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Old 06-27-2005, 08:28 PM   #1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Destroyer
Loads of them are either mutants, or have been mutated by something.
Shut it Highlander.
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Old 06-28-2005, 12:25 AM   #2
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The real difference between Marvel and DC?
I dunno guys, i suppose this has been kinda bugging me ever since i started reading comics, but why is it that most to all Marvel superheroes are mutants and go by their real name? like everyone in the comic book world knows that Jean Grey is well.. Jean grey, and Cyclops is scott summers, even though they wear costumes and such.

Why is it that all of Marvel is mutants and all of DC have to do mainly with space or some other kind of alien beings? and how come all of them dont hide their alter egos well? i mean what the fuck, Superman puts on glasses and a suit and combs his hair over and no on notices? i mean is it for comedy factor or what?

but yeah, i just needed to get the jist of that off my chest, its been bugging me
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Old 06-28-2005, 12:32 AM   #3
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Marvel, everybody is mutants.

DC, everybody is an alien, a rich boy, or has been caught in some science experiment.
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Old 06-28-2005, 12:33 AM   #4
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Heard some comedian talking about that Superman thing. If Superman is supposed to be this super powerful amazing guy, why would you see Clark Kent at work with his glasses on at the newspaper thing and say "hey, if he wasn't wearing glasses, and had a cape and some spandex, he would look just like Superman".

I dunno, it was something like that if you know what I'm saying.
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Old 06-28-2005, 12:38 AM   #5
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also are there any superhero's you'd think to be gay? like flaming homosexual gay? not even on purpous...

Beast gets my vote, from the X-Men cartoon version, wearing a speedo and spouting off poetry and random logic Equals one big gay blue monkey
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Old 06-28-2005, 12:50 AM   #6
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In the last few years their has been gay X-Men characters.

Plus not all Marvel characters are mutants really, just the more well known ones.
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Old 06-28-2005, 01:06 AM   #7
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Right, 'cause poetry is sooo gay. I mean, c'mon, take a look at Walt Whitman. Err, umm, I mean, uhh, Edna St. Vincent Millay. No, wait, umm...Sappho?

Okay, maybe you have a point there.

Anyway, one of the most iconoclastic elements of Watchmen (which can practically be read as a treastise on the superhero genre) was the "outing" of various superheroes in that universe. Not a major plot point, but another clever take on the traditional superheroic image.
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Old 06-28-2005, 01:57 AM   #8
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Even though she's not a superhero, Maggie Sawyer from the Superman comics is a lesbian.
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Old 06-28-2005, 04:33 AM   #9
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The real difference?

Marvel > DC
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Old 06-28-2005, 07:50 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Electric
In the last few years their has been gay X-Men characters.

Plus not all Marvel characters are mutants really, just the more well known ones.
Loads of them are either mutants, or have been mutated by something.
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Old 06-28-2005, 08:12 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el fregadero
Heard some comedian talking about that Superman thing. If Superman is supposed to be this super powerful amazing guy, why would you see Clark Kent at work with his glasses on at the newspaper thing and say "hey, if he wasn't wearing glasses, and had a cape and some spandex, he would look just like Superman".

I dunno, it was something like that if you know what I'm saying.
Because it's not just on looks, it's in his mannerisms as well.
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Old 06-28-2005, 10:37 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el fregadero
Heard some comedian talking about that Superman thing. If Superman is supposed to be this super powerful amazing guy, why would you see Clark Kent at work with his glasses on at the newspaper thing and say "hey, if he wasn't wearing glasses, and had a cape and some spandex, he would look just like Superman".

I dunno, it was something like that if you know what I'm saying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchanthropic
It's the same thing with Superman and his facade as Clark Kent - a lot of people have said to me over time "his secret disguise is a pair of GLASSES. As if people wouldn't realise it was him". This isn't so - for it ISN'T just the glasses, as often suggested. It's the fact that Clark is slovenly (in some cases, he has been shown as quite fat and out of shape - other times he just appears unkempt), quiet, mild-mannered, a fence-sitter and a lover of all things sugar-n-spice. When looking at a man FUELED BY THE EARTH'S SUN, built like a brick shithouse, and who has the ability to fly, see through solid objects, lift ridiculous amounts of weight and countless other amazing abilities, you're not gonna say, "heeeeeeeeeey... if he was wearing glasses...y'know...he'd look a lot like old Clarky. Must be the same guy!"
We've been through this.
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Old 06-28-2005, 11:23 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gouda
Marvel, everybody is mutants.

DC, everybody is an alien, a rich boy, or has been caught in some science experiment.
Exceptions to your Marvel rule (including, but not limited to): The Incredible Hulk; The Punisher; Daredevil; Elektra; Spider-Man; Iron Man; Captain America; Fantastic Four; Thor; Blade; Ghost Rider; Captain Britain; Captain Marvel; Hawkeye [RIP]; and Power Man/Luke Cage.

Exceptions to your DC rule (including, but not limited to): Hawkman; Hawkgirl; Hal Jordan, John Stewart and Kyle Rayner (Green Lanterns); Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake and Stephanie Brown (Robins); Aquaman; Aqualad; Apache Chief; Captain Marvel; Arsenal; Wonder Woman; Barbara Gordon and Cassandra Cain (Batgirls); Booster Gold; the Wizard Shazam; Raven; John Constantine; Black Canary; Elongated Man; The Spectre; Adam Strange; Steel (John Irons); and Zatanna.

Personally, I think the main difference between the two labels is how they tell their stories. Recently, Marvel (and specifically Brian Michael Bendis) has been focusing very much on the people behind the masks and their struggles, as opposed to actual superhero adventure. This has been apparent in the Disassembled arcs, and especially in Bendis' recent Daredevil run. Marvel has been trying (too hard, some might argue) to make their characters more 'human'. DC has followed suit with all their stuff leading up to Infinite Crisis, but it's still mainly about the actual heroes.

I dunno. Just a thought.
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Old 06-28-2005, 11:29 AM   #14
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I love Mitch.
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Old 06-28-2005, 11:30 AM   #15
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Yeah with the new Ultimate's series, Marvel has tried to make them more human.
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Old 06-28-2005, 11:44 AM   #16
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Yeah. In some cases it's been good. Like the Disassembled series was hell good reading, and the Punisher's recent arc, Up is Down and Black is White has been awesome. But honestly, Bendis made me want to kill him when he did Daredevil. Long monologues by a blind man staring at a wall does not = ratings.

Hopefully DC don't screw up with their All-Star line. I have a good feeling though. All-Star Batman and Robin, the Boy Wonder is being done by Frank Miller and Jim Lee, so it's gonna be very hard for them to screw that up.
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Old 06-28-2005, 11:51 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SukkaChump
I dunno guys, i suppose this has been kinda bugging me ever since i started reading comics, but why is it that most to all Marvel superheroes are mutants and go by their real name? like everyone in the comic book world knows that Jean Grey is well.. Jean grey, and Cyclops is scott summers, even though they wear costumes and such.

Why is it that all of Marvel is mutants and all of DC have to do mainly with space or some other kind of alien beings? and how come all of them dont hide their alter egos well? i mean what the fuck, Superman puts on glasses and a suit and combs his hair over and no on notices? i mean is it for comedy factor or what?

but yeah, i just needed to get the jist of that off my chest, its been bugging me
Okay, what. You don't even know what you are talking about, here. I would say (talking DC) that commissioning Zatanna to WIPE THE MINDS OF VILLAINS WHO FIND OUT THEIR IDENTITIES is taking pretty decent steps to hide their alter egos, y'know? Even then, Superman is only one example, and a poor one at that. Everyone else seems to do alright at masking who they are, with the exception of Ralph Dibney, and look where that got him.
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Old 06-28-2005, 11:58 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SukkaChump
also are there any superhero's you'd think to be gay? like flaming homosexual gay? not even on purpous...

Beast gets my vote, from the X-Men cartoon version, wearing a speedo and spouting off poetry and random logic Equals one big gay blue monkey

Beast has a wife, in some incarnations, so there goes that theory.

I know that Black Cat, Mystique, Frostbite, Mephisto and Paradox are all bisexuals.
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Old 06-28-2005, 12:18 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchanthropic
Exceptions to your DC rule (including, but not limited to): Hawkman; Hawkgirl;
To be fair that only applies to the very first incarnation. After the 50s or so they has been 'officially' aliens.
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Old 06-28-2005, 01:26 PM   #20
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Northstar is openly gay too.
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Old 06-28-2005, 01:50 PM   #21
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the biggest difference between Marvel and DC is twofold:

1) Power. DC heroes tend to be more powerful. There are few mainstream Marvel characters as powerful as Green Lantern, for example, and almost none (outside of elder gods and so forth) as powerful as Superman.
2) Power source. Marvel has fewer sources of super power, and more central origins for that power. Few people are born with powers, most gaining them from artifacts (quantum bands), accidents (being bitten by a spider, gamma rays) or alterations (super soldier serum). Those that are born with super powers tend to be either mutants (X-Men) or non-humans (Namor, Skrulls). DC has characters whose powers come from similar sources such as wizards (Captain Marvel), lab accidents (The Flash), alien rings (Green Lantern), inventions (starman), being from another race (aquaman), but a much larger number of characters simply have their powers because they have their powers, or because of badly explained origins like "a strange meteor fell by my house". Also, more people are simply born superheroes. In short, there seems to be a lot more "super-ness" just floating around the DC universe.
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Old 06-28-2005, 01:52 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchanthropic
Okay, what. You don't even know what you are talking about, here. I would say (talking DC) that commissioning Zatanna to WIPE THE MINDS OF VILLAINS WHO FIND OUT THEIR IDENTITIES is taking pretty decent steps to hide their alter egos, y'know? Even then, Superman is only one example, and a poor one at that. Everyone else seems to do alright at masking who they are, with the exception of Ralph Dibney, and look where that got him.
Barry Allen was "out" as a superhero by the end as well.

And it was pretty obvious to all concerned that Ollie Queen was Green Arrow. There's an excellent moment in Quiver where he's pretending just to be "green arrow's buddy" and gets called on it by some random kid.
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Old 06-28-2005, 02:18 PM   #23
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*shrug* DC seems to be boring to me- minus Hellblazer, Swamp Thing, and Batman. They just seem to rehash several stories over, the heroes are almost cartoonish in a sense (Superman is pretty much indestructible, you know he's going to win), or they're just... Useless (I don't think I really have to explain myself with the likes of Aquaman).

Marvel just seems to have more character in their characters... I dunno, not a comic fanatic though...
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Old 06-28-2005, 03:15 PM   #24
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Fryza, have you read "Identity Crisis"? It was a big help for me in making DC characters less one-dimensional.

Also, if you enjoyed Hellblazer and Swamp thing, you really need to read The Sandman. I'm guessing you have.
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Old 06-28-2005, 03:41 PM   #25
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From what I've read from the Sandman series, it is awesome.

Also add to Hitman to another great DC series and I'm not 100% certain whether it's DC but the Preacher series too. Vertigo is a part of DC isn't it?
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Old 06-28-2005, 04:30 PM   #26
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Yeah Vertigo is a DC imprint

The thing I find with Superman is most of the time I agree with Fryza, on the surface he's terribly boring, indestructible, etc etc. It depends how he's written though, and from what perspective. Superman: Red Son and the current Lex Luthor: Man of Steel are awesome, awesome stories.
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Old 06-28-2005, 06:53 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Electric
From what I've read from the Sandman series, it is awesome.

Also add to Hitman to another great DC series and I'm not 100% certain whether it's DC but the Preacher series too. Vertigo is a part of DC isn't it?
Hitman and Preacher are awesome, mainly because Garth Ennis is the man.

Good comics that Vertigo and Wildstorm (DC imprints) publishe/published

All of the America's Best Comics line (Promethea, Top Ten, Tom Strong, League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Tomorrow Stories. All great Alan Moore comics)
Planetary (huge out-of-control superhero insanity with a wonderful edge. Maybe the best thing Warren Ellis has ever done)
Transmetropolitan (fuck it, THIS is the best thing Warren Ellis has ever done. If only for the line "I killed Santa Claus! I killed Santa Claus with my cock!")
The Authority
Y: The Last Man (post-apocalyptic saga in a world where all the men have died apart from Yorrick Brown. Utterly fucking phenomenal.)
We3
Seaguy
The Invisibles (holy shit. The conspiracy book to end all conspiracy books. Grant Morrison's finest hour)
V For Vendetta

And if you want to know why some people think the DC Universe can do no wrong, read:

Batman: The Killing Joke
Arkham Asylum
Superman: Red Son (holy fuck. Best Elseworlds title ever)
Kingdom Come
The Dark Knight Returns
Batman: Year One

god, I love comics
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Old 06-28-2005, 06:55 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Monday Morning
Yeah Vertigo is a DC imprint

The thing I find with Superman is most of the time I agree with Fryza, on the surface he's terribly boring, indestructible, etc etc. It depends how he's written though, and from what perspective. Superman: Red Son and the current Lex Luthor: Man of Steel are awesome, awesome stories.
Quoted for truth.

EVERYONE IN THE WORLD needs to read Red Son.

What if Superman's rocket had landed in the plains of Russia in the 1930s instead of landing in Kansas?

Best superman story ever written.
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Old 06-28-2005, 07:11 PM   #29
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What about Lobo? He is the greatest comic book character of all time.
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Old 06-28-2005, 07:12 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamuella
And if you want to know why some people think the DC Universe can do no wrong, read:

Batman: The Killing Joke
Arkham Asylum
Superman: Red Son (holy fuck. Best Elseworlds title ever)
Kingdom Come
The Dark Knight Returns
Batman: Year One

god, I love comics
For actual regular series I strongly recommend Starman. Though it's over by now. I'm currently reading it for the first time and it's awesome. I plan on picking up the graphic novels.

A series that is still going that is good is JSA.

Though, I just love all things Golden Age, and stuff that acknowledges history and whatever.

DC > Marvel in my mind.

The Marvel universe just doesn't appeal to me..... and they have like... how many of them?
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Old 06-28-2005, 07:16 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamuella
Fryza, have you read "Identity Crisis"? It was a big help for me in making DC characters less one-dimensional.

Also, if you enjoyed Hellblazer and Swamp thing, you really need to read The Sandman. I'm guessing you have.
Naw, I'm not really a fan of DC anyway, I like them being one-dimensional, lets me make fun of them easier.

I have read A LOT about Sandman, and how good it's supposed to be, but never actually read it. I have been meaning to check it out, but have never seen it around.
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Old 06-28-2005, 07:18 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gouda
For actual regular series I strongly recommend Starman. Though it's over by now. I'm currently reading it for the first time and it's awesome. I plan on picking up the graphic novels.

A series that is still going that is good is JSA.

Though, I just love all things Golden Age, and stuff that acknowledges history and whatever.

DC > Marvel in my mind.

The Marvel universe just doesn't appeal to me..... and they have like... how many of them?
Starman is excellent. JSA is also fantastic. Alan Scott is the coolest Green Lantern ever. Fuck Hal Jordan.
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Old 06-28-2005, 08:29 PM   #33
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There are aspects of both Marvel and DC that I like.

Marvel carries with it the dynamic Jack Kirby designs from the 60's and still has remnants of that weird Stan Lee dialogue. Marvel, to me, has alway been the home of the better comic book artists (especially before all those guys jumped ship to Image), but with pencillers switching sides frequently since the late 90's, I know that isn't true anymore.

DC has the longstanding legacy, though that was changed somewhat since the "Crisis on Infinite Earths." I was collecting comics in the mid-to-late 90's, and I wasn't particularly a fan of the stories going on there. Sandman was great stuff, but the rest of the Vertigo line-up never met the hype.

Favorites (no particular order): Jim Lee's run on the X-Men, The "X-Cutioner's Song" arc, Rob Liefeld's run on X-Force, Frank Miller's "Man without Fear" (Daredevil), the Reign of the Supermen arc, the Sandman series, The Dark Knight Returns, all the Teen Titans comics from the Wolfman/Perez era, and the whole frikkin' Impulse series.
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Old 06-28-2005, 08:49 PM   #34
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oh god. Rob Liefeld.

Rob frigging Lolfeld.

one of the few artists who I seek out work by BECAUSE it's so bad.

such as this masterpiece:



holy christ, what's happened to their spines?

and the best picture ever:
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Old 06-28-2005, 08:57 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchanthropic
We've been through this.
lol

I don't read comics, btw. So my only addition to the thread had already been added.
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Old 06-28-2005, 09:20 PM   #36
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On the subject of the Superman/Clark Kent/glasses thing, there's been a few occasions when Superman has had Bruce Wayne dress up as the Man Of Steel to fool Metropolis into thinking Clark Kent and Superman are different people.
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Old 06-28-2005, 09:40 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamuella
oh god. Rob Liefeld.

Rob frigging Lolfeld.

one of the few artists who I seek out work by BECAUSE it's so bad.

such as this masterpiece:



holy christ, what's happened to their spines?

and the best picture ever:
Yeah, pretty much the same reason I look for Liefeld stuff, too. Almost like caricatures.

That Cap picture is awesome. Notice how far his legs extend from the centerline of his neck.
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Old 06-28-2005, 09:47 PM   #38
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A guy I know on another forum uses this as his avatar:
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Old 06-28-2005, 10:42 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Monday Morning
To be fair that only applies to the very first incarnation. After the 50s or so they has been 'officially' aliens.
No, they were only aliens in the Silver-age run of Hawkman's life in DC, when he was a Thanagarian police officer called Katar-Hol. In current continuity, Hawkman and Hawkgirl are re-incarnations of Egyptian royalty Khufu and Chay-Ara respectively, like they were originally - hence their predicament in the current Rann/Thanagar war. Only Hawkwoman is an actual Thanagarian alien.

-edit-
Actually, to be fair, Hawkgirl is now Chay-Ara's/Shiera's grandniece, but even then, she's still human.
Last edited by mitchables; 06-28-2005 at 10:58 PM.
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Old 06-28-2005, 10:49 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamuella
Barry Allen was "out" as a superhero by the end as well.

And it was pretty obvious to all concerned that Ollie Queen was Green Arrow. There's an excellent moment in Quiver where he's pretending just to be "green arrow's buddy" and gets called on it by some random kid.
Oh yeah, forgot about Barry.
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