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Old 05-10-2004, 03:40 PM   #1
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DISCUSSION - How would an Evolution versues Ministry "interpromotional" feud sound?
DISCUSSION - How would a Evolution versues Ministry "interpromotional" feud sound?

I swear that I've posted something similar to this before (circa February), but I can't find any traces of that thread/post using the Search Function.

Anyways - I'll re-post this.

In your opinion, would you like to see an Evolution vs. Ministry stable? (I'm assuming that Undertaker will be forming a new Ministry with Mordecai, Papa Booker T Shango , and perhaps someone else).

Personally - I kind of like the idea of them going up against Evolution (Triple H, Randy Orton, Dave Batista, and Ric Flair). Here are some advantages that I can see from this.


Triple H and Undertaker, due to them being involved with one another, get taken out of the main-event title scene for awhile
-With Triple H feuding with Undertaker, it allows Chris Benoit to face some NEW opponents........such as Chris Jericho, Kane, Edge, Christian, etc.

This "interpromotional" feud could help ratings: An interpromotional feud involving STABLES hasn't been done before (or atleast in a VERY long time). Perhaps this 'intrigue' could help ratings.

Smackdown is lacking in star power right now. If Evolution were to make 'attacks' on the Ministry on Smackdown (on a regular basis), perhaps Smackdown can get their lost viewers back (and maybe more).

Taker's "henchmen" can get 'over' by feuding with Evolution: Assuming that this "Mordecai" character is a part of Taker's stable, he'd get over right away by feuding with the likes of Randy Orton and Dave Batista (and being made to look on the same level as them).


Randy Orton can add to his 'resume' by defeating Undertaker

-As some of you have pointed out, this probably won't happen (i.e. Taker doing a clean JOB to Randy Orton). Let's say that he DOES however (and Orton's final victory over Undertaker proves to be the deciding factor in Evolution's victory over the Ministry). This makes Orton look even more like a legend killer.





Here is what I'm thinking right now:

a) Undertaker forms his new ministry
b) Undertaker defeats Booker T at the next PPV, and 'converts him' I guess.

c) Taker fully forms his Ministry. Undertaker then cuts a promo and talks about some "mysterious plan"

d) The Ministry, for no apparent reason, go to the next RAW PPV and attack Triple H in one of his matches (perhaps they do the same for Orton as well?).

e) The Ministry and Evolution engage in a 2-3 month long feud (kind of like The Nation and DX).

f) Triple H tries to defeat Undertaker one-on-one in a match, but fails (the match gets DQ'ed or something).

g) Orton however, defeats Undertaker a little while later.

h) The Evolution/Ministry feud ends


i) On Raw - Orton brags about how he beat Taker.......and Triple H did not. This sets the tone for a future Orton/Triple H feud (where Orton goes over).
On Smackdown --> Mordecai talks about how he and his fellow "brothers" (i.e. Ministry members) looked upon the Undertaker as a "father".......but he has let them down. This sets up a Mordecai/Taker feud (perhaps Mordecai takes over the Ministry?).







Anyways - what do you think? Could this work?

Perhaps this sort of thing would have to be pushed back a bit (since Triple H is leaving to film movies for a bit if I understand correctly).
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Old 05-10-2004, 03:46 PM   #2
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It's a lot more interesting than half of what's going on...Which isn't necessarily saying much.
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Old 05-10-2004, 03:49 PM   #3
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Problem.

The Ministry and Evolution BOTH need to be heels.
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Old 05-10-2004, 03:53 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
It's a lot more interesting than half of what's going on...Which isn't necessarily saying much.
I think something like this would really help Smackdown more than anything (since Evolution would be attacking the Ministry). Even Raw would be helped by this.

If the Draft Lottery was of any indication, it seems like the fans love seeing the two brands 'interact'.

Secondly - when was the last time we actually SAW a stable war? With two "high-profile" stables going at one another, I can't see how this would be a let down (although this IS the WWE ).

The biggest thing for me however - is that Triple H would be removed from the World title scene.......which would allow other guys to feud with Benoit for the title. To pacify Triple H's ego, he would still be involved in a high profile feud.
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Old 05-10-2004, 03:55 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondermouse
Problem.

The Ministry and Evolution BOTH need to be heels.
werd
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Old 05-10-2004, 03:57 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondermouse
Problem.

The Ministry and Evolution BOTH need to be heels.
Not neccessarily.

Remember the ORIGINAL Ministry from 99'? When they were harrassing Vince McMahon, they were getting popped quite nicely (despite doing heelish things).

It was only when they aligned themselves with Shane (and soon to be Vince as well), that they "offically" became heels.


I think the heel vs. heel thing could work (either that, or the fans could decide which stable would be face...........in which case it WOULD be heel vs. face).

Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit last year, had a VERY solid heel vs. heel feud. The crowd cheered and booed both men.

Recently - with the HBK/Benoit feud --> both men are faces......and yet get cheered and booed.

I'm thinking that the same thing can happen with the Evolution/Ministry thing.
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Old 05-10-2004, 04:01 PM   #7
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Old 05-10-2004, 04:12 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyman
I think something like this would really help Smackdown more than anything (since Evolution would be attacking the Ministry). Even Raw would be helped by this.

If the Draft Lottery was of any indication, it seems like the fans love seeing the two brands 'interact'.

Secondly - when was the last time we actually SAW a stable war? With two "high-profile" stables going at one another, I can't see how this would be a let down (although this IS the WWE ).

The biggest thing for me however - is that Triple H would be removed from the World title scene.......which would allow other guys to feud with Benoit for the title. To pacify Triple H's ego, he would still be involved in a high profile feud.
I'd personally like to see the two brands remain as seperate as possible. As it's become more apparent that they won't be, I think an interpromotional feud might be a good one.

That doesn't mean I don't see some problems:

Occupying time on both shows. Part of the problem here is that some people are happy to see HHH on only one show a week, but the bigger problem is that not everyone follows (or even gets) both programs. While it might encourage people to watch both, only having one story point might be a turnoff in that sense, and might further breed discontent.

Evolution is established, the Ministry hasn't happened yet. while the seeds of a "Darkness" stable look like they're in the works, it's not guaranteed.

As you yourself stated, it's unlikely that Taker would lay down clean for the Legend Killer, meaning his own "credibility" as the greatest thing since sliced bread is likely to be tarnished.

I could swear I had another, but it isn't coming back to me. :mah:
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Old 05-10-2004, 04:21 PM   #9
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Yeah I remember writing about this

Its an interesting idea, but I dont think Taker will be forming a Ministry group. Ive said this many times, but I think they are trying to build a stable of evil type characters to feud with Taker, rather than align with him. Maybe way down the road after a feud, perhaps they do a Taker heel turn, and then he forms a Ministry type faction, but for the near future I see him as a babyface which means no stable.

Like I said I could see a stable with Mordecai, maybe adding Booker T, Mideon and maybe the Bashams or something to feud with Taker.

You could have them feud with Taker, and then Heyman's faction (ECW Alumni) feuding with Eddie. I think that would be effective angles for both Eddie and Taker.

In terms of an interpromotional faction feud, I'd rather see them bring back War Games for SurvSer and have 4 or 5 SD guys face 4 or 5 RAW guys as part of my previously suggested Davis/Ryder Cup idea for the brands.
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Old 05-10-2004, 06:49 PM   #10
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I'm not saying that a Ministry couldn't be a face stable.

I'm saying Smackdown needs heels, and if Ministry forms, it needs to be a heel stable.
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Old 05-10-2004, 07:08 PM   #11
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I'd rather see an ECW/Evolution feud far down the road after they finish their feuds with Benoit, Edge, and Eddie.
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Old 05-10-2004, 07:15 PM   #12
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You do realise the Ministry drew absolutely nothing last time they were in town don't you? It's alway a good idea to renew old angles thtt didn't get over the first time
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Old 05-10-2004, 07:27 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
You do realise the Ministry drew absolutely nothing last time they were in town don't you? It's alway a good idea to renew old angles thtt didn't get over the first time

Like HHH winning a title with a sledgehammer shot to the champion?
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Old 05-10-2004, 07:27 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
You do realise the Ministry drew absolutely nothing last time they were in town don't you? It's alway a good idea to renew old angles thtt didn't get over the first time
There's something to tell everyone at the nWo's 5784935789th reunion.
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Old 05-10-2004, 07:40 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Rob
You do realise the Ministry drew absolutely nothing last time they were in town don't you? It's alway a good idea to renew old angles thtt didn't get over the first time
Who cares, I loved the Ministry. And that's the WWE's #1 priority, to keep Loose Cannon happy.

Oh yeah, was the thing about Papa Shango coming back really in the Observar?

I'll post a bigger response to this discussion later BTW.
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Old 05-10-2004, 07:59 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
You do realise the Ministry drew absolutely nothing last time they were in town don't you? It's alway a good idea to renew old angles thtt didn't get over the first time
The Ministry formed in early 1999..............a time when the WWE was at or very near it's peak.

As far as the Ministry goes, they ended up being Austin's biggest opponent(s) when they aligned with Vince.
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Old 05-10-2004, 08:05 PM   #17
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Here's the way I'd like to see it happen.

-The Ministry forms and becomes strong, etc.

-HHH leaves to do his movie thing

-The ministry starts doing things to attack and/or freak out Evolution culminating at a big beatdown at some PPV, possibly even "injuring" Orton.

-HHH comes back to "save" his Evolution buddies. He schedules a match vs Undertaker at Summerslam. HHH loses.

-A 4 on 4 match is made for Survivor Series. Undertaker, Booker T, Mordecai, and somebody else vs HHH, Orton, Batista, Flair. Flair and Batista get taken out early leaving Orton and HHH. HHH plays the typical scared heel and doesn't want to get in the ring. Orton goes in strong and takes out Mordecai and the other guy. Undertaker comes in and roughs Orton up possibly "re-injuring" him. HHH comes in and jobs to Booker T. Orton, the bloody, injured, surviving member of the team, then comes in and goes over both guys. Loose Cannon buys a new pair of pants.


I think it would work better in this case if both teams were heels. Orton would get a lot of crowd support being the hurt guy kicking ass. He'd then carry that momentum into the next night at Raw where he brags about doing what HHH couldn't (more face reaction) and ends up leaving Evolution and feuding with HHH for a while as a face.
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Old 05-10-2004, 08:06 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
Who cares, I loved the Ministry. And that's the WWE's #1 priority, to keep Loose Cannon happy.

Oh yeah, was the thing about Papa Shango coming back really in the Observar?

I'll post a bigger response to this discussion later BTW.
It was something about Booker T being the new Papa Shango. Not a Charles Wright return.
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Old 05-10-2004, 08:11 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyman
The Ministry formed in early 1999..............a time when the WWE was at or very near it's peak.

As far as the Ministry goes, they ended up being Austin's biggest opponent(s) when they aligned with Vince.
Taker and Austin drew the money. Ministry had nothing to do with it. The amount of time the angle lasted shows how well it drew. Austin would have drew the same amount of money against Jeff Jarrett or Owen Hart (two highish level mid carders at the time obviously prior to Owen's death) because he was insanely over.
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Old 05-10-2004, 08:11 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyman
The Ministry formed in early 1999..............a time when the WWE was at or very near it's peak.

As far as the Ministry goes, they ended up being Austin's biggest opponent(s) when they aligned with Vince.
Taker-Austin did big business in 98, but that was before the Ministry stuff.

They did do some really strong TV numbers in 99, and I think the highest rated match on RAW for a time (or maybe it still is) was the show where Austin took the title from Taker in one of the Carolinas I believe.

But that feud itself though didn't draw a ton of money, mainly because by that point Austin-Taker was a played out feud. Yeah they still did some strong numbers because business was hot, but everything was doing well at that point, they didn't really improve business any.
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Old 05-10-2004, 08:13 PM   #21
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Pure and simple.
Given it's Undertakers last run as he's nearing retirement, or should be, the WWE should indulge him a little, give him a stable and plenty storylines to play with, and use that to bring on, or put over, other wrestlers, and in the meantime, let UT and the fans have some fun.

As to the question of should it be a Ministry v Evolution cross-show feud?
Certainly not yet.
I think that the Ministry would need time to develop, grow, and build a reputation as Evolution have had the time to do.
Then, when the time is right, some bickering at some joint PPV's, some match interference, and then a huge battle ending at Wrestlemania XXI.

At that time, they should boot Triple H from Evolution for dropping the ball, or costing them the match-up, and the Randy Orton leads Evolution storyline should kick off.

Meantime, a similar sort of thing could kick off within the SD Ministry, with struggles for dominance, or adding/exiting members, or even Taker retiring on a high note after winning 634 consecutive Wrestlemanias.

Then again, maybe that's too long term for the WWE writers to consider.
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Old 05-10-2004, 09:44 PM   #22
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I do not like the idea of Undertaker re-creating a new Ministry. He should have come back in his old Undertaker garb and retired at Wrestle Mania XX.
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Old 05-10-2004, 09:45 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big_bluto
Pure and simple.
Given it's Undertakers last run as he's nearing retirement, or should be, the WWE should indulge him a little, give him a stable and plenty storylines to play with, and use that to bring on, or put over, other wrestlers, and in the meantime, let UT and the fans have some fun.
The thing is he's not really happy doing the Deadman gimmick, he was happier doing his Biker Gimmick being the WWE's answer to Tito Ortiz. Heck he even managed to get in a submission move in his match with FBI on SD.

But I dont think Taker would be happy sharing the spotlight with a bunch of jabronies, I think he likes being the star, and like Ive said before I dont see how forming a faction keeps him a face, and thats what he has to be at this point.
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Old 05-11-2004, 12:31 AM   #24
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LOL @ Rob's caption or whatever under his name!!

Anyway, this fued could possibly be interesting, but as posted before, Ministry would need several months to develop and prove that they are interesting and actually a good idea.


Plus My most important objection to this is that I want to see Booker T become a dominant heel on Smackdown and Fued with Eddie. I don't want to see him become UT's lacky.

Plus I will never admit to liking one of Heyman's ideas anyways.
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Old 05-11-2004, 12:44 AM   #25
Hired Hitman
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Hired Hitman has a great deal of rep (15,000+)Hired Hitman has a great deal of rep (15,000+)Hired Hitman has a great deal of rep (15,000+)Hired Hitman has a great deal of rep (15,000+)Hired Hitman has a great deal of rep (15,000+)Hired Hitman has a great deal of rep (15,000+)Hired Hitman has a great deal of rep (15,000+)
I loved The Ministry, they looked cool
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