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Old 06-10-2010, 08:18 PM   #1
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Might start posting in this thread after every disc just to keep it alive for a while longer
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Old 06-10-2010, 08:34 PM   #2
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Alvarado just finished watching walkabout. I think he knows better than to post in here though
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Old 06-10-2010, 08:50 PM   #3
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I predict Alvarado taps out in the third season. If he makes it to season 5, he might just pass out
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Old 06-11-2010, 08:31 AM   #4
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I was just watching the episode where Mr. Eko dies, and it's obvious that The Smoke Monster is an intelligent being with an agenda, who can imitate the dead. It's all but told. I don't know how everyone didn't notice this clue, but as something that wasn't revealed until season six I was pretty impressed by this. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess.
Did nobody notice this?

I remember reading early on that people thought the Smoke Monster had intelligence and wan't just a killing machine/security system. The thing with appearing as the dead was picked up pretty quickly too if I remember correctly.
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Old 06-11-2010, 09:32 AM   #5
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Did nobody notice this?

I remember reading early on that people thought the Smoke Monster had intelligence and wan't just a killing machine/security system. The thing with appearing as the dead was picked up pretty quickly too if I remember correctly.
I think most people got this. It clearly scanned Eko and ran through his memories, and was pretty obvious it was Yemi

The Cabin stuff still doesnt seem all that clear to me, and I still dont know why Richard told Locke to kill his father or why the Others were trying to kill the 815ers
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Old 06-11-2010, 11:29 AM   #6
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yep, just saw that one the other day when the Smoke Monster meets Eko for the first time. Yea, I agree. totally new experience watching them over and you really do see things coordinate till the end. Like in season 2, Goodwin (the guy who Ana Lucia kills) explains about the list and how they took the good people and he killed Nathan because Nathan was bad. And then I think Ben later admited it was Goodwin's plan to try and change Ana Lucia's ways to make her a good person.
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Old 06-11-2010, 01:03 PM   #7
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I think The Others were being manipulated by the Smoke Monster through Ben (and the cabin), which is why for much of the time they seemed pretty antagonistic.
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Old 06-11-2010, 01:20 PM   #8
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That was never addressed, I think IMHO iswas slightly implied. In write ups from people "In the know" they say that is in fact truth. But hardly proven in show. I think it makes the most sense as well.

I just reead the truce with the Dharma on Lostpedia. Like they never talk about it on the show really but they actually have the document. Pretty cool stuff.
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Old 06-11-2010, 01:22 PM   #9
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You know what? The "Good People" in theory were everyone but the Candidates in a way. The candidates were flawed and incomplete like Jacob said.

I used to think that Smokey was pulling bens strings because they tried to kill the candidates...but in fact maybe Jacob wanted them to go through all that stuff. THey had to learn to accept their calling
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Old 06-11-2010, 01:31 PM   #10
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You know what? The "Good People" in theory were everyone but the Candidates in a way. The candidates were flawed and incomplete like Jacob said.

I used to think that Smokey was pulling bens strings because they tried to kill the candidates...but in fact maybe Jacob wanted them to go through all that stuff. THey had to learn to accept their calling
This too. I think Jacob sort of looks the other way in allowing a lot to happen in the era of Ben's leadership. He may or may not even call for a few of those things to happen.
He definitely has little to no involvement in Ben's regime though.
Smoke Monster definitely has more, but I think Ben is pulling the majority of the strings in his secret confusion, while Jacob's probably reluctantly letting it go for a greater good.
It all plays into the ultimate patchwork of destiny.
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Old 06-11-2010, 01:23 PM   #11
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Seriously think about that Jack/Kate goodbye all these weeks later still gets me man.

Like damn
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Old 06-11-2010, 01:27 PM   #12
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The Others weren't really trying to kill the 815ers though. Most of their evil actions are things that Ben is calling the shots on, not Jacob. Since Ben is lying about his commune with Jacob, he's basically going rogue and manipulating the group for his own agenda.

They kidnap Claire to help her baby, it just doesn't seem that way at first.
They kidnap the children and flight attendant, and several others, and then we see them living good lives. The people that they kidnap end up genuinely getting better lives, since they're probably people who weren't candidates or part of any plan/lists, and are innocent bystanders.
Kidnapping Jack, Kate and Sawyer was all Ben's brainchild, so that he could save his own ass from the spinal tumor and get Jack to operate on him.
Kidnapping Walt was probably to give him a better life, as he's an innocent child and special, but then later presented more value to The Others as a means of gaining Ben's escape, and trading up for the spinal surgeon.

The Smoke Monster was definitely pulling manipulation with the cabin at some point to though.
I think a big part of the reason Jacob and Ben didn't have a direct commune is because Ben was never Jacob's choice to lead The Others. Widmore was, and Ben taking over was Ben's ambition.
Locke was special and the next choice for the job.
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Old 06-11-2010, 03:17 PM   #13
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The Others weren't really trying to kill the 815ers though. Most of their evil actions are things that Ben is calling the shots on, not Jacob. Since Ben is lying about his commune with Jacob, he's basically going rogue and manipulating the group for his own agenda..
This is true because if you go back to my post, it was later revealed Ben sent Goodwin to the Tail Section because he thought Goodwin eventually would die. Ben wanted Goodwin dead because Goodwin and Juliet were having a relaitonship and Ben was jealous.
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Old 06-11-2010, 01:39 PM   #14
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I was reading some stuff on Lostpedia today where a few people actually are trying to argue that the flash sideways is really a parallel universe and 'real life', not an afterlife.
Sort of staggering. I think that would be a case of forcing a theory due to not accepting what is told.

They also contend that the Incident created that timeline, regardless of whether it's an afterlife or not.
I'm not sure how detonating that bomb and theoretically preventing the incident (even though they really caused it), would lead to the creation of something like heaven.
I mean, we were intentionally led to think that for a while before the twist, but that ship has sailed. I dunno.
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Old 06-11-2010, 01:55 PM   #15
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I was reading some stuff on Lostpedia today where a few people actually are trying to argue that the flash sideways is really a parallel universe and 'real life', not an afterlife.
Sort of staggering. I think that would be a case of forcing a theory due to not accepting what is told.

They also contend that the Incident created that timeline, regardless of whether it's an afterlife or not.
I'm not sure how detonating that bomb and theoretically preventing the incident (even though they really caused it), would lead to the creation of something like heaven.
I mean, we were intentionally led to think that for a while before the twist, but that ship has sailed. I dunno.
Exactly. The Bomb going off and then this new "timeline" was a swerve. It was meant to make us think that so the final seen was all WTF

So any idiot that didnt get that is a fucking tard.
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Old 06-11-2010, 03:03 PM   #16
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Exactly. The Bomb going off and then this new "timeline" was a swerve. It was meant to make us think that so the final seen was all WTF

So any idiot that didnt get that is a fucking tard.
Not to mention their reasoning was pretty horrible from what I could be bothered reading.
One guy basically dropped common sense on them, telling them that it was clearly an afterlife and they were wishful thinking.
One retort was "then why were characters able to be hurt, and get surgery, and things like that? That doesn't sound like an afterlife to me."
I mean come on. That's all part of the experience. They aren't actually in mortal danger. That's like saying dreams are reality because realistic things happen, or hell isn't a depiction of an afterlife because torture and burning are worldly things.

Also, no conceivable way to argue that detonating jughead would create an afterlife. An afterlife is on a higher plane than time loop and quantum physics.
Detonating jughead specifically was theorized to prevent the incident and screw up the space-time continum, not create another dimension of eternal existence.
I bet this idea comes solely from Juliet saying "it worked", but she obviously meant something different. She meant there was another place where their troubles were over, and everything they did was working towards it.


I read some really interesting things about the afterlife while I was there though. Most of them have to do with passage of time in the flash sideways. Like Christian says, "there is no now." It's not reality with rules of time like the real world. It's all happening in both an instant and for eternity, and people arrive at that point whether they died 5 years before the finale, or a thousand years after it.
That's obvious, but some small touches hinted towards it:

I guess time passes with no rhyme or reason if you pay attention. At some point Sayid experiences multiple days while Sun and Jin only experience one day even though their stories are interwoven, and there are things like Jack showing up to the concert late, the concert having the tables set for it weeks in advance, Lockes surgery taking place hours before the concert.
We actually caught that one in this thread and wondered how it would work...

Pretty interesting stuff that the writers obviously worked in there, but were able to keep secret
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Old 06-11-2010, 01:39 PM   #17
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Yeah good shit Jeri. Your right.

Ben was never chosen. He was shot by Sayid, taken to the temple and wanted to be an other because of his dad. He wasnt special. He just refused to take orders from Widmore.

How do you think WIdmore got rich? When and how did he have Penny? Widmore is a superinteresting character to me. I wish we had gotten more out of him.
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Old 06-11-2010, 01:47 PM   #18
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Old 06-11-2010, 01:47 PM   #19
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Widmore is interesting to me because he was the leader of "the good guys", but he's extremely mean to Desmond for no real reason.
Maybe he's just really protective of his daughter, but it's intense. I always figured that his success in the real world was probably just the result of being such a powerful and influential person by nature, going from a leader on the island to a leader in the real world.
No clue though. I think his character became a major force late enough in the show that flashbacks weren't really being done anymore. He would have had an interesting flashback episode, if they saw fit to do so.

I also think Widmore is probably one of those characters that had their role evolved due to popularity. Desmond got very popular, and in turn Widmore probably saw an increased role/connection to The Island.
I wouldn't be suprised at all if his original involvement wasn't supposed to go any further than being a douchebag to Desmond about Penny. Who knows though.
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Old 06-11-2010, 01:59 PM   #20
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Well it was jut off to me that He was thrown off the island post Purge, so like what, 1992? And he is such a big player by 2001 when Desmond goes on the boat race? So he mut have been powerful in the real world before leaving the island ofr good, so that would be cool to know about.

I would love a Dharma book or something too.

Like I dont expect them to keep beating the lost horse...but why not write some books or something on the Lost world outside of the show...Jus seems like it happens with every other major story,.
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Old 06-11-2010, 02:24 PM   #21
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We know that Widmore was travelling off island don't we? He already had a life off island - in which he made dome woman pregnant with Penny. So he could have been accumilating that wealth/power long before he was banished by Ben.
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Old 06-11-2010, 03:09 PM   #22
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We know that Widmore was travelling off island don't we? He already had a life off island - in which he made dome woman pregnant with Penny. So he could have been accumilating that wealth/power long before he was banished by Ben.
I think Jacob's people are also a bit of a secret society. I'm not saying this is where he got all his money and success, but it seems as though they have a lot of connections.
He may have even been powerful, or from a powerful family, before he came to be on the island.
Like XL said, he could also have been building power in the real world during his time as leader on the island, perhaps even using those resources to help his real world interests, and vice versa.
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Old 06-11-2010, 03:10 PM   #23
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I love the "there is no now" line.
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Old 06-11-2010, 03:37 PM   #24
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I love the "there is no now" line.
probably my fav speech of the entire show. probably my fav scene next to Sawyer killing Picket. I marked out big time over that. Also, the scene when they get the boat in the water in season one with Vincent running towards it was amazing. Top 3 right there.
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Old 06-11-2010, 03:15 PM   #25
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I was just thinking, what was the deal with that cut on Jack's neck that kept bleeding (in the afterlife)?
I figure it was probably small instances of trying to get him to realize where he was.
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Old 06-11-2010, 04:31 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Jeritron View Post
I was just thinking, what was the deal with that cut on Jack's neck that kept bleeding (in the afterlife)?
I figure it was probably small instances of trying to get him to realize where he was.
Parellel to getting stabbed in the throat by Smocke. Same thing with getting hiss spendix removed, getting stabbed there.
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Old 06-11-2010, 05:22 PM   #27
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Parellel to getting stabbed in the throat by Smocke. Same thing with getting hiss spendix removed, getting stabbed there.
Exactly.

Once he started getting close to the people he knew and was close to, his real life and death started bleeding into his alt verse leading to him remembering.

I really wish he would have come to more of a realization with Kate.

HEr saying "I have missed you so much" makes so much sense when you realize she lived without him. Could have had us all in tears had he remembered then that he died and left he on that cliff.
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Old 06-12-2010, 07:07 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Hanso View Post
Exactly.

Once he started getting close to the people he knew and was close to, his real life and death started bleeding into his alt verse leading to him remembering.

I really wish he would have come to more of a realization with Kate.

HEr saying "I have missed you so much" makes so much sense when you realize she lived without him. Could have had us all in tears had he remembered then that he died and left he on that cliff.
i thought it was good the way it was. I would even argue that, that one scene redeemed the entire Kate charachter. When she said " I have missed you so much " and then after seeing the end and me finally realizing what she meant by that, it was perfect.
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Old 06-11-2010, 03:26 PM   #29
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I'm on Season 3 right now, and the episodes with Desmond beginning to have his flashes. These are way better than I originally thought they were. Great writing.

While I was watching Flashes Before Your Eyes, the whole time I was thinking all of this stuff with Desmond's consciousness in the past and Eloise telling him about the button and the Island before he ever goes can't be happening, because it will change how things go and he will know when he gets there. Since we know that isn't the case, it wouldn't be "what happened happened", but another reality.
Then his mistaken deja vu leads to him getting clocked in the head with a baseball bat and bingo, he's back to 2004.
That was so perfect because it must have caused an amnesia that made him forget about the things Eloise told him that day, and everything that happened there had in fact always happened. It had to.

Just great writing.
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Old 06-11-2010, 03:29 PM   #30
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Still haven't gotten to The Constant. I dont' remember how they handle the explanation for his consciousness flashes back to 1996.
I would assume that when they originally happened to him in 1996, he sort of lost consciousness and didn't know what happened. They were probably like blank spots in his memory that he didn't recall or even notice back then, and wouldn't have any significance to him until 2004 when they started happening.
Going on the what happened happened rule, though, it is most likely the case that his 1996 self always experience those flashes, and his consciousness at the time got pushed out for a few minutes here and there.
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Old 06-11-2010, 04:07 PM   #31
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Watching the show over now is great too because I can more fully appreciate the writing, and the sheer scope and quality of it.
I always appreciate those things, as it was my favorite show, but at the same time I was always caught up in the story and where it was going.
Now that we've reached the end and gotten resolution, it's easier to casually enjoy a lot of things.


Fucking love the locations. It's astounding that it's a TV show. I don't even think any movies approach the incredible location shooting on Lost, with the exception of New Zealand in Lord of the Rings, probably.
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Old 06-11-2010, 04:31 PM   #32
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I am so tempted to watch LOST all over right now, but I will probably wait till someone uploads the complete dvd set with the extras. Hopefully they are worth it.
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Old 06-11-2010, 04:32 PM   #33
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I'm curious if you'd like to expand about the use of looking in mirrors in the afterlife universe.
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Old 07-03-2010, 10:45 PM   #34
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I'm curious if you'd like to expand about the use of looking in mirrors in the afterlife universe.
Was talking to you, Jeritron. Or have you given up on that theme?
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Old 07-20-2010, 02:49 PM   #35
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I'm curious if you'd like to expand about the use of looking in mirrors in the afterlife universe.
I think they served two purposes as a storytelling device.

The main purpose would be their relevance to the afterlife. I think it represents the characters self reflection and the process of them discovering themselves before they move on.
We didn't know this until the last episode, so it was hard to make that connection, but the writers did.

The other purpose is to create parallel universe imagery. It was the idea of looking at another version of themselves, similar to the mirror universe we were seeing. I think it acted as a red herring to further sell us on the fact that it was in fact an alternate universe, which was the distraction all season building towards the reveal.
There were several cleverly placed items that helped seal our notion that it was definitely a parallel universe without actually saying such.
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Old 06-19-2010, 02:10 PM   #36
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QUESTION-

In "The Constant", Desmond's 1996 consciessness takes over and skips back and forth between 96 and 04.
He fixes this by tracking down Faraday and finding his constant, but the question is this:
Why does his circa 2004 self not seem to have been effected by these events?
We know that whatever happened happened. So the Desmond of 2004 would remember that strange day in 1996.
The only thing I can really think that covers this is that none of what he experiences during the flashes gives away that he's on the island. It's all on the helicopter and the boat.
Perhaps he just never connected the two. But he knew that he would be calling Penny in 2004, so why wouldn't he know that the situation was coming?
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Old 06-19-2010, 04:03 PM   #37
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Maybe he was flashing to an afterlife like in this season. Just like that one time he goes back to when he broke up with Penny. thats why Faradays mom told him he couldnt change anything, hes always going to the island, because its now an afterlife and he did go to the island.
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Old 06-19-2010, 04:03 PM   #38
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Wait, nevermind....Penny and Faraday remember it. So it was real. At least the constant.
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Old 06-19-2010, 04:04 PM   #39
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Maybe it ties into how Faraday went and met him in the past, t hen he didnt remember until 3 years after he left the island.
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Old 06-19-2010, 05:29 PM   #40
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2004 Desmond can't remember telling himself something in 1996 until he does it in 2004, though by all rights the memory should be with him already in 2004. Regardless, he still has to actually "do it" in 2004 to make it happen in 1996. Seems like a paradox.
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