Discussion about the writing in the WWE

I've heard a few complain about the writing with wwf-fan#1 being the harshest critic. Maybe it's me not seeing what others see, but I think it's been the best in years.

Jericho-Punk was a good build up to their Wrestlemania match.

Punk-Bryan: The IWC went wild about this, and claimed the only storyline needed was who was better, although I disagreed. The addition of Kane was brilliant

Rock-Cena was great

Kane/Bryan anger management thing has been gold

Cena vs Lesnar was solid, although I think the wrong person went over. Was a been fan of Cena going on a massive losing streak, winning the Rumble and winning the title at Wrestlemania, but whatever

Lesnar vs HHH was good

Sheamus's build up as a face has gone better than I expected, and I like how they are giving Ziggler things to do without rushing his MITB briefcase, while constantly keeping him lurking in the background.

Punk/Cena has been very good, and I know people love the addiiton of Paul Heyman, although I don't think he adds anything to Punk, and would be much better in an authority role

AJ as GM has been decent. I expected it to blow, and I still dislike her.

The resurrgance of the Tag division has been a nice surprise and people seem to enjoy it.

Ryback and Sandow's build up has been wonderful

So where am I not seeing this bad storyline writing?

Sure there are things I hate: Santino's run with the U.S title. He doesn't need a title to get over. Not a huge fan of Cesaro at all. Think it'd be better suited on Sandow

There's things the company couldn't control : Orton testing positive AGAIN, Jericho's mishap in Brazil, AW's stupid rape joke.

I think it has more to do with the level of performers and the lack of gimmicks. I love Cody Rhodes, but he's not a maineventer, so there's really only so much you can do with him in the upper-mid card. Cesaro's lack of mic skills, Kofi Kingston: same as Rhodes. He's an upper mid carder and always will be

Anyways, feel free to tell me what I'm not seeing.

[jindrak]

I'm loving the direction of shows now. Lot of new talent being pushed and I think the social media stuff is great too.

[jindrak]

Been very impressed with Sheamus, in particular. He has come a long way.

[Joesgonnakillyou]

I agree entirely with all of your point and I'm shocked at myself.

[Jordan]

I actually met Matt McCarthy I think his name is, who is a stand up comedian and writer for WWE.. he was responsible for Team Hell No's writing and Prime Time Players... awesome guy with great stand up and it bleeds into the product... I've been happy with the comedy stuff this year for sure

[The Condor]

I may be in the minority, but I hate what Sheamus is. Every time I hear the music I change the channel so I don't have to see a big, white, bland cornball who is completely annoying, and somewhat limited in the ring in my view. I was high on Berto but him and Sheamus was 5 months of crap and it wasn't only Del Rio's fault. The writing was lacking in that feud, which was supposed to be a main program and the characters were terrible. Other than the fact that I can't stand those two, I have no major complaints.

[DaveBrawl]

I agree with Gertner, I've enjoyed Raw (don't watch Smackdown enough to really judge it) more this year than I have in a long time. I mean there are always going to be things you don't like, there always have been, but to me overall the show is the most entertaining it's been since like 01.

[#1-norm-fan]

I feel like I could just go back and find all my previous rants about the writers but I guess I can just go point by point...

The writers seemingly have no concept of long-term character development. From The Miz winning the main event at WrestleMania to "K, we're bored, let's forget about him and try something else" to the ridiculous amount of pre-mature title reigns in a lazy attempt to put guys over by giving them a "prestigious" title that only makes the title they're using to put the guys over mean less.

NO ONE on the full-time roster could realistically main event a WrestleMania without Cena or one of the part-timers. None of them. That's a huge problem and it's thanks to the lazy booking not putting any real effort into a couple years of making guys look good and implanting in the audience's mind that they're the real deal.

The best things WWE produces right now also happen to involve Brock Lesnar, The Undertaker, The Rock and Triple H. Guys who aren't there every week and therefore every appearance is "special" and something big can happen. That's fine but it doesn't help week by week when those guys aren't around because they are part timers. When it comes to the full-time card, there is no stability. A bunch of meaningless matches, main eventers vs main eventers tag matches with outcomes that don't mean shit do not help get anyone over.

Not to mention the fact that PPVs over the past year or so have been flooded with filler matches. Filler matches... on PPV. If that's not an indication that the writing is lazy, I don't know what is. When you have that much TV time in a month and a roster as big as they have and you can't build more than just 3 or 4 feuds that to hype PPV matches and you have to fill time on PPV with matches that could be seen on Superstars, lazy writing has to be to blame. There's just no other answer.

Then when there is something "major" that isn't just randomly having guys drift aimlessly, it's just an idea with a beginning and no finish. Remember how everyone was all hyped for the big climax to the AJ-Punk-Bryan story? And every PPV people were like "What's she gonna do???" and I kept saying "she's not gonna choose a side and it's just gonna fizzle out." They started a storyline with a "We'll figure it out later" mindset and it ended with Punk kinda just casually stepping out of the picture an then AJ dumping Daniel Bryan... so she could become GM...?

Jericho's cryptic return video then silent/crying promos are another example of this. Make everyone say "What the fuck is happening!?" and then have Jericho come out and say "TROLLED YOU. Anyway, moving on..." and never actually answer questions. The Kane/Ryder/Eve/Cena thing? We got an Eve heel turn out of it. Pretty much it. All examples of WWE building a story just to have a story but not being creative enough to actually end it. And even worse, not even trying to end it.

[#1-norm-fan]

That being said though, the stuff they're doing with Ryback and Punk is brilliant. I'm not ready to give them TOO much credit after just a couple staredowns but they are doing it perfectly at the moment.

[#1-norm-fan]

Originally Posted by Gertner I think it has more to do with the level of performers and the lack of gimmicks. I love Cody Rhodes, but he's not a maineventer, so there's really only so much you can do with him in the upper-mid card. Cesaro's lack of mic skills, Kofi Kingston: same as Rhodes. He's an upper mid carder and always will be

Not just lack of GIMMICKS but lack of guys with distinguishable characters at all. And that does fall to the writers. I don't think Cody is a main eventer either but he was intriguing at least during the "Dashing" gimmick to the "disfigured" gimmick. It gave him a personality that wasn't paint-by-numbers. He had depth to his character that they could have continued to build on. Now he's CAWdy again.

Too many heels especially are just the same generic heel as the next guy.

[Joesgonnakillyou]

Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan Too many heels especially are just the same generic heel as the next guy.

I think you're being a bit guilty of nostalgia, truthfully there's not been too many wrestlers with 'depth of character', Wrestling's essentially pantomine. it's not HBO.

At the minute it sounds like, to me, you're comparing all of Wrestling's greats from different era's to one specific time, now and that's a one sided battle.

[#1-norm-fan]

No, I'm not comparing eras. I'm simply saying that in sports ENTERTAINMENT, it's important to care about characters. And the generic heel coming out in his tights and boots and saying the same thing that all the other generic heels are saying doesn't make him stand out.

[#1-norm-fan]

Meanwhile, to go back to the Cody Rhodes example, he was generic and bland as fuck and then the disfigured thing added SOMETHING to his personality. While the gimmick wasn't meant to last forever, there were things that it brought out of him character-wise that could have been used. Instead he fell off the map for a while, lost any momentum he had and now here they are, trying again by throwing him with someone more interesting in the tag division.

[#1-norm-fan]

Momentum is a huge thing in developing a character and the writers don't know how to keep it up. See: nearly everyone they've tried to push over the past few years.

It's not even that I find the writing sub par. I wouldn't just find it ridiculous that they don't meet whatever my personal standards are. It's that they genuinely seem not to try and could probably be replaced at the drop of a hat and it wouldn't hurt the product. It's a lazy clusterfuck.

[KIRA]

I agree with Gertner to a point that point being WWEs habit of seemingly flying by the seat of their pants in terms of booking. It seems that if there isnt a major talent involved then the writers could care less and its come to the point where I am no longer excited when the writing team is on the ball because history has taught me that they will inexplicably piss it down their legs sooner than later. A good example would be the recent alliance of Slater, Jinder Mahal and Drew McIntyre I hope like hell this gets them more TV time and that they make a notable impact,I hope this gets McIntyre and Jinder fleshed out as characters but like I said the writing team will likely drop this in a month or so and it'll be forgotten I hope I'm wrong but I doubt it.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

Until they give Drew McIntyre the time travelling gimmick I suggested a while back, I don't rate the writers.

[Ultra Mantis]

They need to call up a guy with the first name Charlie before that happens otherwise the potential of the gimmick is wasted. "You gonna die Charlie!". Instant classic wrestling promo.

[BigCrippyZ]

I completely agree with #1-wwf-fan on this one, with one caveat... I don't blame the writers anymore at this point. I actually solely blame Vince at this point.

If what we've heard from some of the recent former WWE writers is to be believed, he's the one causing all of the problems as it relates to writing, booking, character development, etc.

Even if the former writers are not telling the truth or it's total bullshit (which is very possible!), Vince is the TOP guy, THE man in charge, and he should be able to see the problems and fix them in a relatively quick manner.

I haven't watched RAW in weeks and honestly don't know and don't care what's going on. After I realized that I forgot to watch RAW, I've read some results after a day or two. Nothing I've read or heard has made me want to or even reminded me to tune in the next week.

[Shisen Kopf]

WWE is pretty bad right now. And like that one dude said its all Vince's fault. I don't think the writing is that bad, what is making it a pain in the arse right now, fella is a couple of things. First is Sheamus, he's a good heel but as a face he totally blows and every promo is the same. The whole twitter/tout bull is horrible too. Plus whenever RYBACK isn't on tv all the other rasslers should ask where he is. Serious business.

[Emperor Smeat]

Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan Momentum is a huge thing in developing a character and the writers don't know how to keep it up. See: nearly everyone they've tried to push over the past few years. It's not even that I find the writing sub par. I wouldn't just find it ridiculous that they don't meet whatever my personal standards are. It's that they genuinely seem not to try and could probably be replaced at the drop of a hat and it wouldn't hurt the product. It's a lazy clusterfuck.

Remember reading a few years ago how the writers viewed certain wrestlers as "pet projects" in the sense that they would get all the focus for a push or attention and the abruptly end it once they got bored.

In a sense the writers still have that sort of mentality although this time its mostly in regards to the main event getting the majority of the focus. Gertner's list shows plenty of non-main event stuff is getting focused on but wouldn't be surprised either if most end up being dropped if they can't reach or maintain main event status in the near future.

[#1-norm-fan]

Originally Posted by Smelly Meatball Gertner's list shows plenty of non-main event stuff is getting focused on but wouldn't be surprised either if most end up being dropped if they can't reach or maintain main event status in the near future.

To be fair, out of the 11 things Gertner listed, only two were not involving the main event scene.

[Emperor Smeat]

Correct but a few others were also not involved in the main event a lot more than they should (ex. Punk vs Jericho feud) or have simmered down from their appearances (ex AJ post-Bryan/Punk feud until last week or two).

Was also leaning more towards feuds and things being maintained at that level when I made the reference to his list such as the revival of the tag division could end up falling flat again in the future like it did last time. It might be main event worthy now but no guarantee in the future it stays there.

[XL]

The majority of examples posted by Gertner are Main Event angles, that's never been the issue though. It's stories and development further down the card that WWE struggle with.

For all the success they've had with a guy like Ryback, he's yet to have an actual storyline. Pretty much the same with Sandow. There's no development beyond "this guy it's a main eventer now". That's not a problem for those that watch purely for the action but for me it's the storylines that drive the action and make new want to tune in.

There are so many guys in the midcard doing next to nothing and the only viable options for the writers/Vince seem to be "continue doing nothing" or "put a title on him". Which I think causes more harm than good in the long run. There are so many guys on the roster that have held the midcard titles - often multiple times - and then cease to progress that the audience won't buy them as anything but midcard talent. Look at Kofi, Rhodes, even Ziggler to an extent. It might be that their ceiling is a midcard title, in which case, don't rush them to that level. There's a severe lack of organic progression.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

I think what they need to do is have Heyman become GM, and have him semi-split with Punk at that point. They can still be friendly, but I would love if the association was Punk helping him become GM since Heyman was the one that helped him get his foot in the door.

Once Heyman is GM, I'd love one of his "hand picked" guys to be Cesaro. That way Heyman could talk for him, and he could just be awesome in the ring.

[Curd]

Yoshi Tatsu has been going nowhere for over two years.

Justin Gabriel changed gimmicks twice since 2010, without consequence (Nexus > "Capetown Werewolf" > Wearing elbow-to-wrist arm protectors, still a tag specialist).

Tensai has no storyline after he finished feuding with Cena.

[XL]

None of those are gimmicks. One is a nickname, the other a change of attire. That's the problem, a guy like Gabriel isn't given a personality or mic time or a storyline or a purpose. He's gone from one group to another, to a tag team to another with zero progression up the card or with his character.

Granted, with a renewed focus on the tag division we might see something happen with him but I won't hold my breath. It's easier to pair up 2 established singles guys (Rhodes, Sandow, Kane, Bryan, Kofi, Truth) than add character/motivation/screen time to the teams they already have.

To go back on wwf-fan#1 point. Is it the writers fault that a breakthrough face hasn't emerged? Or is it the talent/person in charge of developing talent. I'm sorry, but as much as I love watching NXT, none of those guys have legitimate main event potential, regardless of how good the writing is.

[#1-norm-fan]

NXT was at one point the most entertaining show on WWE television. Main event doesn't mean most entertaining.

There are guys on the roster that can be and even already have been in the main event though that could legitimately be mainstays in the main event scene. The Miz in a good example. His entire push, his WrestleMania main event win... completely meaningless now. Yeah, he can come out and say "I am a WM main event winner". So? What did it do for him? The writing was such shit that they had no idea where to go from there. And he shouldn't have been at that level so soon in the first place. Now if they wanna push him at some point, they'd have to basically start from scratch because the guy is pretty much on the same level as guys like Cody Rhodes, Wade Barret, Damien Sandow, etc. now.

[#1-norm-fan]

Originally Posted by XL None of those are gimmicks. One is a nickname, the other a change of attire. That's the problem, a guy like Gabriel isn't given a personality or mic time or a storyline or a purpose. He's gone from one group to another, to a tag team to another with zero progression up the card or with his character.

And maybe that's best for Gabriel. Maybe his purpose needs to be wowing us in the ring. And that would be fine. (Not saying it's necessarily the case. Just saying...)

Kidd and Gabriel, let's face it, are not going to be main eventers. So making a tag team is a good idea if they are serious about revitalizing the tag division. Suddenly Kidd and Gabriel have a "peak" that they can realistically reach. They can have the ultimate success of reaching the top of the tag division because World Champion isn't realistic.

That's why I want the cruiserweight division back. You could rely on matches and the guys wouldn't really have to build their characters on promos since the focus is them wowing you in the ring. And ultimately, they'd have that cruiserweight title to aim for and say "I've reached the top". Right now, it seems weird that a guy like Yoshi Tatsu is ultimately in the big picture gunning for the same thing John Cena is.

[#1-norm-fan]

I don't think everyone needs to be working their way up for a potential main event breakout. But everyone needs to be serving a purpose entertainment-wise. This used to not be a difficult concept. Now it doesn't seem like anyone outside like 5 or 6 guys has direction.

As is evident by the example I gave earlier of the pathetic job of doing something so simple as building matches for PPV so you don't need filler. There's more people on the roster than before and they can't build PPV matches all of a sudden. It makes no sense.

[Ultra Mantis]

Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan NXT was at one point the most entertaining show on WWE television. Main event doesn't mean most entertaining.

Yeah, NXT was really a good example of what WWE could be doing with their undercard. Everyone on the show was an absolute jobber in the grand scheme of things but they were all given something to do and it made the whole show interesting. These jobbers had more character development than the entire upper midcard.

It wasnt just relying an opening promo and a main event with a bunch of bland filler in the middle. If they can do that with Bateman, JTG and Tatsu why can't they find anything for the main roster to do? Kofi Kingston is on TV every week but they never do a thing with him other than strap a midcard title around his waist and wonder why it's not getting him over.

[Heyman]

Good thread.

To be honest, I also feel that the WWE has actually made some significant progression over the past few years in their hopes of getting back to Attitude Era like levels.

-CM Punk, as a heel, has been tremendous.
-Daniel Bryan and Kane are over like crazy
-Sandow, Ryback, and Ziggler are over like crazy
-John Cena, Brodus Clay, and Santino are perfect for their target age demographic.

I think the WWE has done a much better job in recent years of getting the fans to buy into the wrestling characters.

However - they still need to do a better of job of developing EVERYONE. In the Attitude Era for instance (before the WCW buyout) almost every single wrestler and character in the WWE had a distinct Identity and character and was 'over' with the fans in some way.

Another thing with the WWE today - I'd like to see them not give up on pushing characters that are over with the fans. For some reason, the WWE toned down R-Truth while also curtailing Zack Ryder's push from earlier this year.

The WWE should also stop pushing wrestlers that fans don't care much for (I.e. Cesar, Tensai, etc.) unless the WWE finds a better way to maximize their characters or re-invent them.

[#1-norm-fan]

Watching the CM Punk documentary. It's odd but everyone is knocking how shitty the booking is. lol

Even HHH is talking about how horrible the title is booked.

Also, Punk talking about how he wasn't informed until the day of the show that he would be getting punted by Orton and taken out of the championship scramble when he first lost the title. I feel like that's been the norm for a while now. You can't just decide the day of shows what you're going to do with major angles. That leads to the clusterfuck of a promotion they're currently running. Can you imagine if any other major form of sports or entertainment were that unorganized and flying by the seat of their pants?

Is the documentary about how shitty Punk is being booked as a champion? He shouldn't be champion in the first place.

[Mercenary]

The matches have been great, but it's the drawn out segments that seems to be hurting it.

[#1-norm-fan]

Originally Posted by Gertner Is the documentary about how shitty Punk is being booked as a champion? He shouldn't be champion in the first place.

Triple H was talking about how the title being used to elevate a guy as opposed to working their way to the level of champion is retarded and how after him being champion he was still a glorified mid-carder.

Clusterfuck basically.

And why I despise the way they use the Money in the Bank gimmick. After Edge cashed in the first time, it was a huge deal. It dwindled from there and now it's meaningless.

I'll have to watch it tonight at work

[#1-norm-fan]

As far as Punk as champion, he's the best option they've got at the moment. He's a good heel champion and a very good main eventer. He's not the guy who can be at the top of the marquee on a WrestleMania but outside of Cena, no full-time guy in the company is. Punk's definitely on his way to that point. He just needs some more time being booked consistently as a main event star.

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan Triple H was talking about how the title being used to elevate a guy as opposed to working their way to the level of champion is retarded and how after him being champion he was still a glorified mid-

That is so true by the way.

Using a world title win/reign as a way of eliminating the glass ceiling essentially does nothing. Ask Jack Swagger and The Miz.

Instead of making the WWE/world title(s) mean less, what the WWE needs to do is have the IC and US titles mean MORE.

Back in 1998 for instance when The Rock fought Triple H at Summerslam, fans really bought into the prestige of the IC title.

[BigCrippyZ]

Originally Posted by Heyman Instead of making the WWE/world title(s) mean less, what the WWE needs to do is have the IC and US titles mean MORE. Back in 1998 for instance when The Rock fought Triple H at Summerslam, fans really bought into the prestige of the IC title.

Definitely. Although I guess it didn't hurt that Rock & HHH had a great chemistry, but they really put it all out there and they both wanted to show that they should be in the main event scene.

I don't get that impression from very many (if any) guys on today's roster. I don't know if it's the talent's lack of talent, talent's lack of drive/ambition, or the lack of opportunity or freedom to show that they belong in the main event scene (whether through too much scripting/fear of discipline/firing?), or a combination of all three.