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Old 08-15-2005, 03:51 PM   #1
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So Softer Wrestling has really made pro wrestlers safer, eh?
Inspired by the "Christian Injured" Topics, I can't help but think (yet again) about how we've watched the WWE get watered down more and more in what's normally called a gesture of "Safety."

However, it hasn't seemed to have had a major impact on the safety of wrestling, only the entertainment value of certain wrestlers. While safety should ALWAYS be a concern in a form of entertainment as risky as wrestling, the step seems needless.

As a result, the sloppy, the lazy, and the boring have benefitted. Not to call up a conspiracy theory, but it seems odd that this benefits the bland, by making the extraordinary ordinary.

So what do we think? Are wrestlers safer these days?

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Old 08-15-2005, 04:20 PM   #2
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No matter what wrestling will always have dangers, unless of course there in padding from head to toe wrestling on a feather bed...
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Old 08-15-2005, 04:29 PM   #3
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What I find amusing is that they preach safety for some and let others who seem to have more pull politically pull out the odd slam on steel steps and Tombstone piledriver.

Perhaps the risky moves should be reserved for PPVs, but both Smackdown and RAW could really use a breakout star and many of them who do have potential need to be able to use high-risk shit to get over.
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Old 08-15-2005, 04:35 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gooch
What I find amusing is that they preach safety for some and let others who seem to have more pull politically pull out the odd slam on steel steps and Tombstone piledriver.

Perhaps the risky moves should be reserved for PPVs, but both Smackdown and RAW could really use a breakout star and many of them who do have potential need to be able to use high-risk shit to get over.
Yeah, I've noticed. Piledrivers are bad, unless you're the Undertaker, who's getting sloppy and is probably more dangerous than most.

Now, I don't think we need a bunch of huge "HOLY SHIT" Spots on TV, it's more the way they pussified the Walls of Jericho, or got rid of the Vertebreaker, banning move after move. I mean, honestly, even the finishers are generic these days in most cases. Very few finishers are truly unique within the WWE, because the moves are so limited that we're down to chokeslams, superkicks, and submission moves.
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Old 08-15-2005, 04:37 PM   #5
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Shit when Kane does his Tombstone you can see that there's a good foot between the floor and there head.
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Old 08-15-2005, 04:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EcKo 03 ComPlEX
No matter what wrestling will always have dangers, unless of course there in padding from head to toe wrestling on a feather bed...
Yes. There will always be dangers, but the question isn't about that. The question is about the steps the WWE have taken to reduce the dangers, whether they're reasonable or effective. I do not blame them for trying to make wrestlers safer (Weeding out unnecessary danger), but I wonder if that was their prime concern, or whether it was an excuse, and genuine or not, whether it was well thought.
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Old 08-15-2005, 04:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EcKo 03 ComPlEX
Shit when Kane does his Tombstone you can see that there's a good foot between the floor and there head.
I'm surprised it's not more. Kane is reckless.
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Old 08-15-2005, 04:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Now, I don't think we need a bunch of huge "HOLY SHIT" Spots on TV, it's more the way they pussified the Walls of Jericho, or got rid of the Vertebreaker, banning move after move. I mean, honestly, even the finishers are generic these days in most cases. Very few finishers are truly unique within the WWE, because the moves are so limited that we're down to chokeslams, superkicks, and submission moves.
Softer finishers aren't bad if the fans care about you. That's what makes this a catch 22 for many of the wrestlers. The true Walls and the Vertebreaker were amazing. I'm surprised Christian is still allowed to do his Unprettier.
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Old 08-15-2005, 04:57 PM   #9
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I don't know if they're safer. To me the moves themselves look the same, so in my eyes I'm watching the same moves just preformed at a much slower pace and a lot less frequently. I remember watching a bonus match on the Monday Night Wars DVD that a friend had loaned me recently (the match was HBK & Austin vs. Owen Hart & British Bulldog) and thinking, "Holy shit!!! Look at them go!" The match didn't contain anything that would be considered a "holy shit" spot but the match was so fast paced and so fluid that I was amazed. There was no rest holds and no posing for the crowd.... It was a breath of fresh air compared to the stale, stagnant, pieces of crap matches that we our forced to watch now.
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Old 08-15-2005, 05:28 PM   #10
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Wrestlers are no safer now than they were before they banned their moves. Sure, the moves aren't going to be preformed, but there are a lot of non-banned moves that are just as risky as the Piledriver or Vertebreaker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Now, I don't think we need a bunch of huge "HOLY SHIT" Spots on TV, it's more the way they pussified the Walls of Jericho, or got rid of the Vertebreaker, banning move after move.
What's their excuse for banning the real Walls? There's hardly any danger in it unless they're going to do a spot where the Walls is broken or they're much smaller than Jericho (neck thing there).

What pisses me off the most is that Shawn Michaels used the move a few months ago on RAW. Hell, there's a PICTURE in Shawn's WWE.com profile of him doing it...

Basically, the only ones allowed to do the 'dangerous' moves are the ones who don't NEED them and are in high regard in the company, besides maybe The Undertaker, but as was stated, he's getting sloppy.
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Old 08-15-2005, 05:33 PM   #11
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It's like gas prices.

Sure, there are legit reasons to explain it, but really, it's just benefitting the hire ups by making them look good via the cheap way instead of having them work to make good. Meanwhile, the consumer gets crap.
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Old 08-15-2005, 06:43 PM   #12
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Talking about the unique moves, I think like one third of the roster uses the Flatliner/Downward Spiral as finisher or just as a regular move. Hassan, Orlando Jordan, Undertaker, Edge and I remember seeing someone else doing it too just awhile ago. It's almost like a DDT.
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Old 08-15-2005, 06:52 PM   #13
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And the funny thing is, you guys still watch it.( had to do that KK, you say we complain too much but you started this thread and yet you still watch it,no offence but isn't that hypocritical of you?)

I havent watched WWE for 3 shows, which is quite good for me, and i don't think i've missed much.And this is one reason why.I'm sick of seeing the same boring tag team matches, the moves are always the same week in week out in every match it seems like, and the wrestlers really don't seem to give a shit.
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Old 08-15-2005, 07:19 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gooch
Softer finishers aren't bad if the fans care about you. That's what makes this a catch 22 for many of the wrestlers. The true Walls and the Vertebreaker were amazing. I'm surprised Christian is still allowed to do his Unprettier.
You have a point. The Rock Bottom is one of the biggest moves in the WWE, and also one of the safest (Hard to botch dropping someone to the mat...)
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Old 08-15-2005, 07:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126
What's their excuse for banning the real Walls? There's hardly any danger in it unless they're going to do a spot where the Walls is broken or they're much smaller than Jericho (neck thing there).
Jericho upon entering the WWE was regarded as too "stiff," like many former WCW and ECW wrestlers. People were injured by the likes of him, less because they were sloppy, and more because neither side was prepared for the difference between pattycake and wrestling.

IIRC, Chris Jericho was one of the folks told to tone it down when he went into a program with Triple H, which kind of supports the "benefits the higher ups" statement.

Granted, main eventers don't need to get over as much on their movesets, but for a man whose appeal was more than just mic skills, to have his moveset yanked out from under him is going to affect his fanbase. I mean, the Rock was never a luchadore, so his main event 5 moveset deal was no problem. Austin showed he had technical chops against benoit, but he really only needed a few moves and rarely used more. Jericho's a different animal, and it seems like he was watered down to make the main eventers safe, because they weren't capable of taking more than the msot simplistic moves.

Note many wrestlers are capable of working stiff without injury: Because they are safe professionals. Some WWE stars are still pretty stiff. This isn't a bad thing, as long as nobody's hurt.
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Old 08-15-2005, 07:30 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sickboy
Talking about the unique moves, I think like one third of the roster uses the Flatliner/Downward Spiral as finisher or just as a regular move. Hassan, Orlando Jordan, Undertaker, Edge and I remember seeing someone else doing it too just awhile ago. It's almost like a DDT.
Yeah, it was also Scott Steiner's move too when he finally realized that he could not successfully perform his old finisher.
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Old 08-15-2005, 07:30 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TL
And the funny thing is, you guys still watch it.( had to do that KK, you say we complain too much but you started this thread and yet you still watch it,no offence but isn't that hypocritical of you?)
Hmmm...

So there is no difference between discussing an aspect of the product and hating the product?

You've seen the specific threads I've come down upon, those who complained how horrible the WWE is, how shit the programs are. How could you in any semblence of reasonable intellect compare the two?

(Or in short, are you stupid, man? This isn't complaining. This isn't OMFG WRESTLING SUCKS NOW THAT THE WRESTERS ARENT STIFF NEMORE!!!1)
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Old 08-15-2005, 07:35 PM   #18
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At the end of your post KK you said:


As a result, the sloppy, the lazy, and the boring have benefitted. Not to call up a conspiracy theory, but it seems odd that this benefits the bland, by making the extraordinary ordinary.

So you like putting up with watching boring, lazy&sloppy wrestling then do you?I would say that's complaining.

But yeah go and attack me again by calling me stupid, that's what people usually do when they've been caught out.
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Old 08-15-2005, 07:53 PM   #19
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Why do all the good, thought provoking threads (and even the not so thought provoking threads) always end with some idiot bitching at KK for attacking him on a internet forum?
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Old 08-15-2005, 08:07 PM   #20
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I'm just using Kk's own argument against him and the fact is he had to resort to attacking me. The reason why its so common is because thats what he does. Even though i said 'no offence' and asked a simple question, he took offence to it, and it's pretty much what i expected from him, because that is what he does.

I don't see how this thread is any different from the other ones KK was complaining about.Btw, why is it when someone argues with KK someone else always has to jump in and defend him?
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Old 08-15-2005, 08:36 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TL
I'm just using Kk's own argument against him and the fact is he had to resort to attacking me.
You're not using my own argument against me though.

That's the problem.
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Old 08-15-2005, 08:38 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TL
I don't see how this thread is any different from the other ones KK was complaining about.Btw, why is it when someone argues with KK someone else always has to jump in and defend him?
Because everyone's out to get you. It's a conspiracy. Get your tinfoil hat out, we're coming to get you.

Or it could be, that for all your complaints, you look like the idiot.

Ok, anyway, I'm done with you. You've had your turn as n00b of the week, and since you can't even "use my own argument against me," I'd say you're done.
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Old 08-15-2005, 08:40 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
You're not using my own argument against me though.

That's the problem.

Er yes i am. Your complaining about the stuff your watching, which is what you accused us of doing. I didn't see anything wrong with the threads you complained about, just like you don't see anything wrong with this thread i'm complaining about.

It's just the same except this time you're the one making the thread.
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Old 08-15-2005, 08:44 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Because everyone's out to get you. It's a conspiracy. Get your tinfoil hat out, we're coming to get you.

Or it could be, that for all your complaints, you look like the idiot.

Ok, anyway, I'm done with you. You've had your turn as n00b of the week, and since you can't even "use my own argument against me," I'd say you're done.

Where did i say it was a conspiracy?My basic point was that you were complaining about the wrestling being boring because of the restrictions to wrestlers not being able to use moves, yet you still continue to watch it. You disguised it well by saying 'are wrestlers safer these days' but the bottom line is you threw in a complaint about it being boring, yet you still watch it.
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Old 08-15-2005, 11:08 PM   #25
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Does it even need to be stated that I still. Enjoy. The Product?

Just curious.
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