Soo...what do you do to an MS employee who say the truth? FIRE AND SUE THEM!

[darkpower]

Sorry if that title seemed fanboyish, but I couldn't think of anything else to tag this topic with.

Seems MS wasn't happy about some people going out and talking about the 360 hardware woes to the press:

http://venturebeat.com/2008/09/12/mi...o-venturebeat/

Microsoft fires game test contractor who talked to VentureBeat Dean Takahashi | September 12th, 2008 Robert Delaware was the only named Microsoft worker (a contract employee) who talked — without permission — to VentureBeat for our story last week on the Xbox 360 defects. Microsoft had him fired on Wednesday. Delaware worked as a game tester at Microsoft but was employed by the temp agency Excell Data. He reported directly to a Microsoft manager, who told him he was being let go because of the VentureBeat article. Delaware, a 29-year-old Seattle resident, expects to face civil charges from his former employer VMC (which tests games for Microsoft) and Microsoft as well. He will likely have to hire a lawyer. Microsoft spokesman David Dennis said the company does not talk about personnel issues. “I don’t regret it,” he said in a phone call on Thursday. “I’ll fight it. If they want to come after me, bring it on.” Delaware bravely decided to come forward and talk on the record for our story about the many problems associated with the launch of the Xbox 360. He talked to me about how he learned about problems with the hardware while working as a game tester for VMC. He worked there from 2005 to the fall of 2007. He left to join a start-up, Whrrl, and then returned to the game testing job at Excell, working for Microsoft, this summer. During his time at VMC, he saw how Xbox Live updates embedded in retail games could turn working consoles into worthless hulks. I found his remarks to be refreshing and candid. He later moved to work for Microsoft, testing games for its Bungie studio. Clearly, from a legalistic point of view, Delaware broke company policy and it is the company’s right to fire him (he fully knew the risk he was taking, based on multiple conversations I had with him about using his name). But this kind of witch hunt mentality is wrong-headed. People like Delaware are more useful hunting down bugs and fixing problems. I think the company really should apply their energy in different directions, like making sure that consumers are treated right. The firing disappoints me, and I wish Delaware well. Delaware said he got some positive feedback at work about the story. On Friday, he believed a couple of people were arguing about his involvement in our story. But nothing happened until Wednesday, when he talked with his boss and communicated with an HR rep for Excell Data on the phone. The HR rep was the one who told him that he would likelyface legal trouble. When I was thinking about making a difference with our story, this isn’t what I had in mind. But there has been a lot of feedback on my story from angry consumers. Asked if I should write a story about this firing, Delaware said, “Rock and roll. It feels good. It was the moral thing to do.” Updates on other fallout from our story Tom Prettyman, a 24-year-old network administrator in Hamilton, N.J., wrote in to tell me that he has gone through 11 failed consoles. The first one broke three days after he bought it in November, 2006. It happened so many times that he bought the extra $60 warranties to get the machines replaced for free early on. “I want to thank you for writing about this,” he wrote. “Especially in this day and age when investigative journalism seems to have become a thing of the past” Prettyman wasn’t aware that there was another guy, Justin Lowe, a 22-year-old student in Pembroke Pines, Fla., who also had 11 broken consoles. His twelfth console, sent to him by the advertising team at Microsoft for free, has problems reading game disks. A few people really didn’t want to hear about the defect problems again. But I heard from a lot of people who believed passionately that telling the story was the right thing to do. Rob Cassingham, who had seven consoles break on him (as we noted in the story), wrote in from Moab, Utah, to tell us that he has now had eight break on him. Jason Miskimins alerted us to a problem that results in a console failure but apparently does not lead to the Red Ring of Death problem for which Microsoft will offer free replacements. Miskimins says this “black screen of death” problem isn’t covered by the warranty and Microsoft charges for fixing the problem. The story has spread pretty far. A writer in Poland asked if it was OK to translate it into Polish.

[KingofOldSchool]

So he was merely a game tester.

Usually companies don't like their employees to talk to the press about stuff like that.

He should have known better.

[Funky Fly]

Pretty standard corporate operating procedure right there. Definitely not right, but they've got Johnny Law on their side.

[darkpower]

Originally Posted by KingofOldSchool So he was merely a game tester. Usually companies don't like their employees to talk to the press about stuff like that. He should have known better.

Yeah, true, but this kind of begs a question: Why would MS want to hide something the general gaming public knows is there and is something that has gotten mainstream press coverage since the system came out and people are STILL having problems with or are using it as a reason to hesitate from buying a 360 (it's still one of my main reasons I'm a little squeamish about buying one).

I know it may not be like that and they may not intend to hide anything, but this just gives people that impression that they DO have something to hide (or at least they are thinking that sweeping the issue under the rug of fuck over anyone in your company that brings it up will make it go away).

Makes you wonder WHY they're telling their employees not to say anything about it. We all KNOW the hardware failures exists and are widespread, so it's not like they anyone can say "but is what he said true?".

[darkpower]

Originally Posted by Funky Fly Pretty standard corporate operating procedure right there. Definitely not right, but they've got Johnny Law on their side.

Firing him for that reason is immoral, but they might be able to get away with it in some minds.

SUING him, however, gives a whole NEW dimension to all of this. What would they want to sue him for, slander? Of course, it only said that they EXPECT that, but still, they seem too confident that MS will go that route for it to be less than just a possibility.

[KingofOldSchool]

Originally Posted by darkpower Firing him for that reason is immoral, but they might be able to get away with it in some minds. SUING him, however, gives a whole NEW dimension to all of this. What would they want to sue him for, slander? Of course, it only said that they EXPECT that, but still, they seem too confident that MS will go that route for it to be less than just a possibility.

They probably have a no disclosure rule written into their contracts.

Most big companies have that as a standard.

You can argue ethics all you want, but the idiot should have known what he was getting himself into.

He's not going to win, especially if MS can prove that he knew that he wasn't allowed to discuss that kind of information with the media.

And I'm sure they can.

[darkpower]

Originally Posted by KingofOldSchool They probably have a no disclosure rule written into their contracts. Most big companies have that as a standard. You can argue ethics all you want, but the idiot should have known what he was getting himself into. He's not going to win, especially if MS can prove that he knew that he wasn't allowed to discuss that kind of information with the media. And I'm sure they can.

That much you have a point on. Still, though, that may not explain why the hell would they not want to "disclose" something that was "disclosed" within a few months after the system dropped.

And plus, while they have those clauses, there can be exceptions to the rule and they can choose not to enforce any clause on account of nature of the situation that caused such actions to be committed (usually if it would mean that their reputation towards consumers would be tarnished if they did enforce it, as was the case with that whole Wal-Mart/Debra Shank case). They could've just as easily released a statement saying that they do understand that such issues are a widespread issue and made it into a positive by addressing the issues so the holidays could be even better for their wallets. In other words, there was a high road MS could've taken here.

As for what could happen, MS may want to be careful if they choose to go through with a legal case, since the NDA in question would have to be examined in full. There could be cases into how reaching the NDA is and why clauses are in there. The judge could, just as easily as he could say that the guy was in the complete wrong, say that MS was too overreaching in their case (assuming they COULD sue for such a thing). They would have to prove that they lost money from him breaking a promise (which is highly improbable to prove that it was that that caused lost finances). The better suit would then be slander, since they could be able to say that the causes he said were the reasons for the hardware woes weren't what MS said it was and that he lied about how widespread it was. However, they would need to prove that it was just HIS words that made a loss of financial gain happen.

Not saying that they can't win, but if they sue, they have to be careful not to overdo it and make this any bigger of a story than it is now

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Sony employee fired for comparing PS3 to Xbox 360

http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=14477

Originally Posted by The Fucking Article A former employee of Sony Online Entertainment has spoken out about how an online article criticising the PlayStation 3 ended up getting him fired from the company. In an interview with PS3week, former SOE 3D artist Josh Robinson said: "All I really did was write a few paragraphs that gave my opinion on publicly released information... I didn't reveal any tech info and I didn't reveal different shipping plans. I'm still in awe at the whole uproar over what amounts to NO information." In January, Robinson posted an article on his blog which read: "Our game just keeps getting moved back... And back... And back. Again, where is the box? Where is the final system? When is it coming out? No one knows and in the mean time people in the industry are starting to get just a little salty." "You could always tell where the PS3 dev box was because it's the room that had the F-bomb coming out of it half the day," he added. But the comments most likely to have riled Sony executives were to do with the PS3's technical capabilities versus those of the Xbox 360: "I've also talked with people on the technical side of the Xbox 360. The consistent comment I am hearing from people on my end is, 'The Xbox 360 is better'," Robinson wrote. "They are saying that it is capable of just doing more." Robinson told PS3week that he asked at least two Sony employees to read the blog entry before it was posted, and even showed it to an SOE producer. "We were all in agreement that I was not breaking NDA with what I was saying," he said. However, according to Robinson, he was "Let go at Sony after the article was plopped on the desk of Sony corporate. I was also asked to remove the article immediately, which I did without any resistance." Although Robinson has defended his right to publish the article, he claims that he has no bad feelings towards SOE: "It was something unfortunate that happened and I sincerely hope Sony isn't damaged by it... In fact I cannot say enough nice things about the CEO and the VP of the company." "Did I knowingly break NDA? I absolutely did not. I would never do that and I would never want to hurt Sony Online. Did I dance in the grey area by even opening my mouth? Yes I did and I was fired for it." Robinson said he received four or five job offers immediately after leaving Sony, and even got a book deal as a result of the article. He has now accepted a new position at an unnamed company in the Santa Monica area - but while Robinson is optimistic about the future, he has clearly learned a lesson from his experience. "I guess the new rule for me is, don't ever say anything at all about anything. Ever... Ever."

[Kane Knight]

Yes. Why would Microsoft fire someone who violated an NDA? The obvious answer is CONSPIRACY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Hasney Sony employee fired for comparing PS3 to Xbox 360 http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=14477

But that's different because I like Sony!

[#BROKEN Hasney]

So, as proven, this is a standard business practice. If you Googled long enough, I'm sure you could find a Nintendo one or an IBM one, hell, I've even heard of a Google one.

I will be fair on DP though, he may not have found it on his search engine of choice

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Hasney So, as proven, this is a standard business practice. If you Googled long enough, I'm sure you could find a Nintendo one or an IBM one, hell, I've even heard of a Google one. I will be fair on DP though, he may not have found it on his search engine of choice

He probably got it from N4G (Newz 4 fanboyz). They're not biased, you know, because they agree with what he says.

[KingofOldSchool]

You know it's funny...my PS2 gave me two DRE's in my first 2-3 years of owning it.

My 360 has yet to get a RROD and I've had it for over two years now.

My point? Not much other than my Sony systems have failed on me more than my Microsoft system.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Yeah, the launch PS2s were shite. Credit to Sony for getting it fixed before it came to Europe though.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by KingofOldSchool You know it's funny...my PS2 gave me two DRE's in my first 2-3 years of owning it. My 360 has yet to get a RROD and I've had it for over two years now. My point? Not much other than my Sony systems have failed on me more than my Microsoft system.

Yeah, and the first Playstation was released with known flaws, too.

Originally Posted by Hasney Yeah, the launch PS2s were shite. Credit to Sony for getting it fixed before it came to Europe though.

I don't know about that, but I do know that Sony only stopped charging to repair the known flaw after a class action lawsuit, whereas Microsoft didn't have to get sued before offering to fix the problem. That and Sony kept their DRE policy secret, whereas the RRoD warranty was a PR release, as well as being listed on their warranty page.
I mean, does that make Microsoft superior? Hardly. But when we're talking about ethics...

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Heh, never knew they were charging to get them fixed

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Hasney Heh, never knew they were charging to get them fixed

DREs? Yeah. They whacked people for repair costs for over a year, then they HID the fact that they were repairing it for free. In fact, the DRE FAQs online often mentioned that you shouldn't mention the free repair to the Sony service techs. They had to be sued to get even that far, in the states. In Europe, there are stricter laws in terms of quality control and longer mandatory warranties, so you were probably much more sheltered. Case in point, Microsoft had to comply with mandatory warranty laws in Canadia and at least most of Europe, even when they were giving us 90 day warranties.

[DS]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight I don't know about that, but I do know that Sony only stopped charging to repair the known flaw after a class action lawsuit, whereas Microsoft didn't have to get sued before offering to fix the problem.

Uh, Microsoft had a class action lawsuit against them for the RRoD problems 10 days after the 360 was released. Here's a PDF of the lawsuit in case you want to take a look at it: http://www.gamecyte.com/wp-content/u...it-12-2-05.pdf

And they also had another CAL against it for scratching discs.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by DS Uh, Microsoft had a class action lawsuit against them for the RRoD problems 10 days after the 360 was released. Here's a PDF of the lawsuit in case you want to take a look at it: http://www.gamecyte.com/wp-content/u...it-12-2-05.pdf And they also had another CAL against it for scratching discs.

Can anyone verify this? The only CAL suits about RRoD I know of never actually made it to court. This one professes to have knowledge that would belie the date of filing, which looks rather suspicious. Specifically, consumer knowledge based on data unlikely to sufficiently accrue in ten days.

You may be right; it doesn't mean it's not suspicious, however.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

I can't find one about the RRoD, but there were 2 filed for the 360 damaging game discs.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/article...inst-microsoft

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Hasney I can't find one about the RRoD, but there were 2 filed for the 360 damaging game discs. http://www.gamesindustry.biz/article...inst-microsoft

I notice the lawsuit's over a year old, and neither it or the one a week before have gone anywhere specific. Meanwhile, while RROD claims have validity, this seems to be rather isolated.

Again, not to say it's not true, or not an issue, but I mean the RROD and DRE were readily identifiable and easy to demonstrate.

[Ninti the Mad]

12 machines break on ONE person? Bullshit unless they mistreated the shit out of them.

[El Fangel]

Or they bought 12 machines, and left them on continuously to prove they had 12 machines break on them.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Ninti the Mad 12 machines break on ONE person? Bullshit unless they mistreated the shit out of them.

It's possible, just extremely unlikely.

[El Fangel]

My main question is, why would the dumbfuck keep buying them.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Fallen Angel My main question is, why would the dumbfuck keep buying them.

It falls apart under scrutiny, doesn't it?

[darkpower]

Originally Posted by Hasney So, as proven, this is a standard business practice. If you Googled long enough, I'm sure you could find a Nintendo one or an IBM one, hell, I've even heard of a Google one. I will be fair on DP though, he may not have found it on his search engine of choice

Hasney, I'm flattered that you continue to want to advertise my site and show how much of a big fan you are of my work.

I couldn't PAY enough for THIS much publicity. Thank you so VERY much.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by darkpower Hasney, I'm flattered that you continue to want to advertise my site and show how much of a big fan you are of my work. I couldn't PAY enough for THIS much publicity. Thank you so VERY much.

I wonder why you would fixate on that, as opposed to the larger point. Could you be dodging the prejudice with which you made an inane claim in the first place? BAWWWWWWWWW! MS FIRES PEOPLE! BAWWWWWWWW!

[TerranRich]

I wonder why YOU would fixate on THAT, KK. But whatever, I guess you have some magical stones that don't break glass houses, right?

[BigDaddyCool]

“I don’t regret it,” he said in a phone call on Thursday. “I’ll fight it. If they want to come after me, bring it on.”

This part makes me laugh. Some jackass thinks he can win a legal fight with Microsoft.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool This part makes me laugh. Some jackass thinks he can win a legal fight with Microsoft.

He was stupid enough to violate an NDA and thinks he did nothing wrong...Of course he's going to think he can hold his own against Microsoft. The only way he could look any dumber is if he made this thread.