TPWW Forums  

Go Back   TPWW Forums > w r e s t l i n g > wrestling forum
Reload this Page Helms? Chavo? Who's to blame?
Register Members List Mark Forums Read

Reply
Page 1 of 2 1 2
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-24-2007, 12:01 AM   #1
Marc the Smark
 
Posts: 2,064
Marc the Smark has more than 1,000 rep points (1,000+)Marc the Smark has more than 1,000 rep points (1,000+)
Helms? Chavo? Who's to blame?
This is kind of interesing. 6 years ago last month, WCW closed. At that time, the two guys who were feuding for the Cruiserweight title were "Sugar" Shane Helms and Chavo Guerrero. Now, 6 years later, the same two guys are fighting over the same title. In 6 years, the WWE has not advanced either guy's career. It's sad, cause their careers are just wasting away without any progress. They tried giving Chavo high profile fueds with Benoit, Eddie and Rey, but he just doesn't have the presence to successfully break out of the CW division like Rey did. Helms went over the Rock twice but really couldn't take it to the next level. So, my question, do you think Helms and Chavo have been given a "fair shake" in the WWE? Is their lack of a big push their own fault, or would you blame it on someone else? Feel free to explain.
Last edited by Marc the Smark; 03-24-2007 at 12:40 AM.
Marc the Smark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 01:04 AM   #2
HeartBreakMan2k
Franchise of TPWW
 
HeartBreakMan2k's Avatar
 
Posts: 15,458
HeartBreakMan2k puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)HeartBreakMan2k puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)HeartBreakMan2k puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)HeartBreakMan2k puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)HeartBreakMan2k puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)HeartBreakMan2k puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)HeartBreakMan2k puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)HeartBreakMan2k puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)HeartBreakMan2k puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)
I don't think Chavo has "it", Helms does but hasn't been givin a real credible run at something higher than cruiser.
HeartBreakMan2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 01:06 AM   #3
KingofOldSchool
...IN HD!!!!
 
KingofOldSchool's Avatar
 
Posts: 23,327
KingofOldSchool has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)KingofOldSchool has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)KingofOldSchool has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)KingofOldSchool has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)KingofOldSchool has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)KingofOldSchool has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)KingofOldSchool has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)KingofOldSchool has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)KingofOldSchool has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)KingofOldSchool has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)
Neither of them look like Bobby Lashley, so they are both to blame.
KingofOldSchool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 01:26 AM   #4
Jeritron
Get a poke on
 
Jeritron's Avatar
 
Posts: 35,234
Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Helms is a cruiserweight, therefore he wrestles in the cruiserweight. I agree he should be moved up to the US title picture but realistically how long can he hang there? Helms is in a good place considering the state of the business and where his career was more than a year ago. Theres not much room for upward growth, and though the cruiserweight division isn't the best road, him moving into the US title picture is nothing more than a dead end for him anyways. Then he gets jobbed back as a cruiserweight and his momentum and gimmick are stunted and he's simply another cruiserweight who makes it onto tv once every 2 months.
Let it be.
Jeritron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 01:50 AM   #5
Funky Fly
The Satanic Mechanic
 
Funky Fly's Avatar
 
Posts: 52,521
Funky Fly makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Funky Fly makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Funky Fly makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Funky Fly makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Funky Fly makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Funky Fly makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Funky Fly makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Funky Fly makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Funky Fly makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Funky Fly makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Funky Fly makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Funky Fly makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Funky Fly makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Helms needs to dip into the main event kool aid. Because whatever Cena and Lashley are drinking, it can only help him out.
Funky Fly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 02:10 AM   #6
Blitz
Angel Headed Hipster
 
Blitz's Avatar
 
Posts: 37,942
Blitz makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Blitz makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Blitz makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Blitz makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Blitz makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Blitz makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Blitz makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Blitz makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Blitz makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Blitz makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Blitz makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Blitz makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Blitz makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funky Fly
Helms needs to dip into the main event kool aid. Because whatever Cena and Lashley are drinking, it can only help him out.
Roid shakes.
Blitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 03:03 AM   #7
Reavant
Donkey Punch Elite
 
Reavant's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,910
Reavant has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Reavant has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Reavant has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Reavant has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Reavant has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Reavant has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Reavant has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Reavant has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Reavant has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Reavant has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Hot Scott
Helms went over the Rock twice but really couldn't take it to the next level.
HAHA he went over the rock when he was playing a damn superhero.... theres nowhere for him to go at that point
Reavant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 03:09 AM   #8
Mr. JL
 
Posts: 4,834
Mr. JL is good (20,000+)Mr. JL is good (20,000+)Mr. JL is good (20,000+)Mr. JL is good (20,000+)Mr. JL is good (20,000+)Mr. JL is good (20,000+)Mr. JL is good (20,000+)Mr. JL is good (20,000+)
It is a given, unless you are at least 235 pounds do not expect to get anywhere near a middle card title, let alone a Main Event title.
Mr. JL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 05:07 AM   #9
M-A-G
Higher. Further. Faster.
 
M-A-G's Avatar
 
Posts: 21,105
M-A-G makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)M-A-G makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)M-A-G makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)M-A-G makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)M-A-G makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)M-A-G makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)M-A-G makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)M-A-G makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)M-A-G makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)M-A-G makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)M-A-G makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)M-A-G makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)M-A-G makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Is that a bad thing?
M-A-G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 05:10 AM   #10
Rammsteinmad
TPWW's #3 Peep
 
Rammsteinmad's Avatar
 
Posts: 20,903
Rammsteinmad makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Rammsteinmad makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Rammsteinmad makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Rammsteinmad makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Rammsteinmad makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Rammsteinmad makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Rammsteinmad makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Rammsteinmad makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Rammsteinmad makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Rammsteinmad makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Rammsteinmad makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Rammsteinmad makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Rammsteinmad makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
I thought Chavo's push lately was cool, and was really hoping it would make him a main-eventer. It woulda helped if they let him beat Benoit at least once though.

Helms... well... he's not Batista or Lashley... so what can ya do?
Rammsteinmad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 05:12 AM   #11
M-A-G
Higher. Further. Faster.
 
M-A-G's Avatar
 
Posts: 21,105
M-A-G makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)M-A-G makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)M-A-G makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)M-A-G makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)M-A-G makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)M-A-G makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)M-A-G makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)M-A-G makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)M-A-G makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)M-A-G makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)M-A-G makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)M-A-G makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)M-A-G makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Forget size. He just sort of lacks that certain "it" that prevents him from being a major threat to main eventers. I know he's really good and all but I even had a tough time buying him as someone who could beat Benoit and that's cause everyone gets to beat Benoit.
M-A-G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 07:13 AM   #12
ttetf
 
Posts: 133
ttetf has more than 1,000 rep points (1,000+)ttetf has more than 1,000 rep points (1,000+)
Maybe if you put Helms in some kind of stable with bigger, main event guys it could give him different size opponents...although WWE isn't big on stables of more than 2 lately...
ttetf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 09:21 AM   #13
The MAC
VG + Q&A FORUM REPRESENT
 
The MAC's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,957
The MAC has a good deal of rep (10,000+)The MAC has a good deal of rep (10,000+)The MAC has a good deal of rep (10,000+)The MAC has a good deal of rep (10,000+)The MAC has a good deal of rep (10,000+)The MAC has a good deal of rep (10,000+)
they are the pinnacle of the CW Division.It is their place where they are perceived as credible. Look at Rey, he got pushed all the way to the top but no one would buy it.Chavo and Helms are in their right place.
The MAC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 09:43 AM   #14
Kane Knight
Ron Paul 4 EVA
 
Kane Knight's Avatar
 
Posts: 152,467
Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Let's recap the last main eventer who used to be a Cruiserweight!

"I'm a champion despite losing almost every single night! I'm a huge fucking jobber who doesn't deserve the title!"

That's beyond any Guerrero necrophilia.

They couldn't book a "successful" guy like Rey, what on earth could they do with the rest of the lot?

So let's add in a few more things here:
  • Cruisers and Heavier wrestlers are supposed to be divided, unless they are putting over the big guy. See: Scotty2 Hotty, Rey in WCW especially, Shannon Moore vs Lesnar, Funaki (though to be fair, Funaki jobs even to little guys)
  • Cruisers shouldn't really be expected to "break out" of being a cruiserweight.
  • Even when cruisers have "it," They don't get used.
  • There's nothing wrong with "still" being a cruiser.
Kane Knight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 11:19 AM   #15
Mercury Bullet
The Year of the Bullet
 
Mercury Bullet's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,259
Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
  • There's nothing wrong with "still" being a cruiser.
Totally agree, and instead of pushing Chavo or Helms out of the cruiserweight division to get them to something more "important", they should make the Cruiserweight Title seem more important. Then you would lift them and your gold without trying to pull another Rey.
Mercury Bullet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 11:22 AM   #16
Jeritron
Get a poke on
 
Jeritron's Avatar
 
Posts: 35,234
Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Yea but Rey is different. Maybe he should have never won the title, but Rey is so over that he can't just waste away in the cruiserweight division. He's clearly over enough and enough of a draw to be involved in high profile fueds and storylines and be a mainstay of the uppermidcard. I don't have any problem with him becoming an IC or US champion and picking up clean victories. I just think he's so over and entertaining with all demographics of fans that he should be pushed and treated like one of the companies top stars, which he has been and will likely continue to be upon his return.

With Gregory Helms its different. I like him, he's good. But he's not Rey Mysterio.
Jeritron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 11:30 AM   #17
The One
Boss
 
The One's Avatar
 
Posts: 17,611
The One has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)The One has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)The One has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)The One has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)The One has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)The One has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)The One has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)The One has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)The One has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)The One has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)
Nobody is to blame. Both are small guys with limited charisma. Not to mention for being small guys they don't do all those fancy flips we expect everyone under 6' to do. Helms had a commercially successful run as Hurricane, and Chavo was involved with the SmackDown 6 matches (of which he was personally my favorite). Now both are back to a comfortable place, still making good money. Why should anyone be blamed for that?
The One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 11:51 AM   #18
Kane Knight
Ron Paul 4 EVA
 
Kane Knight's Avatar
 
Posts: 152,467
Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeritron
Yea but Rey is different. Maybe he should have never won the title, but Rey is so over that he can't just waste away in the cruiserweight division.
So make the Cruiser division better.

Rey is too small a fish to sustain himself outside of Cruiser world. He's popular, he's over, but then, that doesn't matter when you cant look credible.
Kane Knight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 11:55 AM   #19
Tornado
Tedious Inevitability
 
Tornado's Avatar
 
Posts: 7,521
Tornado has a great deal of rep (15,000+)Tornado has a great deal of rep (15,000+)Tornado has a great deal of rep (15,000+)Tornado has a great deal of rep (15,000+)Tornado has a great deal of rep (15,000+)Tornado has a great deal of rep (15,000+)Tornado has a great deal of rep (15,000+)
I've always been pretty "meh" when it comes to Chavo.
Tornado is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 11:56 AM   #20
Mercury Bullet
The Year of the Bullet
 
Mercury Bullet's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,259
Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)
While I agree that Rey is more over than most, well, the rest of the cruiserweights I don't see why the cruiserweight division is such a negative thing to be associated with. The WWE has some talented cruiserweights, invest some time into making it a little more interesting.
Mercury Bullet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 12:12 PM   #21
Anybody Thrilla
Cranky Kong
 
Anybody Thrilla's Avatar
 
Posts: 78,671
Anybody Thrilla makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Anybody Thrilla makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Anybody Thrilla makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Anybody Thrilla makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Anybody Thrilla makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Anybody Thrilla makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Anybody Thrilla makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Anybody Thrilla makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Anybody Thrilla makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Anybody Thrilla makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Anybody Thrilla makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Anybody Thrilla makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Anybody Thrilla makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
You guys are having an interesting discussion here, and I'm not trying to shit on it, but I feel compelled to say that Gregory Helms has a really sweet theme song.
Anybody Thrilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 12:32 PM   #22
Jeritron
Get a poke on
 
Jeritron's Avatar
 
Posts: 35,234
Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
So make the Cruiser division better.

Rey is too small a fish to sustain himself outside of Cruiser world. He's popular, he's over, but then, that doesn't matter when you cant look credible.
I think he's a credible star on the midcard to upper midcard. Personally I think they should put him a popular tag team pairing again. I'm not gonna lie, I'd buy the guy as a credible US or IC champion. Especially now. Maybe thats me.
Jeritron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 12:34 PM   #23
Kane Knight
Ron Paul 4 EVA
 
Kane Knight's Avatar
 
Posts: 152,467
Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet
While I agree that Rey is more over than most, well, the rest of the cruiserweights I don't see why the cruiserweight division is such a negative thing to be associated with. The WWE has some talented cruiserweights, invest some time into making it a little more interesting.
Cruiserweight's always been a bit of an "undercard" thing. Which is a shame, but let's not ignore the facts.
Kane Knight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 12:35 PM   #24
Kane Knight
Ron Paul 4 EVA
 
Kane Knight's Avatar
 
Posts: 152,467
Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeritron
I think he's a credible star on the midcard to upper midcard.


I'm sorry, it's just picturing a child beating up your average midcarder.

He could be the midcard answer to Scotty 2 Hotty, but...
Kane Knight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 12:55 PM   #25
Jura
▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬
 
Jura's Avatar
 
Posts: 16,011
Jura makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jura makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jura makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jura makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jura makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jura makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jura makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jura makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jura makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jura makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jura makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jura makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jura makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
You guys may disagree with me but I think in the wrestling world these days you are pretty much nothing unless you become a world champion. So being in the CW is pretty much saying you will probably not be world champion.

To fix this would to make the CW division better and the title more important but how to go about this? It's pretty much a king of jobbers title.

I only see a temporary way and that's to get a heel heavyweight to go to the CW division. Give him the title and make the cruiser-weights seem like nothing. But get the best cruiser-weights to battle him and make it so they are kicking his ass to show the best cruiser-weights are no push-overs. A David and Goliath type thing.
Jura is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 01:16 PM   #26
Kane Knight
Ron Paul 4 EVA
 
Kane Knight's Avatar
 
Posts: 152,467
Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jura
How to fix the Cruiserweight Championship
By Jura J.
Grade 2


You guys may disagree with me but I think in the wrestling world these days you are pretty much nothing unless you become a world champion. So being in the CW is pretty much saying you will probably not be world champion.

To fix this would to make the CW division better and the title more important but how to go about this? It's pretty much a king of jobbers title.

I only see a temporary way and that's to get a heel heavyweight to go to the CW division. Give him the title and make the cruiser-weights seem like nothing. But get the best cruiser-weights to battle him and make it so they are kicking his ass to show the best cruiser-weights are no push-overs. A David and Goliath type thing.
Kane Knight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 01:20 PM   #27
Jura
▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬
 
Jura's Avatar
 
Posts: 16,011
Jura makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jura makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jura makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jura makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jura makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jura makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jura makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jura makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jura makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jura makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jura makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jura makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jura makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
I hope I get a gold star!
Jura is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 01:20 PM   #28
Kane Knight
Ron Paul 4 EVA
 
Kane Knight's Avatar
 
Posts: 152,467
Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
I'd say the best way to make the CW division and title look stronger is not feed cruisers to hosses when needed. Or, say you have a cruiser who is pushed to "main event" status, you book him as a credible contender, putting over the CW title. None of this "I'm lucky I wasn't killed in that title match" shit. Save that for some pussy heel. You book him as a legit contender and you put him up against people he could feasably win against, and you sell him as a former cruiser champion, instead of a guy lucky enough to be filling in for his dead buddy.
Kane Knight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 02:22 PM   #29
Jeritron
Get a poke on
 
Jeritron's Avatar
 
Posts: 35,234
Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jeritron makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Rey was over and being pushed accordingly prior to Eddie's death. He wasn't going to ever be a world champion or get a Royal Rumble win/WM main event push, but he was certainly out of the CW division and had moved onto the uppermidcard and was being pushed accordingly as a top star in the WWE.

I agree it was atrocious to have him jobbing to Kane and other regularly in non title matches. But I still buy him wrestling actual matches that aren't him cheating death to escape with his belt, not as a world champion but as a US champion. Perhaps he'd still have to play the underdog card slightly, but not to such an extent.
Jeritron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 02:47 PM   #30
Kane Knight
Ron Paul 4 EVA
 
Kane Knight's Avatar
 
Posts: 152,467
Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
His push pre-gurerro was still a joke.
Kane Knight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 03:04 PM   #31
Anybody Thrilla
Cranky Kong
 
Anybody Thrilla's Avatar
 
Posts: 78,671
Anybody Thrilla makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Anybody Thrilla makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Anybody Thrilla makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Anybody Thrilla makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Anybody Thrilla makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Anybody Thrilla makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Anybody Thrilla makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Anybody Thrilla makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Anybody Thrilla makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Anybody Thrilla makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Anybody Thrilla makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Anybody Thrilla makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Anybody Thrilla makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
I thought Kerwin White was entertaining as hell.
Anybody Thrilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 07:25 PM   #32
Mercury Bullet
The Year of the Bullet
 
Mercury Bullet's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,259
Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)
I dont think the cruiserweight title and the cruiserweight division should be made up of "Main Eventers". But the title, which isn't worth the material its made of at the moment, should definately be on level with IC/US straps. Helms, Chavo, and a few others are definately worthy of that level.
Mercury Bullet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 07:33 PM   #33
Mr. Nerfect
 
Posts: 61,543
Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
There is nothing wrong with Gregory Helms or Chavo Guerrero as performers. So really they cannot be held responsible. Their placing is really based on where the WWE feels comfortable placing its cruiserweights.

The discussion as seemingly shifted into how important the Cruiserweight Division should be, and in an ideal world it would be "very". I've always been secretly hoping that while he was Champion, Gregory Helms would cut a promo where he came out and declared that being the Cruiserweight Champion made him the top guy in the business 225lbs, or under. While Rey Mysterio was World Heavyweight Champion, this would have made a nifty feud between the two. Helms as the top cruiserweight in the world, and Mysterio as the top heavyweight, whilst still technically a cruiserweight.

I disagree with the theory that small guys cannot be main event players, though. Chris Jericho and Eddie Guerrero were both former Cruiserweight Champions. Raven is a former Cruiserweight Champion. Chris Benoit is a former Light Heavyweight Champion. Shawn Michaels is a pretty small guy compared to others.

Being little shouldn't get in the way of a guy.
Mr. Nerfect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 07:36 PM   #34
Mercury Bullet
The Year of the Bullet
 
Mercury Bullet's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,259
Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Mercury Bullet puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)
A Helms-Rey fued while the belts were on them would have been great and ideal for bolstering cruiserweight credibility.
Mercury Bullet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 09:36 PM   #35
Kane Knight
Ron Paul 4 EVA
 
Kane Knight's Avatar
 
Posts: 152,467
Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06
I disagree with the theory that small guys cannot be main event players, though. Chris Jericho and Eddie Guerrero were both former Cruiserweight Champions. Raven is a former Cruiserweight Champion. Chris Benoit is a former Light Heavyweight Champion. Shawn Michaels is a pretty small guy compared to others.

Being little shouldn't get in the way of a guy.
Number of those guys actually thought of as "small guys:" 0.
Kane Knight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 09:39 PM   #36
Xero
He's Here
 
Xero's Avatar
 
Posts: 60,735
Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
I'd consider Eddie "small", as well as Jericho. Michaels is pretty much on the border (he was never booked like a small guy, but there is a significant size difference between him and other main eventers). The others, though, no.
Xero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 09:51 PM   #37
Jordan
It's a blood match!
 
Jordan's Avatar
 
Posts: 27,382
Jordan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jordan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jordan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jordan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jordan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jordan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jordan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jordan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jordan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jordan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jordan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jordan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Jordan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Im sure Helms would disagree as he (in the past few years) earned some of the highest merchandise of any WWE wrestler.

Chavo has been in and out, but he has held 3 titles numerous times as well as feud with Eddie, Rey, and Benoit.

They aren't a John Cena or Booker T but they have done well, I mean they still have their jobs right?
Jordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 09:58 PM   #38
Kane Knight
Ron Paul 4 EVA
 
Kane Knight's Avatar
 
Posts: 152,467
Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126
I'd consider Eddie "small", as well as Jericho. Michaels is pretty much on the border (he was never booked like a small guy, but there is a significant size difference between him and other main eventers). The others, though, no.
Jericho is comparable in size, though not bulk, with Triple H. Michaels, too.

Eddie? Eddie was succsessful primarily as a more beefed up version of his former self, and he still looked physically large. Not "hoss" large, but a lot of people would have trouble thinking of him as a cruiser.
Kane Knight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 10:00 PM   #39
Kane Knight
Ron Paul 4 EVA
 
Kane Knight's Avatar
 
Posts: 152,467
Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Kane Knight makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan X
Im sure Helms would disagree as he (in the past few years) earned some of the highest merchandise of any WWE wrestler.

Chavo has been in and out, but he has held 3 titles numerous times as well as feud with Eddie, Rey, and Benoit.

They aren't a John Cena or Booker T but they have done well, I mean they still have their jobs right?
Shannon Moore keeps managing to find employment, too.
Kane Knight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 10:20 PM   #40
The One
Boss
 
The One's Avatar
 
Posts: 17,611
The One has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)The One has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)The One has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)The One has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)The One has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)The One has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)The One has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)The One has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)The One has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)The One has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)
There's always work for divas though...
The One is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:00 PM.

Forums Home - TPWW - Archive - Top

Powered by vBulletin®