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Old 08-12-2004, 08:32 PM   #1
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Never gonna get to Gagne when the set up man sucks and keeps blowing leads
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Old 08-12-2004, 08:34 PM   #2
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Dodgers should come back to Brooklyn
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Old 08-12-2004, 09:15 PM   #3
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Scott Rolen isn't above and beyond way better than Beltre. I think Beltre makes more good plays and has more range.
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Old 08-12-2004, 11:38 PM   #4
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No.
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Old 08-12-2004, 11:39 PM   #5
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Rolen and Beltre is close but I'd give it to Rolen I think

Some people play it off like Beltre isn't even in the same class tho which isn't the case.
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Old 08-12-2004, 11:53 PM   #6
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Some people play it off like Beltre isn't even in the same class tho which isn't the case.
Thank you Stima. Outlaw have you ever even seen Beltre play?
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Old 08-13-2004, 02:49 PM   #7
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Thank you Stima. Outlaw have you ever even seen Beltre play?
Yes.
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Old 08-13-2004, 02:16 AM   #8
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Rolen will win the Gold Glove. Beltre is good, but he's not in Rolen's class.
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Old 08-13-2004, 02:19 AM   #9
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I think Rolen will win it too, because he is more consistent and obviously he is a name brand player, which helps a lot. I just think that Beltre makes more cool plays, or web gems if you would.
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Old 08-13-2004, 08:29 AM   #10
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Rolen is fantastic, some of the plays he makes are unbelievable, not that Beltre isn't brilliant, because he is, but i'd give it to Rolen aswell.
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Old 08-13-2004, 02:56 PM   #11
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Who do you guys think will end up MVP in the respective leagues?

I'm thinking Barry again right now in the NL, he's not my favourite guy but without him the Giants would be nowhere, he's the only one keeping things going there the whole season. If one of the St Louis guys wins it i'll be pissed. As for the AL, i'm biased and gonna say Gary Sheffield is up there for me, he's done it all this year for us banged up aswell.
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Old 08-13-2004, 03:21 PM   #12
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AL will most likely be Manny or A-Rod, but possibly David Ortiz, Ivan Rodriguez or Michael Young.

NL I don't think will be Bonds this year, I would say probably Rolen as of right now.
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Old 08-13-2004, 03:28 PM   #13
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Yeah, unfortunately people look at who has the most astonishing stats rather than the one who's actually been most valuable to the team. The Cards have Pujols, Renteria and Edmonds anyway, and Larry Walker now...I don't think Rolen has been as important to the Cards as Bonds has to the Giants.
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Old 08-13-2004, 03:44 PM   #14
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Bonds #'s aren't as good as they have been and the Giants aren't going to make the playoffs whereas Rolen is having career numbers and leading the best team in the AL. I think he should get it.
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Old 08-13-2004, 03:55 PM   #15
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Bear in mind he's walking about half the time he's up there.
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Old 08-13-2004, 05:00 PM   #16
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Last time I checked MVP was "most valuable to your team". The Cardinals would still be in first place without Rolen, but the Giants would be down there with the D'backs without Bonds. And if Bonds saw half the pitches Rolen did, he could hit 80 home runs.

And last time I checked, the Giants were 2 games out of the wildcard. With how shit the Cubs and Padres have been playing lately, the Giants making the playoffs is a very real possibility.
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Old 08-19-2004, 07:12 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Last time I checked MVP was "most valuable to your team". The Cardinals would still be in first place without Rolen, but the Giants would be down there with the D'backs without Bonds. And if Bonds saw half the pitches Rolen did, he could hit 80 home runs.

And last time I checked, the Giants were 2 games out of the wildcard. With how shit the Cubs and Padres have been playing lately, the Giants making the playoffs is a very real possibility.
Didn't A-Rod win it last year?
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Old 08-13-2004, 05:20 PM   #18
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Ohh, shit, I forgot about that clause in the rulebook where it states

Quote:
MVP was "most valuable to your team"
If thats the case then Lew Ford should be the AL MVP, unfortunately its not the case
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Old 08-13-2004, 05:22 PM   #19
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Yup. Bonds is putting up great numbers in far less at bats than anyone else, basically in history, let alone this season, he's the only Giant with 10+ home runs, the Cards have what 8? And the Giants don't have the same depth in the rotation as the Cards who have 5 quality starters. Bonds as a team leader and offensive demon is what is keeping the Giants anywhere close, that and Felipe Alou who has done a great job.
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Old 08-13-2004, 05:28 PM   #20
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Bonds is the opposite of a team leader, actually.

There is a case for both guys, Bonds is one of the best players ever and still putting up great numbers on a decent team this year. Rolen, IMO is the best overall player this year, he can hit for power and average, has tonns of RBI's, good HR's, gold glove quality fielding, and in the first half of the season Pujols, Edmonds, and Renteria were struggling a bit and Rolen lead their team to the best record on the NL.

Its really just a difference of oppinion on our parts, so I guess now we just wait for the voting, see what the writers think.
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Old 08-13-2004, 08:19 PM   #21
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This could be the biggest series of the year in the AL central, lets hope it goes well
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Old 08-13-2004, 08:21 PM   #22
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I reckon Rolen isn't far from being a shoe in for it tbh, barring an injury its gonna be hard to see anyone else getting it. Though i still think its Barry
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Old 08-14-2004, 12:15 AM   #23
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AL: Vlad Guerrero
NL: Scott Rolen
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Old 08-14-2004, 03:38 AM   #24
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I think Bonds should get it. Like everyone has said, without Bonds the Giants are nothing. Not to mention Pitcher won't even pitch to Barry, they are scared of him because of how good he is. I am not a Bonds fan at all but I think he should win it again this year.
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Old 08-18-2004, 07:57 PM   #25
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Yesssssssssss! We get Yankees/Twins tonight, Mussina/Santana, should be great, first time we've seen Minnesota this year.

Also, Mark Teixera hitting for the cycle with 7 rbi's
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Old 08-18-2004, 08:06 PM   #26
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Santana will work you, party in my room begins NOW
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Old 08-19-2004, 12:03 AM   #27
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Yeah Bonds is a great leader, what with him being a dick to teamates and all.
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Old 08-19-2004, 03:17 AM   #28
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I did change my mind by the way, I do think Bonds should be the MVP now. I just wanted to let everyone know. I looked at the stats etc again and yeah, he deserves it IMO.
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Old 08-19-2004, 04:53 PM   #29
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Santana was pretty awesome last night. Mussina didn't do too badly considering it was his first start in a while, kept letting the lead of men get on base, which is what was his downfall really.
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Old 08-19-2004, 07:06 PM   #30
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I think even without Bonds, the Giants would be a decent team. I wouldn't say they'd be subpar.

JT Snow, as old as he is, is having an AMAZING season. Jason Schmidt is probably going to win the Cy Young. The Giants have a bunch of young players that are actually starting to come through. Wayne Franklin is going to be a badass pitcher in the near future.

Alfonso will be never be amazing, but he's a solid 3B.
Deivi Cruz is solid at short.
Ray Durham is the man, offensively, and coming around defensively.
Pedro Feliz is waiting in the wings for his breakout season
Dustan Mohr has been on fire for the last month or so, with him getting playtime.
AJ Pierzinsky is stepping it up the last couple months and has become what everybody expected him to be when the Giants first got him.

Only thing is, they have too many aging outfielders (Tucker, Grissom) who are starting to show their age.
The rest of the team IS solid. Maybe not World Series caliber, but definitely playoff caliber. They WILL win the Wild Card this season. They will also lose in the first round, but... What i'm trying to convey is that they aren't "nothing" without Bonds.
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Old 08-19-2004, 07:30 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DegenerationY
I think even without Bonds, the Giants would be a decent team. I wouldn't say they'd be subpar.

JT Snow, as old as he is, is having an AMAZING season. Jason Schmidt is probably going to win the Cy Young. The Giants have a bunch of young players that are actually starting to come through. Wayne Franklin is going to be a badass pitcher in the near future.

Alfonso will be never be amazing, but he's a solid 3B.
Deivi Cruz is solid at short.
Ray Durham is the man, offensively, and coming around defensively.
Pedro Feliz is waiting in the wings for his breakout season
Dustan Mohr has been on fire for the last month or so, with him getting playtime.
AJ Pierzinsky is stepping it up the last couple months and has become what everybody expected him to be when the Giants first got him.

Only thing is, they have too many aging outfielders (Tucker, Grissom) who are starting to show their age.
The rest of the team IS solid. Maybe not World Series caliber, but definitely playoff caliber. They WILL win the Wild Card this season. They will also lose in the first round, but... What i'm trying to convey is that they aren't "nothing" without Bonds.
They wouldn't be close in the wildcard without him, and they'd certainly be a lot more than 6 games back of the Dodgers. St Louis would probably still be winning the Central without Rolen, probably not as dominating but still on top
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Old 08-19-2004, 07:34 PM   #32
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I actually doubt that they wouldn't be close in the wildcard race.

Sure, the pitching is a bit shakey. But as a team, the Giants have one of the highest team batting averages in the NL. Everybody's been saying that the Giants are nothing without Bonds since he arrived. No, they wouldn't be the best team obviously, but the team is a solid wild-card contending team without him, IMO of course.

We'll see in two seasons, when Bonds retires.
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Old 08-19-2004, 07:41 PM   #33
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Fact of the matter is, you technically have no idea what you're talking about since you don't see them on a daily basis, as I do. You see what ESPN wants you to see, which is a Barry Bonds HR or a Barry Bonds walk. That's all they ever show, barring a Jason Schmidt gem.

When you see them everyday like I do, you'd see there's much more to the team than just Barry.
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Old 08-19-2004, 07:46 PM   #34
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1 player DOES NOT make a difference. The Giants have a good all around team and good pitching. They would be in the playoffs with or without Bonds.
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Old 08-19-2004, 09:04 PM   #35
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I think you phrased yourself wrong, because one player does make a difference, but not the difference between a 500 team and a wildcard winner, thats what you meant right?
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Old 08-19-2004, 09:35 PM   #36
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You guys aren't looking at it fully. Taking Bonds away completely changes what the Giants are, they no longer have the big bat, their biggest star is now a guy who appears once every 5 or 6 days, Edgardo Alfonzo and JT Snow are their main offensive etc. Basically they lose that aura that Bonds brings, he's no longer smashing the ball all areas and getting the crowd going. Not having him is far bigger an impact than just losing the batting stats. Also, their batting average is high, it wouldn't be tops without Bonds hitting 350+ this year would it?
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Old 08-19-2004, 10:21 PM   #37
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Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
You are looking at it as if offense is the only thing that wins the game though. Take away Bonds and put someone else in there who's not as good as Bonds, but a good hitter and the Giants will still be where they are. Bonds is only a small piece to a good team.

Look at the Rangers of last year. They had A-Rod and what you just said about Bonds getting the crowd going can be said about A-ROD. Did the Rangers do good with A-ROD? Hell no. Who's the star player on the Rangers right now? Who's the star player on the Indians? Who was the star player on the Angels in 2002? Yankees in 98? Nobody. Each guy was the star on the team. There was no one guy that made a difference. 9 guys playing good baseball make a difference.
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Old 08-19-2004, 10:31 PM   #38
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Technically the Twins have never had a superstar pitcher and were on track to win our third division championship in three years, to add to Loose Cannons point.
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Old 08-19-2004, 10:54 PM   #39
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I'd say Santana is a star pitcher, the second half he's been amazing, i had no idea how unstoppable he's been.
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Old 08-20-2004, 03:03 AM   #40
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Hate to be a fan, but all Mulder has over Santana is like three wins and three losses..


Santana > Mulder
Strike Outs

Santana > Mulder
ERA

Etc. Etc.
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