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Old 09-29-2004, 08:04 PM   #1
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HBK is the greatest WWF/E Performer of all time
Discuss........and I'll rebut your pathetic attempts to disprove this statement.



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Old 09-29-2004, 08:07 PM   #2
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I've never watched many of his old matches, as I'm a fairly recent wrestling fan, but I was hyped for his return to the WWE in 2002, just because of his reputation. But as for the greatest performer, I'd say Hulk Hogan, Bret Hart, The Rock & Stone Cold Steve Austin score more points. Maybe even Triple H.
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Old 09-29-2004, 08:11 PM   #3
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woah.. your gonna put Triple H before HBK? wtf are you thinking.. just because HHH has held the World Title 9 times...that means nothing HBK is far greater then Triple, Austin and Rock... IMO
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Old 09-29-2004, 08:15 PM   #4
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I do agree.

He was fantastic with the Rockers.

He was a great performer in his prime.

He's one of the best of the RAW roster when he's not exactly in his prime.
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Old 09-29-2004, 08:18 PM   #5
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Hogan, Rock and Austin all pretty much sucked in the ring, So they are out of the question. although they were bigger draws, they weren't as good. Hogan, Rock and Austin to some extent are all as popular as they are due to the character they played.

Bret Hart, yeah sure he was great and did a lot for the company, he carried it somewhat. However if you look back over the years HBK has had a lot more Charisma, has had more classic matches. eg. HIAC 1, Mind Games against Mankind, vs Razor in the ladder match. and besides that giving kids in the front row a pair of glasses made him look pussy.

The only reason Bret is more popular with fans is that he played the No1 face in the company for so long. I'm not saying Bret was a bad worker in the ring or on the mic, he just wasn't as good as HBK.
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Old 09-29-2004, 08:18 PM   #6
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Well..........if he was such a great preformer, why did he suck big time as WWF Champion in the mid 90's?
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Old 09-29-2004, 08:19 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champion of Europa
I do agree.



He was fantastic with the Rockers.

He was a great performer in his prime.

He's one of the best of the RAW roster when he's not exactly in his prime.
Alas we have a believer. HBK rules all.
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Old 09-29-2004, 08:21 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06
I've never watched many of his old matches, as I'm a fairly recent wrestling fan, but I was hyped for his return to the WWE in 2002, just because of his reputation. But as for the greatest performer, I'd say Hulk Hogan, Bret Hart, The Rock & Stone Cold Steve Austin score more points. Maybe even Triple H.
HHH has been fucking the bosses daughter to long, any push he's recieved has come from that, he has no talent although pulls some great heel promo's out of the bag now and then.

Another to fall at the Demi-God like feet of HBK
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Old 09-29-2004, 08:21 PM   #9
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Well I agree, HBK is the best mix of Wrestling and Entertainment...
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Old 09-29-2004, 08:22 PM   #10
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JUST throwing that out there for you to argue cause I know he great, but he has had some flaws.
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Old 09-29-2004, 08:23 PM   #11
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Shawn Michaels is one of the greatest wrestlers of all time. In the ring and on the mic he was outstanding.

The only wrestlers that I think were better than HBK were The Rock and Stone Cold Steve Austin. Why? because they were both solid in the ring and especially on the mic and they drew the fans back into the WWF something that HBK failed to do when he was on top.
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Old 09-29-2004, 08:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
Well..........if he was such a great preformer, why did he suck big time as WWF Champion in the mid 90's?
He was to small to be the champ,

However if you look at the actual matches of this period you will see that they were very high quality, something you would come to expect from HBK. Thus still meaning he was the best performer. But yeah I'll give you that he did suck as the champ.
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Old 09-29-2004, 08:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John la Rock
Shawn Michaels is one of the greatest wrestlers of all time. In the ring and on the mic he was outstanding.

The only wrestlers that I think were better than HBK were The Rock and Stone Cold Steve Austin. Why? because they were both solid in the ring and especially on the mic and they drew the fans back into the WWF something that HBK failed to do when he was on top.
The thread is about performing sure Rock outshines anyone on the mic but his ring work has always been lacking, without the Rock Bottom and Peoples Elbow what do you have left except a ball of charisma?

Now imagine Austin without the stunner and the Lou Thesz Press,

Point made, get out of my thread.
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Old 09-29-2004, 08:28 PM   #14
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There is more to performing than just in ring skills...... moron
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Old 09-29-2004, 08:32 PM   #15
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There is more to performing than just in ring skills...... moron
But having them would be a big help.
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Old 09-29-2004, 08:51 PM   #16
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Austin and Rock were solid performers - they never went round botching up moves, and they wrestled in matches that drew and made viewers want to watch them more. HBK was made to look real strong between '96-'98 and yet he drew fuck all, whereas somebody like the Rock has barely had a lengthy title reign (apart from one 5 month reign they've always been reasonably short) and look at what he's done for the business.

Don't get me wrong, I do rate HBK and I really enjoy his matches, but there have been better performers in the business as a whole in comparison
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Old 09-29-2004, 08:56 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EcKo 03 ComPlEX
woah.. your gonna put Triple H before HBK? wtf are you thinking.. just because HHH has held the World Title 9 times...that means nothing HBK is far greater then Triple, Austin and Rock... IMO
Triple H is a great wrestling psychologist. He gains great heat, and like it or not, has kept the WWE afloat for a while. I don't remember too many "bad" Triple H matches. Sure he doesn't have as many classics, but for the period of time when he truly flourished, he's kept consistant with quality.
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Old 09-29-2004, 09:02 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirRoundSound
Hogan, Rock and Austin all pretty much sucked in the ring, So they are out of the question. although they were bigger draws, they weren't as good. Hogan, Rock and Austin to some extent are all as popular as they are due to the character they played.

Bret Hart, yeah sure he was great and did a lot for the company, he carried it somewhat. However if you look back over the years HBK has had a lot more Charisma, has had more classic matches. eg. HIAC 1, Mind Games against Mankind, vs Razor in the ladder match. and besides that giving kids in the front row a pair of glasses made him look pussy.

The only reason Bret is more popular with fans is that he played the No1 face in the company for so long. I'm not saying Bret was a bad worker in the ring or on the mic, he just wasn't as good as HBK.
Stone Cold Steve Austin and The Rock don't suck in the ring. Austin tells great stories in his matches. He really gets the fans into it, and it seems as if the "WWE style" of main events has really evolved because of him. When a promotion revolves around your style, you know you're a great performer.

Hogan was never a technical wonder, but he was a much better performer than HBK, IMO. He drew. That makes him a better performer, since he got people that had never watched wrestling before and drew them into the product with his wrestling. HBK never did that.

I love HBK as much as the next time, but best performer, nah. I don't think there ever will be an official "best performer", but if there was, I doubt it would be HBK. He's a great wrestler, he brings entertainment, and he loves the business, but there's that lack of drawing that guys like Austin, Rock and Hogan have. Triple H argueably has that ability to carry the company on his shoulders as well, and he trumps Michaels in that exchange. Kane's worked well with what he has, too. He puts 100% into his matches, and has been in some memerable stuff. There are so many candidates, I think there will always be room for discussion.
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Old 09-29-2004, 09:04 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirRoundSound
The thread is about performing sure Rock outshines anyone on the mic but his ring work has always been lacking, without the Rock Bottom and Peoples Elbow what do you have left except a ball of charisma?

Now imagine Austin without the stunner and the Lou Thesz Press,

Point made, get out of my thread.
I'd have to disagree there. Without the Stunner or the Lou Thesz Press, Austin would still have his style. That's what has really made the WWE what it's become today. The roughneck beat down style, and the quick brawl to the outside. Austin's never relied on his moveset, but he relies very much on his wrestling style, much like the WWE in the 1998-2002 era.
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Old 09-29-2004, 09:08 PM   #20
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This is a great thread, SirRoundSound. Maybe there should be more installments of these?
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Old 09-29-2004, 09:15 PM   #21
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Not only is HBK the best in performer ever hes the best champion ever. I saw him live at mind games vs Mankind one of the best wrestling matches ever. He beat everyone in one great match after another
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Old 09-29-2004, 09:15 PM   #22
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possibly
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Old 09-29-2004, 09:19 PM   #23
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No arguing he is the best
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Old 09-29-2004, 09:24 PM   #24
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Being a great performer doesn't give involve being a great in ring worker. Being a performer means being able to draw the fans into matches and most of all being able to connect with them. As a result, I would rank Hogan, Rock, Flair, Foley and Austin all well ahead of HBK. If we are just talking about bell to bell "wrestler" I would rank Benoit, Angle, Eddie and Bret above HBK. HBK is an awesome talent, one of the best of all time, but the best? Nah.
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Old 09-29-2004, 09:25 PM   #25
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He's not my favorite character, but then again, he has no gimmick. ANd for a guy w/o a gimmick to be as outstanding as HBK, well...mad props! Besides, anyone who bleeds in every ppv match ( and most of the weeklies) has GOT to be deserving enough to be #1.
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Old 09-29-2004, 09:28 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afterlife
He's not my favorite character, but then again, he has no gimmick. ANd for a guy w/o a gimmick to be as outstanding as HBK, well...mad props! Besides, anyone who bleeds in every ppv match ( and most of the weeklies) has GOT to be deserving enough to be #1.

The heart break kid has no gimmick? The showstoppen boy toy has no gimmick?
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Old 09-29-2004, 09:32 PM   #27
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I don't care what you say. He has no gimmick. He's just Shawn Micheals.
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Old 09-29-2004, 09:34 PM   #28
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sammy sam sam sam, he has a gimmick..remember the Heartbreak hotel?
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Old 09-29-2004, 09:36 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afterlife
He's not my favorite character, but then again, he has no gimmick. ANd for a guy w/o a gimmick to be as outstanding as HBK, well...mad props! Besides, anyone who bleeds in every ppv match ( and most of the weeklies) has GOT to be deserving enough to be #1.
WOW
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Old 09-29-2004, 09:39 PM   #30
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Quote:
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I don't care what you say. He has no gimmick. He's just Shawn Micheals.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Just called me to argue his point
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Old 09-29-2004, 09:41 PM   #31
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Wow what? And just because he has a nickname doesn't mean he has a gimmick. "Hurricane Helms" was just a nickname. But when he became "The Hurricane", THAT was a gimmick. HBK has a nickname. Evolution is a bunch of guys that run together, but it's not a gimmick. Just a name. I'm not taking anything away from Michaels. He's still great. I'm just pointing out that he doesn't have a gimmick. So :P
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Old 09-29-2004, 09:51 PM   #32
Loose Cannon
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Dude, until you know what the hell you are talking about, don't reply. I'm pretty sure about everyone on this board will disagree with your point there. "Heartbreak kid" was a gimmick. Enough Said.
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Old 09-29-2004, 09:51 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afterlife
I don't care what you say. He has no gimmick. He's just Shawn Micheals.
What bout I'm not your boytoy i'm just your sexyboy. Thats a gimmick isn't it?
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Old 09-29-2004, 10:24 PM   #34
John la Rock
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The Heartbreak Kid was definetly a gimmick
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Old 09-29-2004, 10:31 PM   #35
Shaggy
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I would have to agree that HBK is a great entertainer in the ring. I really havnt been disapointed that much with him since his return. He has put some good wrestling back on WWE TV and I thank him for that.

Flair is still one of the best in my book but in his old age today he cant pull off some of the stuff he did in the past. Im sure when HBK gets that age that he will limit him self down also. In my eyes Flair and HBK are the best in ring performers.
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Old 09-29-2004, 11:03 PM   #36
CosaNostra
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For HBK to be "stripped" of a title because he "lost his smile" rather than do a job properly, he can go kiss Mae Young's wrinkled prune ass.

However, with that being said, he IS one hell of a preformer, easily top 5 in my books.
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Old 09-29-2004, 11:31 PM   #37
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You're probably right that he is one, if not the, greatest performers in the WWE today. Not my no.1 favorite (that's still Taker), but he's pretty close.
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Old 09-30-2004, 12:18 AM   #38
FakeLaser
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Nobody can convince me that anyone is better than Bret Hart. It's just a fact of life.
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Old 09-30-2004, 12:22 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FakeRazor
Nobody can convince me that anyone is better than Bret Hart. It's just a fact of life.
I gotta agree with that, and even after Hart, I can think of at least 5 people who were better performer in WWE for the duration of their career.
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Old 09-30-2004, 01:04 AM   #40
Mayo
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I would list the following above HBK: Angle, Rock, Austin

Edit: Hart also, how could I forget
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