even during the Attitude Era, under Rocky and Austin.
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Old 12-17-2007, 09:54 PM   #132
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I've noticed Bret Hart is compared to both Shawn Michaels and Ric Flair a lot in these boards. There must be a reason for that. Whether some of you admit it or not, Bret is and will forever be the guy who you must compare greatness with.
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Old 12-17-2007, 10:01 PM   #133
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Quote:
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I've noticed Bret Hart is compared to both Shawn Michaels and Ric Flair a lot in these boards. There must be a reason for that. Whether some of you admit it or not, Bret is and will forever be the guy who you must compare greatness with.
I rarely see Bret compared to anyone other than Shawn and Owen. Any comparison to Ric was made right after Bret made those comments that he was under whelmed working with Flair. And there you have Bret's legacy. Bitching. He's brought up only when people talk about other workers who Bret has at some point or another bad mouthed. That's it.

Bret Hart's Legacy
1) Bret/Vince/Shawn/Santa/YOU/The Devil screwed Bret.
2) Bret or Shawn: Who is better?
3) Bret or Owen: Who is better?
4) Canada sucks.

More or less that's about all the contributions towards wrestling I have seen from him. And if you go by my opinion; he screwed himself, Shawn is better, Owen is better, and yes indeed Canada sucks. Not much to write home about there...
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Old 12-17-2007, 10:12 PM   #134
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Brets influence still runs deep among many younger wrestlers today..christ man, take off the blinders.

You realize Bret only brought up Ric because Ric made idiotic comments about Bret and the Owen death, right? Comments he had no right even making, because he was not even involved in any way..he went out of his way to involve the Hart tragedy in his book to sell more copies.

And that deserves a good thrashing. Bret gave it to him.

It also proves that Brets name and the Hart family influence what still transpires on tv today, and their name is huge enough that everyone, including that old man dinosaur, Flair, try to get a rub from them.

HBK's legacy:

Faggot clothing
Playgirl
I lost my smile(talk about Bret whining, at least he didnt break down like a baby)
Guys getting sick of him
turning to christ to save him
Balding, still somewhat gayish looking guy who holds on to the old HBK theme.
Last edited by Zen v.W.o.; 12-17-2007 at 10:16 PM.
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Old 12-17-2007, 10:19 PM   #135
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I swear, when it comes to this debate, Zenny and ToVo are the two dumbest motherfuckers on the face of the motherfucking planet.
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Old 12-17-2007, 10:29 PM   #136
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Not really, I've been objective when needed. And the only time I dumb my comments down are in mocking the way ToVo gets when he keeps insisting Bret hasnt done shitall for the industry, and decides to act like a 12 year old listing for us reasons why Bret sucks, none of them being remotely relevant or factual.

Basically, I fuck about, only when pushed. ToVo is dead serious, and that is a sad bit of business right there.
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Old 12-17-2007, 10:33 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight View Post
I swear, when it comes to this debate, Zenny and ToVo are the two dumbest motherfuckers on the face of the motherfucking planet.
Actually our blind loyalty makes us top choices for dumbest people in terms of discussing anything involving wrestling.
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Old 12-17-2007, 10:37 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by Zen v.W.o. View Post
Not really, I've been objective when needed. And the only time I dumb my comments down are in mocking the way ToVo gets when he keeps insisting Bret hasnt done shitall for the industry, and decides to act like a 12 year old listing for us reasons why Bret sucks, none of them being remotely relevant or factual.

Basically, I fuck about, only when pushed. ToVo is dead serious, and that is a sad bit of business right there.
Oh shut the fuck up. Firstly, I don't think you're going over board with your e-blowjob of Bret Hart only in response to me since you suck on his balls any chance you get. And second off, you have no way of judging me to be serious. You can't be a fan boy of someone, and then when you get called on your shit for totally ignoring facts pull out some lame ass "Uh, he pushed me first" non sense. Either enjoy riding the wave of being an unwaviering fan, or don't. Cause right there it made you sound like some little whinny bitch.
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Old 12-18-2007, 05:58 PM   #139
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It's not "whinny".

It's hard to argue with someone who claims Bret hasn't done shit in the business.

lolz.
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Old 01-14-2008, 08:32 PM   #140
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This is very hard for me. I believe that Bret is the better wrestler and Michaels is the better performer. To me Bret made wrestling look real but Michaels charisma made you want to watch him everytime he was on. To me this is a push.
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Old 01-14-2008, 08:40 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen v.W.o. View Post
It's not "whinny".

It's hard to argue with someone who claims Bret hasn't done shit in the business.

lolz.
Well, ot be fair, he never drew a dime. Ric Flair said so, and Ric Flair is known for his honesty, integrity, and chastity.
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