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Old 11-14-2012, 07:33 AM   #1
Autobahn
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What made Eddie Guererro so great?
It was 7 years ago recently since he passed away, and I have to admit, the guy was a gifted wrestler but there was something about him that made him a special wrestler. I can't put my finger on what his appeal was that made me like and respect him so much...maybe because his charisma showed a lot more to me during the 'lie, cheat steal' period, or just how much the wrestling world is missing someone like him in this business.

What is it that makes him that special? I know after death some people make more of a big deal of a person compared to when they are alive, but with Eddie I have no doubt it is well and truly justified.






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I'm like Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania 12. I beat that ass for 60 minutes, and then I go for the win during overtime.

*HBK pose and pyro*
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:44 AM   #2
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Eddie Guerrero had the IT Factor he had IT coming out the ass. Probably had IT more than any other superstar I have ever seen. Unbelievable wrestler with just a great love of life and entertainment. The IT Factor is hard to define, but when somebody has it you know and when somebody doesn't have it you know. It's pretty sad that somebody with such a love for life was taken away from his wife and children at such a young age.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:46 AM   #3
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People become great when they die young. That's one way to cement your legacy. Look at Owen too. He was a very good rassler but b/c of what happened some people think he was better than Bret. And that's just dumb.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:50 AM   #4
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Quote:
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Eddie Guerrero had the IT Factor he had IT coming out the ass. Probably had IT more than any other superstar I have ever seen. Unbelievable wrestler with just a great love of life and entertainment. The IT Factor is hard to define, but when somebody has it you know and when somebody doesn't have it you know.
I thought this as well, but honestly think there is more to it, probably a combination of things.

He had charisma, talent, and a character that was unusually honest in that he didn't hide that he cheated to win. I think by the IT factor it would be a combination of so many of these different things.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:12 AM   #5
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Everything. [/thread]
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:36 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shisen Kopf View Post
People become great when they die young. That's one way to cement your legacy. Look at Owen too. He was a very good rassler but b/c of what happened some people think he was better than Bret. And that's just dumb.
My left nut is better than Bret.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:13 AM   #7
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He was one of those rare guys who scored a 10/10 in every category: workrate, mic work, charisma, athleticism, attitude, etc. Even the top guys usually fall a bit in one of the categories, but Eddie really didn't. He was a total package.

And, of course, that "It Factor" we hear so much about.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:21 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shisen Kopf View Post
People become great when they die young. That's one way to cement your legacy. Look at Owen too. He was a very good rassler but b/c of what happened some people think he was better than Bret. And that's just dumb.
I grow less intelligent through reading any of your posts.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:31 AM   #9
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Bret Hart is the 4th greatest rassler of all time. There is none better other than 3 others.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:09 PM   #10
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His lying, cheating, and stealing.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:18 PM   #11
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His lying, cheating, and stealing.
That is unacceptable behavior for a role model. He could never have rassled in ROH with that disgusting attitude.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:59 PM   #12
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Quote:
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That is unacceptable behavior for a role model. He could never have rassled in ROH with that disgusting attitude.
That's fine. He'd drop the gimmick for some reason, renounce it, and do nothing but finisher after finisher to redeem himself in the eyes of the fans.

I bet he had awesome fightan spirit.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:00 PM   #13
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RPI eddei guereor
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:48 PM   #14
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It's blasphemy, but never thought Eddy was the shit like everybody else. He was good and entertaining but not some otherworldly and indescribably transcendent figure for me. He was real good, died young, it's a pity.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:36 PM   #15
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Like others have said Eddie was the total package. He had in-ring skill, charisma out the wazoo, the "IT" factor, and despite his height actually had a believable look as a champion. I see Eddie as the perfect hybrid of IWC hero and WWE superstar.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:51 PM   #16
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Also had a tragic story and was the underdog everyone loves to get behind.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:03 PM   #17
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charisma [/thread]
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:05 PM   #18
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I thought Owen was better than Eddie. I don't know what that has to do with anything, but I just felt like saying it here.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:52 PM   #19
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Pretty much was a "total package" type wrestler but as a late bloomer than someone seen as a great early on in his WCW and WWE career. Really doesn't start his move to eventual legendary status until around 2003/2004 with his US title chase and tag stuff with Chavo.

Even in terms of the Radicalz group, Malenko and Benoit were the better skilled wrestlers and Benoit achieved top status quicker than Eddie. Eddie's biggest benefit compared to those two was him being able to improve his promo and entertainer skills over time which benefited whatever character/gimmick he had later on.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:05 PM   #20
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Eddie Guerrero ... man, I really am connected to some of the fallen guys... What made Eddie special? I'd say best to read JBL's imput or Chris Jericho's recent book. However, Eddie was the fith pro wrestler that I remember ever knowing.

I knew The Undertaker from a very young age, maybe 6 years old, from watching a tape of The Royal Rumble and the only things that left with me were The Undertaker and Ric Flair. Later on, I caught WWF Superstars on TV and remembered Yokozuna and Shawn Michaels. After it went off the air a WCW Worldwide program came on from The Studio they used at the time, and I was really impressed and remembered a very mulleted mustached Eddie Guerrero, and how awesome his moves were. Then later I got WCW vs NWO World Tour and LOVED IT. And loved Eddie's moveset.

I remember when Eddie got hurt really bad in WCW and was gone for a long time, eventually he came back jacked like never before, totally changed his body. He looked like a killer. He was fierce in the ring, and with the new look was the most physical Luchadore EVER. You can consider him a Junior Heavyweight of course as well. He was also hilarious when he would talk, a total natural, never gave the "standard wrestling promo" at any time. After that pushed faded and Eddie and the other Radicals invaded Raw, you got the sense that Eddie had what it took to be a WWE main eventer.

Though it took several years due to his daemons, which ultimately cost him everything. But he got to live his dream and held his arms high with his best friend Chris Benoit at Wrestlemania 20, one of the best feel good moments in the sport.

Eddie could have a good match with anyone, cut hilarious promo's and skits, and as well as Owen Hart was clearly just one of the best guys around.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:06 PM   #21
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Eddie was like Shawn Michaels - what couldn't he do?
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:07 PM   #22
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Shisen, I'll go ahead and make the "live past 40" joke for you.
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:19 PM   #23
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Quote:
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Eddie was like Shawn Michaels - what couldn't he do?
I'm glad that this comparison has been drawn. Eddie Guerrero vs. Shawn Michaels is a match that I would have loved to have seen at WrestleMania for the WWE Title one year.

Nicky Fives also nails it when he simply said "charisma." Eddie did have charisma -- the sort of charisma that people mean when they talk about "It Factor." It's the charisma of a guy who could lead the product, in terms of quality. It's not just mic skills or having a personality. It's having that something "special."

Look, there were times when I didn't think Eddie Guerrero was that great (his initial WWE run). He was always good, don't get me wrong -- but he wasn't as great as many other guys on the roster. But somehow Eddie discovered something in himself when he returned to the WWE in 2002. It came out in his original run with Chavo as "Los Guerreros" on SmackDown, and it stayed with him until the end of his career.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:04 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
Eddie was like Shawn Michaels - what couldn't he do?
This.

Only thing ill say is this:

Eddie, much like Kurt Angle, should never have turned face. They should have kept him as a heel (tweener?) and just let the fans react however they wanted.

Guerrero, much like Angle in all of his face runs, lost a lot of momentum when they turned him face in 2004. The moment with Benoit at Wrestlemania was epic but aside from that, turning Guerrero face was a mistake when looking back in retrospect.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:10 PM   #25
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On another note, the only thing Eddie really lacked was size.....and unfortunately, that means a lot in the wrestling business.

Eddie also lacked a true "alpha" personality like Austin, Bret, Shawn, Hogan, Rock, Cena, etc., and unfortunately, if you don't have an 'alpha' personality then you'll never feel fully comfortable in being THE guy.

Guerrero, much like Owen Hart, was a people pleaser to the extreme......and when someone is extreme in this regard, it often prevents one from being the figurehead of the company. People like this often do NOT want the responsibility of being the top dog for an extended period of time as to avoid potential politics and conflicts. That is both good and bad I guess.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:10 AM   #26
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Bret Hart is the 4th greatest rassler of all time. There is none better other than 3 others.
It's not that. Bret is my all time favourite. Just, Owen was great as well, some people genuinely think he was better than Bret and in some ways he was... from what I've gathered, is if Owen took wrestling half as serious as Bret, he would have been the man... Bret would probably back that himself. I mean he is an absolutely classic heel, and although chances were limited had potential as a great face. His death aside, Owen would have always been an internet darling regardless.

Eddie is Eddie, people worshiped him when he was alive. So pretty much what you're saying does not apply to either of the examples you brought up.

I also just don't like you.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:37 AM   #27
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Everything posted about Eddie's charistma and "it" factor.

First time I saw Eddie, much like Fragile X, was an episode of WCW Worldwide. Actually, I can say the same about Chris Jericho. Even though he was lower card fodder, he had this air of "self importance" as a cocky heel that seemed unwarranted, until he stepped in the ring. His matches were pretty top notch.

The cocky heel thing is what got me watching, his wrestling sold me on him, and his "cheating" that he did even then got me hooked. He used to do that "pretending to be hit with the chair so his opponent gets DQ'd" thing even in WCW. He was one of those guys that WCW seemed to be squatting on just so Vince couldn't get to them, but had no idea how to book the guy.

Bottom line is, Eddie should have been bigger sooner. They kind of wasted him similar to the way they wasted Austin.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:44 AM   #28
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Eddie made me want to root for him. He was so likable. People today I'm just like ehh you can wrestle but so what? Eddie was like so what? So I'm freaking awesome!
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:48 AM   #29
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WCW never had an idea on how to make stars. Other than Goldberg and DDP, every single major star they had was made in WWF. They got lucky with Goldberg and DDP and showed that they had no idea how to use them. Goldberg was a perfect storm that they completely fucked up within 6 months and they waited too long to push DDP. If anything, you could argue DDP and Goldberg got over in spite of WCW. Goldberg was booked as unstoppable, but after he beat Hogan for the title...he only headlined 2 PPVs - Halloween Havoc and Starrcade. DDP was in high profile matches but they never pulled the trigger on DDP to put him at the same level as Hogan until Spring Stampede 99 by which point most people quit watching WCW anyway.

DDP should have come THIS CLOSE to beating Goldberg at Halloween Havoc but doesn't pull it out. Goldberg kicks out of a out-of-nowhere Diamond Cutter. Goldberg is dazed and DDP goes for a set up one, which Goldberg counters into a Jackhammer. Goldberg beats Nash at World War III. DDP then wins the WW3 battle royal and vows to get it done on the grandaddy of them all. Starrcade 98 - DDP vs Goldberg: You have the same awesome match that had at Havoc, but when Goldberg kicks out of the Diamond Cutter - DDP goes on the attack. Goldberg fights back. Irish whip - reversal - SPEAR! Goldberg is jacked. He picks up DDP for the Jackhammer -- he gets him up -- he starts to slam him down when out of nowhere DDP lands the Diamond Cutter! 1-2-3!!! Diamond Dallas Page wins the World Heavyweight Championship and Starrcade comes to a close with Goldberg shaking DDP's hand and DDP celebrating in the crowd as "The People's Champion" has become "World Heavyweight Champion". Goldberg loses, but it has a story to it and as such it doesn't completely ruin him and WCW cashes in on one of their hottest stars.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:55 AM   #30
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I don't think it had as much to do with WCW not mowing what to do, as it did with the politics and glass ceiling.

Since 2002, the WWE has had many of the same problems on very frequent occassions.

There is just too much fear to give the ball to the new guy(s) while deviating from what is an established "sure" thing.

The only reason why the WWE went this route during the mid 90's with Austin, Rocky, Hunter, Mankind, etc., was because they had no choice.

After the Attitude era, the WWE had numerous chances to give the ball to the likes of RVD, Orton, Lesnar, CM Punk, etc. and push them the right way but failed miserably each time (for various reasons.....although some of it was brought Pom the wrestlers themselves)
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:00 AM   #31
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Seriously, find me a better Goldberg match. It wasn't a 30 minute masterpiece, but it didn't need to be. The story it told of DDP weakening Goldberg and coming so close...but so far away. Build that up over a few more months and it would have been white hot at Starrcade.
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:06 AM   #32
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Quote:
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I don't think it had as much to do with WCW not mowing what to do, as it did with the politics and glass ceiling.

Since 2002, the WWE has had many of the same problems on very frequent occassions.

There is just too much fear to give the ball to the new guy(s) while deviating from what is an established "sure" thing.

The only reason why the WWE went this route during the mid 90's with Austin, Rocky, Hunter, Mankind, etc., was because they had no choice.

After the Attitude era, the WWE had numerous chances to give the ball to the likes of RVD, Orton, Lesnar, CM Punk, etc. and push them the right way but failed miserably each time (for various reasons.....although some of it was brought Pom the wrestlers themselves)
RVD proved why they didn't give him the ball for so long.
Orton has proved why he can't be given the ball.
Lesnar was given the ball, but he took it to the NFL.
CM Punk has been given a share of the ball and a large share of it. I think we will see this as he will headline WrestleMania and not John Cena (unless they do do the Rock/Punk/Cena 3-way).
Nobody else has really been over enough to be given the ball. Christian and those guys have never been and never will be "the top guy".
WWE has way too many heels. They need to take the same risks with babyfaces they do with heels. The problem WWE has is they think they can manufacture "top guys". You don't. You can't. Whether it was Hogan, Hart, Michaels, Austin, Rock, Cena, Goldberg, etc., you didn't just put the belt on them or put them in a bunch of main events and that automatically made them a huge top tier star. It has to be organic and years in the making. CM Punk is another example of that. You have to be on TV for a few years at least and build a deep character and story around your character. Ryback is a flash in the pan and will fizzle unless they flesh him out. Hart, Michaels, Austin, Rock, Cena, and Punk all had a WWE career that people knew about and became invested in the character as they battled for the Intercontinental Championship and worked their way up the ladder. When the time finally came for them to break through into that "next level", the fans wanted it and demanded it to the point of where it couldn't be denied.
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:08 AM   #33
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I've never understood the appeal for Eddie
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:10 AM   #34
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Yeah I know. I remember seeing Eddie's first match in the WWF at a smackdown taping at Joe Louis Arena and he fucked his arm up doing that frog splash. Well, I guess it was more of a toad splat but yeah. He was good but he wasn't great like a Bret Hart.
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:13 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
RVD proved why they didn't give him the ball for so long.
Orton has proved why he can't be given the ball.
Lesnar was given the ball, but he took it to the NFL.
CM Punk has been given a share of the ball and a large share of it. I think we will see this as he will headline WrestleMania and not John Cena (unless they do do the Rock/Punk/Cena 3-way).
Nobody else has really been over enough to be given the ball. Christian has never been and never will be "the top guy".
WWE has way too many heels. They need to take the same risks with babyfaces they do with heels.
-if the WWE had given RVD the ball in 2001/02 instead of 2006, it could have ushered in or atleast progressed a new attitude era. The guy was over as fuck. A relatively minor incident like the one he had in 2006 shouldn't have curtailed his push.....especially if that guy can bring in major revenue.

-CM Punk, Orton, and Lesnar were turned face way too prematurely due to a hint of the fans cheering them (as opposed to what they did with Austin in 97' and Rocky in 98' where they kept both men heel for an extended period of time, despite getting cheers, in order to further develop their characters).

Just boneheaded mistakes. Angle and Guerrero, despite achieving a decent amount of success, were also essentially under utilized. Ditto for Jericho.
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:23 AM   #36
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RVD repeatedly bashed the WWE in 01-03 and was basically bragging about how much dope he smoked. I don't care how over he is, you can't give that guy the ball.

Orton I would agree with. Punk and Lesnar's face turns were pretty good timing. Punk was white hot and coming off a huge heel run of almost 3 years and was the perfect foil for Cena and the anti-Cena sentiment. Lesnar was getting cheered over The Rock. Brock Lesnar had arrived and the evil monster heel had run its course. I think Paul Heyman turning on him was dumb. Brock Lesnar should have finally said "Fuck it." and violently thrown Paul Heyman to the curb. It would have been similar to Batista finally realizing he was being used by HHH/Flair and he didn't need them anymore. Tease tension between Brock and Heyman. Heyman finally slaps Lesnar for not destroying Big Show after the match or for shaking Big Show's hand after their match, and *BOOM* Lesnar beats Heyman's ass and the crowd is going nuts.
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:27 AM   #37
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Angle and Eddie were the face of SmackDown! along with Brock for a good chunk of time when the brand split actually was a complete split.
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:59 AM   #38
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Quote:
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It's not that. Bret is my all time favourite. Just, Owen was great as well, some people genuinely think he was better than Bret and in some ways he was... from what I've gathered, is if Owen took wrestling half as serious as Bret, he would have been the man... Bret would probably back that himself. I mean he is an absolutely classic heel, and although chances were limited had potential as a great face. His death aside, Owen would have always been an internet darling regardless.

Eddie is Eddie, people worshiped him when he was alive. So pretty much what you're saying does not apply to either of the examples you brought up.

I also just don't like you.
From bits I've seen of Owen Hart, I've thought he was absolutely riveting as a personality and exciting in-ring presence. I've never actually been too big a fan of Bret's body of work (although I haven't really tracked much of it down), and while I respect that he was great, I can totally get why some people might have preferred Owen.
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:03 AM   #39
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Bret was pretty terrible. He was a top guy because everybody good was in WCW.
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:04 AM   #40
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Hold the fuck up. I've seen a huge portion of work from both Bret and Owen. I'm a HUGE Owen mark, but he was still no Bret.
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