Barrett, Sheamus, Morrison & Ziggler

[Next Big Thing]

6 months ago everyone was talking about how Morrison and Ziggler were on the rise, and Barrett/Sheamus were potential opponents for the Undertaker or current WWE champion.

Then at the biggest show of the year: Sheamus (2X WWE champ/man who put HHH out) is left off the card, Barrett has a generic stable that loses a squash match and Morrison/Ziggler were essentially accessories to Snooki.

Have these guys hit a permanent road block or did the WWE just not feel they were ready to stand out on their own quite yet?

[Volare]

Could be a number of things, but don't sell ziggy/JoMo short, yes they were working with Snooki, but it gave em both a rub in the mainstream media.

[MoFo]

Barrett v Taker would of been weaksauce compared to previous yrs. Fuck that guy.

Sheamus needs to fuck this mexican geezer up and destroy the hype. I would lose my shit if Sheamus squashed him in his debut match.

Ziggles & Morrison will be alright doing wat they are, with their fancy flips and such making the crowd go "oooooooh".

[NormanSmiley]

there was pissing and moaning about sheamus on a losing streak amonth ago and now they are warming up to him as US champ. to be a fan of this stuff it requires either having a short memory or not over analyzing every little thing.

[Snowden]

Nah, they're just victims of it being Wrestlemania season.

The fact of the matter is, is all of these guys are comfortably in the upper-upper midcard/low main event right now. Not the type of wrestlers who'll get a whole lot of build going into 'Mania.

In the case of Barrett and Sheamus, their original big matches were scrapped in favor of HHH/Taker...less a case for a lack of faith, and more a case of the 'Mania card needing another MAIN EVENT. I think all 4 guys will have really great 2011s from here on out...and I can see Barrett and Ziggler/Morrison (whoever gets the MITB case) both being world champions this year.

[JimmyMess]

- I can buy Sheamus as a threat.
- Barrett has something that can eventually take him there.
- Morrison will get there if he ever develops an ability on the microphone, that is his only limitation
- Ziggler I don't really care for to be honest. He's not as exciting in the ring as Morrison. He's no better a promo guy than any other random mid carder.

They are the future, just not yet.

[BizarroKing]

-Barrett is mostly cooling off for now, besides he is the IC Champion so he has that to his credit even though the squash was BS
-Ziggler needs to lose the dead weight (Vickie)
-JoMo...well I'm not sure what wwe is doing with him
-Sheamus is US Champion and is about to have a big feud it seems with Sin Cara which in turn could push both of them well (btw, Cara's not a geezer, he's only 28)

[Rammsteinmad]

Originally Posted by Next Big Thing 6 months ago everyone was talking about how Morrison and Ziggler were on the rise, and Barrett/Sheamus were potential opponents for the Undertaker or current WWE champion. Then at the biggest show of the year: Sheamus (2X WWE champ/man who put HHH out) is left off the card, Barrett has a generic stable that loses a squash match and Morrison/Ziggler were essentially accessories to Snooki. Have these guys hit a permanent road block or did the WWE just not feel they were ready to stand out on their own quite yet?

This is one of the reasons I was kinda gutted about this Wrestlemania leading into the event. I know WWE is a public company and obviously they're not gonna cater to one internet fan on TPWW.net (though they should), but I was really hoping for a 'fresh' Wrestlemania, where the card would be stacked with young talent, and besides the guys currently on the roster (Triple H, Undertaker, Kane, Big Show, Edge, Mysterio), it would be a chance for the likes of Barrett, Sheamus, Morrison, Ziggler, and others such as Bryan and DiBiase to really usher in a new era for WWE.

But like you said, it feels like a lot of last years rising-stars got shafted here. As soon as I knew Rock, Austin, Trish, Snooki, Lawler were all getting involved, I saw my dream Wrestlemania vanish.

[Next Big Thing]

It really did seem like the "fresh face" movement got stifled a bit. Even Miz was an afterthought to the Rock vs. Cena feud.

However, if we're being absolutely honest, those guys weren't going to be the ones who put the butts in the seats. People paid to see Rock, Austin, HHH, Taker, Snooki and Trish's boobs/ass/thong.

Morrison, Sheamus, Ziggler and Barrett... not so much. I do believe that Sheamus vs. HHH and Barrett vs. Taker could have been done and done well though.

The way the Taker vs. HHH match went with Hunter dominating throughout and then getting caught in Hell's Gate could have easily been replicated in a no DQ match between Barrett and Taker. The history was there too considering it was Barrett directing Nexus to bury Taker alive and if it was no DQ you could have Taker fighting off the Corre as well or even have the Corre get taken out in a 6 man tag squash by Kane, Big Slow and Kofi.

The history was also there with Sheamus and Trips.

Morrison and Ziggler were probably best served in the roles they had.

[Rammsteinmad]

Originally Posted by Next Big Thing However, if we're being absolutely honest, those guys weren't going to be the ones who put the butts in the seats. People paid to see Rock, Austin, HHH, Taker, Snooki and Trish's boobs/ass/thong.

This is why I understand why they did what they did. I was just disapointed because I was hoping for another 'where it all begins again' kinda thing.

[Nicky Fives]

No one will ever pay to Sheamus or Barrett, as they are natural heels...... they do not have "the look" to be face, IMO..... Morrison needs to learn how to talk and Ziggler needs a gimmick...... that's what is holding them back.....

[Next Big Thing]

I dunno Nicky Fives. I think people pay to see good heels as much as they do top faces. I'd pay to see a heel Rock, Stone Cold, HHH Evolution, NWO or Orton over any face they were up against including the almighty Cena.

I just don't think Sheamus and Barrett elicit that kind of response quite yet.

[Emperor Smeat]

Poor long term planning by the WWE rather than the WWE giving up on those wrestlers.

Sheamus and Barrett had some potential Wrestlemania matches set in theory with Sheamus vs Triple H and Barrett vs Undertaker but the WWE dropped both for an Undertaker vs Triple H match.

Ziggler was more due to being a short term main event challenger since Del Rio locked up the title spot when he won the Rumble. It was good that Ziggler had his chance with a title feud but it made sense for it being just a short term feud.

Morrison was basically stuck with nothing due to Sheamus turning his attention to Bryan and the removal of the Money in the Bank match that could have showcased more of Morrison's high flying offense.

[Splaya]

I'm a huge fan of Ziggler and Morrison. Ziggler has really grown on me a lot in the past couple of months. Morrison is Morrison. It's redic to think that with how athletic he is McMahon doesn't give him the strap.

Sheamus is growing on me as well. This feud with Sin Cara is going to elevate both of them. I'm impressed that McMahon opted to go with Sheamus for Cara's first feud.

I'm done with Barrett though. He has the goods, and he's great on the mic, but he is going to have to be repackaged, unless the Corre has a huge push.

[Onyx]

I kind of disagree with people who think sticking Morrison and Ziggler with Snookie was a bad thing for them. You have to remember why the WWE put Snookie in a match at Mania in the first place: media exposure. This is why the match was late in the show instead of curtain jerking, and why Snookie got the pin fall (a perfect image to slap all over websites and magazines). Sure, most of the actual WWE fans could care less about that match, but its the one that would catch the eye of the main stream more than any other match on the card. A non-wrestling fan probably couldn't care less about HHH-Taker, but a match with Snookie in it would get their attention. Sad, but true. That being said, the WWE wouldn't just stick filler talent in the match that would get the most main stream exposure of the entire event. They would obviously want to put people in there that would do something with the exposure. So you have LayCool, arguably the best heel divas on the roster, Trish Stratus who was there to draw attention to Tough Enough, and Morrison and Ziggler who are likely the future of the business. I don't think it's a slight against them at all. More like, hey this match is going to get a lot of attention so give em something to talk about.

[Ultra Mantis]

Morrison got a much better deal than he usually gets, at the very least being involved with Snooki wasn't going to get his match bumped to the pre-show or see him get squashed in a thrown together tag match against Big Show.

[jkman61494]

I can make a case for all of those wrestlers not being WM worthy except Barrett. The guy main evented numerous pay per views and was arguably the best heel in all of the WWE. They could have easily served him up to Taker this year as Taker's revenge for him being "buried" at Summerslam. You get win #19 out of the way and set up this whole Taker/HHH storyline for 2012 when it would have been his 20th victory.

Sheamus? Maybe he vs. HHH isn't WM worthy, but having him get absolutely destroyed by HHH was a complete waste of a feud. Him going over HHH gave him a TON of credibility to WWE fans, and now he's a mid-carder.

Want to use Sheamus well? Have HHH feud with Taker and just ignore Sheamus. Have Taker/HHH go at it for 20 minutes in that no holds barred match, have HHH Pedigree Taker, and just as he's about to win, Sheamus comes out and beats the living hell out of HHH.

It builds Sheamus, it doesn't hurt HHH, and it gives Taker his streak.


the J-Mo/Ziggy stuff I can't totally complain about, but instead of having a MITB match, having a fatal 4 way match between those two, Kofi and Drew McIntyre would have been pretty awesome. Winner gets a future title shot type deal.

Speaking of Drew Mc, what in the hell? The guy was pushed to the moon and didn't get a SNIFF of Mania.

[Mr. Nerfect]

WrestleMania is a big part of it. That Morrison and Ziggler received pushes around Mania time at all says a lot about the WWE's growing faith in them. Their status in the main event will hopefully be fully realised in the coming year. There's also a lot of politics surrounding guys like Sheamus and Barrett coming in and getting huge pushes. There's cool-down periods for a lot of guys who get pushed that fast. We've seen it with Jack Swagger and Drew McIntyre, too.

I'm sure there are people in the WWE who see WrestleMania as "sacred ground," and even the hottest rising stars have to really earn it, and some of them (McIntyre) even miss out. Some probably believe it keeps them working hard, and not getting complacent with where their budding skills are at.

Let's see what happens post-Mania, shall we?

[Fox]

Originally Posted by Noid WrestleMania is a big part of it. That Morrison and Ziggler received pushes around Mania time at all says a lot about the WWE's growing faith in them. Their status in the main event will hopefully be fully realised in the coming year. There's also a lot of politics surrounding guys like Sheamus and Barrett coming in and getting huge pushes. There's cool-down periods for a lot of guys who get pushed that fast. We've seen it with Jack Swagger and Drew McIntyre, too. I'm sure there are people in the WWE who see WrestleMania as "sacred ground," and even the hottest rising stars have to really earn it, and some of them (McIntyre) even miss out. Some probably believe it keeps them working hard, and not getting complacent with where their budding skills are at. Let's see what happens post-Mania, shall we?

I think this is stupid though and WWE should have learned their lesson by now with the way they "haze" the new hot talent this way. They lost Christian to TNA because of the way they constantly kept de-pushing and making him "prove himself." They completely killed any momentum Carlito had going for him and now he's gone (could've been HUGE by now if they would have built him right). They did the same exact thing to Rob Van Dam during his first few years in the company and he rightfully should have been the WWF Champion during his first year - that's just how hot he was. But instead they made him "cool down" and soon enough he was working the dark match at WrestleMania.

Now it seems like they're doing the same shit to the four guys in the topic title as well as McIntyre and Daniel Bryan, just like they did to Low Ki and now he's fucking gone, too.

When someone has momentum and an obvious connection with the crowd, you need to BUILD on that - not break it down to try and make the person "prove" that they have it. That's just fucking stupid.

[Onyx]

Originally Posted by Fox I think this is stupid though and WWE should have learned their lesson by now with the way they "haze" the new hot talent this way. They lost Christian to TNA because of the way they constantly kept de-pushing and making him "prove himself." They completely killed any momentum Carlito had going for him and now he's gone (could've been HUGE by now if they would have built him right). They did the same exact thing to Rob Van Dam during his first few years in the company and he rightfully should have been the WWF Champion during his first year - that's just how hot he was. But instead they made him "cool down" and soon enough he was working the dark match at WrestleMania. Now it seems like they're doing the same shit to the four guys in the topic title as well as McIntyre and Daniel Bryan, just like they did to Low Ki and now he's fucking gone, too. When someone has momentum and an obvious connection with the crowd, you need to BUILD on that - not break it down to try and make the person "prove" that they have it. That's just fucking stupid.

I can't help but the whole thing of making them "prove" themselves is just the excuse that creative and corporate give them when the real reasons, or at least part of the reasons, are politics and whatever else goes on behind closed doors. Regardless, it definitely sucks as they've let some great talent go to waste.

However, one thing to consider. HBK is now gone. Taker is on his last legs. Triple H is slowing down. Edge has hinted that he will be retiring within a few years. Much of the top talent that the WWE has been banking on is either on their way out the door, or already gone. Add to the fact that Cena is now wrapped into a year-long feud with Rock, and you have much more room than before to fill with these guys who have been getting shafted for the last few years. The time for at least some of these guys to rise is coming because the WWE won't have a choice with their top talent retiring or working lighter schedules.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Fox I think this is stupid though and WWE should have learned their lesson by now with the way they "haze" the new hot talent this way. They lost Christian to TNA because of the way they constantly kept de-pushing and making him "prove himself." They completely killed any momentum Carlito had going for him and now he's gone (could've been HUGE by now if they would have built him right). They did the same exact thing to Rob Van Dam during his first few years in the company and he rightfully should have been the WWF Champion during his first year - that's just how hot he was. But instead they made him "cool down" and soon enough he was working the dark match at WrestleMania. Now it seems like they're doing the same shit to the four guys in the topic title as well as McIntyre and Daniel Bryan, just like they did to Low Ki and now he's fucking gone, too. When someone has momentum and an obvious connection with the crowd, you need to BUILD on that - not break it down to try and make the person "prove" that they have it. That's just fucking stupid.

I agree, but that's just the nature of the beast. I think a lot of it is political. I don't think it's a mere coincidence that after Survivor Series '06, CM Punk went from being an undefeated rising star teaming with main eventers to taking two straight falls to Hardcore Holly, including being the first man eliminated from that dreadful Extreme Elimination Chamber.

But then, if you play your cards right, show a willingness to put the company ahead of yourself, etc. -- eventually that becomes just a distant memory. CM Punk is now well established in the main event crust on RAW.

[DLVH84]

I must admit...these four guys have been consistent in their performances. It's only a matter of time, before somebody realizes the hard work they put out in the ring.

[BollywoodSingh]

Originally Posted by MoFo Sheamus needs to fuck this mexican geezer up and destroy the hype. I would lose my shit if Sheamus squashed him in his debut match.

Sin Cara is not just some random Mexican cruiserweight. From what I understand, as Mistico, he was the Steve Austin of Mexico, their biggest box-office draw and a huge star over there, even in their mainstream media.

[RGWhat316]

Yeah this seems to happen every year, and I still dont know why. I also dont really get some opinions on Morrison getting a rub by being with Snooki, since they have tried that before with him with K-Fed and Paris Hilton. It seems the only progress they made in the youth movement this year is Cody defeating Rey.

[Volare]

Dirt sheets talking about heat on JoMo cause of Trish being at Mania, and not Melina. I dunno what I want to believe on that shit.

[Droford]

Ziggler would be future endeavored without Vickie.
Morrison is officially the Marty Jannetty of Miz/Morrison.
Sheamus got shafted at WM cause of his opponent being Daniel "IM TRYING TO BE MORE BORING THAN DEAN MALENKO" Bryan.
Wade Barrett..ugh..I hate what they've done to him over the last couple months..

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by RGWhat316 Yeah this seems to happen every year, and I still dont know why. I also dont really get some opinions on Morrison getting a rub by being with Snooki, since they have tried that before with him with K-Fed and Paris Hilton. It seems the only progress they made in the youth movement this year is Cody defeating Rey.

I agree that they could have done more and used their Mania time better, but ultimately, if you try to push too many young guys at once, you're going to get them lost in the shuffle, and people will say "they had their chance."

[Next Big Thing]

Originally Posted by Volare Dirt sheets talking about heat on JoMo cause of Trish being at Mania, and not Melina. I dunno what I want to believe on that shit.

I wouldn't be surprised if that story was true. Melina has proven herself to be a whiny bitch and if her and Morrison were stil dating while Batista was banging her out then I wouldn't be surprised if he's wrapped around her finger.

[Ultra Mantis]

Originally Posted by RGWhat316 I also dont really get some opinions on Morrison getting a rub by being with Snooki, since they have tried that before with him with K-Fed and Paris Hilton. .

He's not getting a "rub" as such, but he's getting a little bit of mainstream exposure. He's got his picture all over the entertainment websites just by standing next to Snooki after she won.

[Next Big Thing]

True... but Britney Spears body guard gets exposure every time her pic is taken in public too. It doesn't mean he's going to benefit in any way from it, he just happens to be there.

People said the same thing about Otunga bringing in a new audience because his wife was Jennfier Hudson. That has yet to happen and this is going to be no different.

I don't think Jersey Shore fans that aren't already wrestling fans are suddenly going to start tuning in and watching Morrison just because they were on the same team.

In my humble opinion, the only person that is going to benefit from Snooki's appearance is Snooki. Wrestling, particularly women's wrestling, wasn't furthered in any way by that match.

[M-A-G]

Gonna have to go with the consensus on this one. WrestleMania season tends to trigger the dormant A.D.D. in the writers. Tie that into Vince's constant love of money and it leads to stuff being booked that feels comfortable and biased towards a big name marquee. However, I'm still amiss as to what horrible castastrophe would've occurred from giving Sheamus and Bryan 10 minutes on the show.

[Ultra Mantis]

Originally Posted by Next Big Thing True... but Britney Spears body guard gets exposure every time her pic is taken in public too. It doesn't mean he's going to benefit in any way from it, he just happens to be there. People said the same thing about Otunga bringing in a new audience because his wife was Jennfier Hudson. That has yet to happen and this is going to be no different. I don't think Jersey Shore fans that aren't already wrestling fans are suddenly going to start tuning in and watching Morrison just because they were on the same team. In my humble opinion, the only person that is going to benefit from Snooki's appearance is Snooki. Wrestling, particularly women's wrestling, wasn't furthered in any way by that match.

Except thats not the point at all, it's to expose wrestlers to people who don't watch wrestling, not for people to suddenly decide to start watching. WWE wants a mainstream audience to recognise it's talent because it makes them relevant and in turn gets them better sponsorship. Pushing Morrison as world champion isn't going to do anything to get him recognised by non-fans, while stuff like tagging with Snooki is a STEP towards getting exposure.

I'm not saying John Morrison is suddenly an international sensation, but more people know about his existance now than they did before this match.

Honestly have never seen an article where anyone has drawn attention to Britney Spears' bodyguard and the security company he work for.

[Onyx]

Originally Posted by Ultra Mantis Except thats not the point at all, it's to expose wrestlers to people who don't watch wrestling, not for people to suddenly decide to start watching. WWE wants a mainstream audience to recognise it's talent because it makes them relevant and in turn gets them better sponsorship. Pushing Morrison as world champion isn't going to do anything to get him recognised by non-fans, while stuff like tagging with Snooki is a STEP towards getting exposure. I'm not saying John Morrison is suddenly an international sensation, but more people know about his existance now than they did before this match. Honestly have never seen an article where anyone has drawn attention to Britney Spears' bodyguard and the security company he work for.

This.


As for Britney Spears' bodyguard? Hey who's to say it doesn't help him being photographed next to her. Does it help his exposure at being a star? No, he's not an entertainer. Being a star isn't his profession. Duh! But in his field, i.e. being a bodyguard, being able to say "hey, I was Britney Spears' bodyguard....see!?" would likely help him get hired as a bodyguard for other celebrities because Britney Spears is kind of a big deal, gets around a lot, has a large number of screaming fans, etc. So having experience as her bodyguard shows that he knows his shit. So....um, yes, the bodyguard in question does in fact benefit from being photographed with Britney Spears in regards to helping him in his specific profession. K, bye.

[Next Big Thing]

He was paired with Federline, what did that do for him? Big Show was paired with Mayweather, what did that do for him? The few people who bought his movie were wrestling fans, not people who recognized him from Wrestlemania with Floyd Mayweather and wanted to buy his movie because of it. How has being married to Jennifer Hudson helped David Otunga or the ratings when his segments on?

When the mainstream media writes articles about celebrities, the actual wrestlers are merely after thoughts. The angle of the article is usually about the celebrity entering the wacky world of wrestling, not the wrestlers they're working with.

Seriously, how many wrestlers actually went on to endorse products that WWE wasn't already in business with or star in movies not produced by the WWE following angles involving celebrities? When the celebrity goes away, so does the mainstream attention.

[Onyx]

Originally Posted by Next Big Thing He was paired with Federline, what did that do for him? Big Show was paired with Mayweather, what did that do for him? The few people who bought his movie were wrestling fans, not people who recognized him from Wrestlemania with Floyd Mayweather and wanted to buy his movie because of it. How has being married to Jennifer Hudson helped David Otunga or the ratings when his segments on? When the mainstream media writes articles about celebrities, the actual wrestlers are merely after thoughts. The angle of the article is usually about the celebrity entering the wacky world of wrestling, not the wrestlers they're working with. Seriously, how many wrestlers actually went on to endorse products that WWE wasn't already in business with or star in movies not produced by the WWE following angles involving celebrities? When the celebrity goes away, so does the mainstream attention.

Well you're talking about their runs with these celebrities. You obviously remember them. That is the point. Pairing them up with the celebrities isn't designed for long term exposure. If it was, they wouldn't keep bringing celebrities in (after all, its expensive). They would bring in one or two, then sit back and enjoy all the new viewers they got. It doesn't work that way. Seth Green hosted Raw one night. That doesn't mean that a bunch of Seth Green fans now watch wrestling. What it does mean, is that a handful of Seth Green fans tuned in to see him, the same way we tune into a talk show when a celebrity we like is on, and watched it for that one night. Others who didn't watch it at least talked about it ("Hey did you hear so and so was on whatever last night?" "Oh really? What's that?"). The goal of this isn't to make all of those people suddenly become wrestling fans. The point is you grab their attention for just one episode, strut your stuff while they are watching, and hope that you interest a couple of them enough to tune in again next week. It is foolish to assume that one appearance by one celebrity will suddenly turn that celebrities fans into wrestling fans. It's not like that. It's "Hey you like this celebrity? Watch them on Raw." Then "Hey did you like what you saw? Watch Raw again next week." Repeat. You take them one episode at a time.

I mean think about it. What got you interested in watching wrestling? What got you interested in watching any other tv show? Generally, something about the show has to grab your attention in the promos and advertisements. And yes, sometimes that something is a guest star. You watch one episode. If you don't enjoy it, you stop watching. If you enjoy it, maybe you watch a second episode. If you enjoy the second episode, you watch a third. Then eventually maybe you turn into a regular viewer. Maybe you don't. But at least you gave it a chance.

Here's the trick, if they get you to watch because of a guest star, they don't want to blow that guest star on a shitty episode, or in the case of wrestling, a shitty match. They want to put their best foot forward, put on a great show, so they can max out the benefit of the exposure that came with that celebrity. So in the case of the WWE, they are going to want to pair that guest star up with someone who will do well and put on a good show. There is a reason that nearly every Raw guest host did a skit with Santino - he's funny. He can appeal to a lot of people - wrestling fans and non-wrestling fans alike. It was the WWE's way of saying they have more than just wrestling, they have comedy as well. There is also a reason they don't pair the guest star with someone like Koslov. He is boring. So its not a matter of pushing the superstar because they were paired with a celebrity. They pair them with the celebrity because they are going to push them. Or at the very least, because they trust them to put on an entertaining match/promo. Either way, there is a level of trust there.

And let's not forget, Federline wasn't just paired with Morrison. He was in a storyline with Cena. And Cena is and was a top guy in the WWE. Morrison on the other hand, shortly after the Federline angle he went into a feud with Jeff Hardy for the IC belt. A few months later, he went on to win the ECW title. Not long after that, he formed the successful Miz/Morrison team, and won the tag titles. The Federline angle was right before what was probably his most prosperous time in the WWE so far.

The WWE pays big bucks to the marketing guys who decide what celebrities to bring in and what to do with them, and then pay even bigger bucks to the celebrities they bring in. These decision makers are trained. I think they know what they were doing. I mean, they are obviously seeing some kind of result from these superstar/celebrity pair-ups, even if you don't. Otherwise, they would probably stop blowing such big bucks on them. I mean, do you have any idea what Snookie charges for appearances? It's ridiculous.