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Old 09-08-2010, 10:59 AM   #1
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Feeding the beast that is Randy Orton
I finally watched last night and I must say something I never though I'd say, Randy Orton (one of my favorite wrestlers right now) has gotten pretty stale. I don't believe it's Randy himself though, I think it's the formulaic way they're building him up as a face.

It seems like ever since the Evan Bourne RKO they've been doing their damndest to make sure the move is done at least five times per show. It seriously seems like for the last month and a half Raw has ended with Orton RKOing the hell out of everyone. It's fucking boring now.

He's literally getting close to Super Cena status. Does WWE think the only way to make a guy a face is to put him over as invincible? And before you talk about Stone Cold, remember this, every major heel he went against was built up to be a bad ass/ credible threat in his own right. Vince, Shawn, the Rock, the Corporation, the Ministry...

WWE has done the exact opposite for Cena and now seemingly Orton.

Sheamus has been completely emasculated and I don't want to hear shit about transitional champion. He's on his second championship run and put out HHH. He was vicious on ECW and during his first championship run. There's no reason that character should be depicted the way it has been. Cena, Edge, and even Michael Cole buried the guy on commentary. He looks weak as shit.

Edge just doesn't do it anymore. I can't think of the last memorable promo the guy has done or program he has been in. And of Goldberg, Rhino, and him... his spear is the weakest. He's just lingering there.

Jericho is the fucking man, but it seems like he's taken a bit of a backseat in favor of putting some of the young guys over, which isn't a bad thing.

Seeing the Nexus five made me laugh. They may as well end them. Without Skip, they don't look as formidable. They've also been exposed and are no longer a threat. They lose collectively to Cena at Summerslam and have yet to get any clean wins as individuals. They're basically watered down.

If WWE built up more ruthless (think HHH) heels instead of these cartoonish clowns, the program might be better.

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Old 09-08-2010, 11:01 AM   #2
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Everythings abit shit/stale atm, don't feel im missing anything these days when i miss Raw or Smackdown.
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Old 09-08-2010, 02:44 PM   #3
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Old 09-08-2010, 02:46 PM   #4
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If WWE built up more ruthless (think HHH) heels instead of these cartoonish clowns, the program might be better.
Totally agree, if the outcome wasnt so obvious all the time it would improve the feuds alot for me. Can't remember the last time a heel actually came across as unbeatable.

I remember Vaders run in wcw and Kanes 1st big build up, and when they eventually got beat it was huge, and it actually felt like the face had accomplished something. I think Hogan/Austin worked so well because the opponents were built up before they were fed to them on PPV, if Orton had that level of build up for his feuds i think it would get him over alot more.
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Old 09-08-2010, 05:10 PM   #5
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NBT has got it right. The lack of legit, well built heels is causing Orton to become stale. They spent months building Sheamus back up as a monster after he dropped the title the first time, and theyLve now relegated him to the cowardly heel. It makes zero sense and also gives the fans nothing to feed off of. You canlt have a hot face without a hot heel.

At this point, the only feud I can see being intesne and really involving the crowd would be Cena versus Orton. They're both the top faces in the company, which would add a different dynamic that wasn't there during their last go around. Unless they build someone else up and make Orton look vulnerable, RandyLs only going to lose steam.
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Old 09-08-2010, 05:51 PM   #6
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The worst thing is, he's in the top-3 draws and possibly one of the most interesting things on wrestling TV right now. So that pretty much says we're up fuck alley when it comes to wrastlin of late.
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Old 09-08-2010, 06:49 PM   #7
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I think its because Orton doesn't have any real rival right now that could compete or be seen equal to him. The closest would be Cena since he's a super face but there is no super heel to keep Orton as a super tweener.

The closest heel would either be Sheamus since he's the champion or the Nexus since they've been terrorizing RAW for a while. The problem is Sheamus is too much of a coward heel and Nexus lost momentum badly with their feud against Cena and friends.

Edge and Jericho are good heels but they are basically on the outside of Orton's rise and Cena's push for the title storyline.

Seeing as WWE wants to restart the Orton-Cena feud, one of them has to turn heel but also keep their "super" status or else its going to be the same bland feud as before. The problem might be the WWE doesn't want to turn Orton as a heel since he recently just came off a heel run while Cena is too valuable as a face to turn.
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Old 09-08-2010, 06:50 PM   #8
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WWE is paying the price atm for making Cena as unbeatable as he is.
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Old 09-08-2010, 06:51 PM   #9
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Orton needs to get Cole and read him a "pome".
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Old 09-08-2010, 07:02 PM   #10
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Smelly Meatball just brought up a point that I failed to look at when I made my previous post; Orton the tweener. Since his face turn after Mania, Randy's only been booked against heels. He is truly the closest thing they have to a tweener and I think finding a face for him to have a rivalry with other than Cena would be welcomed and refreshing.

i stated this in a different thread but I think Cena/Orton should be saved for Mania's main event. The two top faces in the company squaring off for the title should be a Mania main event.

So who do you choose? Triple H is the only guy I can think of, but if/when he somes back, heLs guarenteed to feud with Sheamus.

Also, maybe have him feud with the Miz for a bit. ThatLs something I'd be interested in seeing.
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Old 09-08-2010, 07:31 PM   #11
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Smelly Meatball just brought up a point that I failed to look at when I made my previous post; Orton the tweener. Since his face turn after Mania, Randy's only been booked against heels. He is truly the closest thing they have to a tweener and I think finding a face for him to have a rivalry with other than Cena would be welcomed and refreshing.
You're screwed there too though. Who's a face right now that Orton hasn't already RKOd repeatedly that wouldn't look like a jobber compared to him? R-Truth, Khali, or Morrison. Take your pic.

Maybe Morrison if he's allowed to wrestle a full match and pull off the upset (ala Shelton Benjamin vs. HHH), but that's a program where you run the risk of Orton going heel again instead of retaining his tweener status.
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Old 09-08-2010, 07:37 PM   #12
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You're screwed there too though. Who's a face right now that Orton hasn't already RKOd repeatedly that wouldn't look like a jobber compared to him? R-Truth, Khali, or Morrison. Take your pic.

Maybe Morrison if he's allowed to wrestle a full match and pull off the upset (ala Shelton Benjamin vs. HHH), but that's a program where you run the risk of Orton going heel again instead of retaining his tweener status.
I completely agree with you. That's why I brought up HHH and Miz as other possible opponents. I think 3 match program with Miz and Orton would be beneficial for both guys. It gives Orton a very hot heel to play off of and compliment him and it gives Miz the oppurtunity to enter a high profile feud that hasn't been done.
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Old 09-08-2010, 07:39 PM   #13
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With this nexus angle winding down I am losing the interest I had in the WWE product.

If nexus won and kept the feud going I would be more impressed with the product.
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Old 09-08-2010, 07:44 PM   #14
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I don't think any face is going to have the crowd turn against Orton. He's white hot over with the fans.

A consequence of the PG era is the latent message that the good guys are always the best, and the bad guys take second fiddle. Being bad inherently makes you a worse wrestler, which essentially is telling the young audience to "do it the right way." Now, that doesn't HAVE to be the case, but the way the WWE is selling the product now, they're peddling that message. Get used to heels never RARELY ever looking better than a good guy...evil = win by chicanery.

With this ethos in mind, how CAN they build a real top heel?
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Old 09-08-2010, 07:59 PM   #15
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I don't think any face is going to have the crowd turn against Orton. He's white hot over with the fans.

A consequence of the PG era is the latent message that the good guys are always the best, and the bad guys take second fiddle. Being bad inherently makes you a worse wrestler, which essentially is telling the young audience to "do it the right way." Now, that doesn't HAVE to be the case, but the way the WWE is selling the product now, they're peddling that message. Get used to heels never RARELY ever looking better than a good guy...evil = win by chicanery.

With this ethos in mind, how CAN they build a real top heel?
Helluva point Snowden. The thing is, even in the 80s with Hogan and the early and mid 90s with Bret and Shawn, guys were built up to be taken seriously as heels threatening for the title. With Hogan you had a rogues gallery of heels in Piper, Savage, Bundy, Andre, DiBiase and Slaughter.

With Bret, you had Owen, Yoko, Razor at one point, Diesel, Davey Boy Smith and hell even Lawler and even guys like Hakushi.

HBK had Vader, Sid, and Mankind for his first run. All of these guys were built and booked to be legitimate threats to topple the champion. And even though more times than not they failed, they still came off as threatening.

The way WWE booked Batista from January all the way through Mania is how they should be booking guys like Sheamus.
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Old 09-08-2010, 10:56 PM   #16
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I finally watched last night and I must say something I never though I'd say, Randy Orton (one of my favorite wrestlers right now) has gotten pretty stale. I don't believe it's Randy himself though, I think it's the formulaic way they're building him up as a face.

It seems like ever since the Evan Bourne RKO they've been doing their damndest to make sure the move is done at least five times per show. It seriously seems like for the last month and a half Raw has ended with Orton RKOing the hell out of everyone. It's fucking boring now.

He's literally getting close to Super Cena status. Does WWE think the only way to make a guy a face is to put him over as invincible? And before you talk about Stone Cold, remember this, every major heel he went against was built up to be a bad ass/ credible threat in his own right. Vince, Shawn, the Rock, the Corporation, the Ministry...

WWE has done the exact opposite for Cena and now seemingly Orton.

Sheamus has been completely emasculated and I don't want to hear shit about transitional champion. He's on his second championship run and put out HHH. He was vicious on ECW and during his first championship run. There's no reason that character should be depicted the way it has been. Cena, Edge, and even Michael Cole buried the guy on commentary. He looks weak as shit.

Edge just doesn't do it anymore. I can't think of the last memorable promo the guy has done or program he has been in. And of Goldberg, Rhino, and him... his spear is the weakest. He's just lingering there.

Jericho is the fucking man, but it seems like he's taken a bit of a backseat in favor of putting some of the young guys over, which isn't a bad thing.

Seeing the Nexus five made me laugh. They may as well end them. Without Skip, they don't look as formidable. They've also been exposed and are no longer a threat. They lose collectively to Cena at Summerslam and have yet to get any clean wins as individuals. They're basically watered down.

If WWE built up more ruthless (think HHH) heels instead of these cartoonish clowns, the program might be better.

Agree with all of that. Orton is so bland and formulaic right now. I wasn't a fan of him turning face and now that it has it has more than failed to live up to expectations. He has no heel rivals and I hate to say it but I think they are building toward a super face Cena vs super face Orton match. The same match we've seen 9 or 10 times already and it will be just as bad as it was the other 10 times.
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Old 09-09-2010, 01:20 AM   #17
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Old 09-09-2010, 02:20 AM   #18
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that's because he is...

he's the most over guy on RAW now, if not the WWE, but he's considered 'stale'. I don't get it.
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Old 09-09-2010, 09:04 AM   #19
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I've enjoyed Sheamus' second title run. His facial expressions after nearly getting punted by Orton the other week were great.

As for monster heels, it seems to me that they've tried to build a few up, but the guys either didn't get as over as they hoped (McIntyre), or they weren't willing to give the guy the in-ring wins to go with him being a monster backstage (thinking Swagger here) so they abruptly dropped it.

Funny thing is that they probably haven't had a true monster/sadistic heel since Orton was systematically taking out the McMahons last year.
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