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Old 10-15-2008, 06:50 PM   #1
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Why is nobody watching TNA?
I was looking at the ratings graph from one of the other threads. Their ratings are consistantly around the 1.0 mark. TNA is doing a pretty good job of proving they just can't do it. They have a lot of advantages that WWE DIDN'T have when Raw first went primetime. They have guys who are already household names. They have the fact that wrestling is now completely mainstream. They HAD one of the most prestigious belts in the history of wrestling. What is it going go take to get people to watch the show? Given WWE's ratings, you could argue less overall people are watching wrestling. Then again, given WWE's ratings you could argue that if they were capable of it, now would be the perfect time for TNA to start their own boom.

Will TNA ever be a threat? Or will Vince buy them out in five years?

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Old 10-15-2008, 07:20 PM   #2
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TNA looks really bad -- and I mean that aesthetically. It's not a wrestling ring; the "arena" looks to be the size of a high school gym; the "big names" are either guys like Christian who were never huge huge in WWE or guys like Booker T who are more than useless. He's in the early stagte of Flairism. One could argue that Angle is huge, but I lost my respect for him because he jumped to TNA.

In short, TNA kinda looks like a public access version of American Gladiators. It's a hokey as you can get. Granted, that may be due to the fact that WWE is enormous and anything put beside it will look diminished, but still...it looks less than impressive.
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Old 10-15-2008, 07:28 PM   #3
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I think at this point, the ball is in TNA's court as far as the next pro-wrestling boom. They need to find that winning formula that WCW did back in 96 (and NO it's not the NWO v.12) Something similar could spark interest though. As crazy as it sounds, Russo has the best mind at this time for coming up with an all-inclusive angle like this. As long as he lays the groundwork, and the braintrust at TNA keep his goofiness to a minimum, he could theoretically build the next big storyline in pro wrestling. Not only that, but they have the in-ring talent to pull it off, and recognizable names. Hopefully in the next couple of years, we'll see something happen.
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Old 10-15-2008, 07:37 PM   #4
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Old 10-15-2008, 07:38 PM   #5
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Need to stop doing taped events.
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:08 PM   #6
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Taping does jack shit. People will watch if it's good whether they read the spoilers or not.
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:15 PM   #7
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One could argue that Angle is huge, but I lost my respect for him because he jumped to TNA.
It's thinking like that that will keep TNA down. If they can't get backing from the wrestling community they ain't gonna get people from outside it to jump on board.

I've seen it a half dozen times on these boards. Most recently Foley went from being "Hardcore Legend and God" in WWE to being a piece of scum all because he joined TNA.

I agree with your point about the aesthetics though. I've been re-watching some of last years TNA PPVs and the Impact Zone just looks like ply wood. It certainly doesn't help.

We've been through the pros and cons of TNA forever. Inring they have some real talent - probably better than WWE. They also have some good promo guys. Sadly, TNA gets bogged down in over-hyped, over complicated gimmick matches. The best example of which was last year's "Fight For The Right" tournament.
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:18 PM   #8
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I'm willing to forgive the small size of the arena. Raw started off in small places. Hell, with the crowds they draw and the way they have to tape off, there is no reason they couldn't go back to the smaller arena. I do like that TNA has separate tunnels for there combatants, but at the same time, you are right, the rest of the arena feels a lot more like WCW taped in Orlando than prime time Raw.
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:19 PM   #9
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If Dixie has so much money, why can't she invest in a better impact zone?
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:22 PM   #10
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Who knows what they'll do. Anything can happen. They have assets and potential, but can't get shit right. They also have huge handicaps and are working uphill.

The wrestling industry is like the Donkey Kong arcade game. The WWE is a giant gorilla at the top, that is almost impossible to catch. If it isn't hard enough to climb the crooked system you have obstacles and luck working against you. And if you do manage to get to the top, Vince is gonna take it to the next level and you're back at the bottom.

They need to focus on themselves and worry about getting the best show possible, rather than topping the E. The rest will follow.
Maybe they're destined to fail, maybe they'll just fuck up. Maybe they'll get lucky and fall ass backwards into something that takes them to a boom. Or maybe they'll just steadily decline into nothingness.

One thing's for sure. Vince isn't buying them out. Their not worth it nor a threat. If they lose television, they'll be worth nothing and then Vince will probably buy the tape library and a couple talents for a dollar fifty.
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:26 PM   #11
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Not saying 1 ppv means everything, but it only had 1 special match. Of course it did have two 3-way matches.
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:42 PM   #12
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I think they spend way too much time on the X-Division. Yeah, some of those matches are pretty exciting, but some of them degenerate into clusterfuck spotfests about seven minutes in and you have four guys just bouncing into each other, driving each other into the mat, flipping around GETTING BACK UP, until a couple get knocked out of the ring and one barely gets the pin.
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:45 PM   #13
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If they had more time I would say add a mid-card title because it seems like you're either in the X-Division, in a tag team, a woman, or in the main event. How do you move up?
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:47 PM   #14
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They need to go a more realistic route, it's the only way they can compete with WWE. At this point they're just booking the WWE style with swerves turned way the fuck up, and WWE's style attracts the fans that TNA should not be booking for. TNA should be going for the 18-34 demographic. There are plenty in that demo that would be willing to watch wrestling if it's done in a way the Attitude era was handled, but with more of a wrestling basis.

I'm not saying go all-out MMA-type shit, and I'm not saying they should make it completely 'serious', but there's a HUGE chunk of audience out there that WWE has lost and TNA could gain. If WWE ever regains them before TNA does, TNA is fucked.

They also need to manage their own talent and put them on the same level as and higher than the former WWE wrestlers.
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:54 PM   #15
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If they had more time I would say add a mid-card title because it seems like you're either in the X-Division, in a tag team, a woman, or in the main event. How do you move up?
I think another title would be too many. IMO they have it just right...at least for number of belts.

What they need to do is stop booking the X Title as a makeshift Cruiser belt. The idea was "No weight limits, No limits" so go back to that. At the moment all of the guys vying for the X belt are small, cruiser guys. Didn't Angle wanna mix it up in the X Division.

Put a few of the bigger guys that are decent in the ring or can fly. Morgan is pretty decent with some impressive moves, Hernandez can fly for a big guy (They might be bad examples though).
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Old 10-15-2008, 09:13 PM   #16
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It's thinking like that that will keep TNA down. If they can't get backing from the wrestling community they ain't gonna get people from outside it to jump on board.
On the flipside, if they can't win over the community most likely to like them, maybe they don't deserve to get people from outside to jump on board?

First, you have a lot of guys who have a grudge or the like with WWE, so they look like bad moves. You mention Foley, a guy who left WWE over a hissyfit. Christian, the guy not good enough for WWE, Angle, a guy who left the WWE due to drugs...

And even then, they tend to tarnish their stars. When Sting made his first appearance on TV since they switched to color or whatever, everyone I know tuned in. And then got him quitting. Everyone tuned out again. I mean, come on. They have done more to piss away golden opportunities than either WWE. So if they can't gain acceptance, maybe they just don't deserve it.
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:07 PM   #17
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On the flipside, if they can't win over the community most likely to like them, maybe they don't deserve to get people from outside to jump on board?
Good point.

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First, you have a lot of guys who have a grudge or the like with WWE, so they look like bad moves. You mention Foley, a guy who left WWE over a hissyfit. Christian, the guy not good enough for WWE, Angle, a guy who left the WWE due to drugs...
This may be true but Afterlife said he lost respect for Angle because he went to TNA not cos of the drugs. Personally, I lost a lot of respect for Angle for the drugs/painkillers/getting sacked from WWE.

I guess the question is...Do peoples' opinions on certain individuals change cos they go to TNA or cos of the reason they go (hissyfit, feeling under appreciated, drug addiction/firing)?
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:30 PM   #18
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I think another title would be too many. IMO they have it just right...at least for number of belts.

What they need to do is stop booking the X Title as a makeshift Cruiser belt. The idea was "No weight limits, No limits" so go back to that. At the moment all of the guys vying for the X belt are small, cruiser guys. Didn't Angle wanna mix it up in the X Division.

Put a few of the bigger guys that are decent in the ring or can fly. Morgan is pretty decent with some impressive moves, Hernandez can fly for a big guy (They might be bad examples though).
That's true. WCW had a shit load of belts though. Cruiser, TV, US, Tag, Women's, Hardcore, and Heavyweight. Granted, not all were relevant at the same time and given TNA's current state of booking and time constraints they would probably be better off using the X-Title as a mid-card title. It just seems like every other feud is a pointless midcard feud and then eventually some guy winds up in the main event.
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:21 PM   #19
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They run 2 hours and have a slew of uppermidcard talent lingering in limbo at all times. They need another belt equivalent to the IC or US title.
The X division should be it's own thing and operate seperately since it's the only thing they have unique and their bread and butter, yet they've gotten away from it. If they're not gonna use it to it's potential, they should change it into a different title altogether or can it.
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:27 PM   #20
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Haven't we already established that Vince owns TNA and doesn't want them to be huge?

Haven't we?
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:29 PM   #21
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Nah, if Vince owns something and doesn't want it to be huge he doesn't string it along. See: XFL, WBF
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Old 10-16-2008, 12:11 AM   #22
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Old 10-16-2008, 12:42 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XL View Post
It's thinking like that that will keep TNA down. If they can't get backing from the wrestling community they ain't gonna get people from outside it to jump on board.

I've seen it a half dozen times on these boards. Most recently Foley went from being "Hardcore Legend and God" in WWE to being a piece of scum all because he joined TNA.

I agree with your point about the aesthetics though. I've been re-watching some of last years TNA PPVs and the Impact Zone just looks like ply wood. It certainly doesn't help.

We've been through the pros and cons of TNA forever. Inring they have some real talent - probably better than WWE. They also have some good promo guys. Sadly, TNA gets bogged down in over-hyped, over complicated gimmick matches. The best example of which was last year's "Fight For The Right" tournament.
To clarify, I didn't lose respect for Angle because he went to TNA. Rather, I lost respect for him because he needed help -- the purpose for his suspension from WWE in the first place-- and when he had the chance to get it, he lost his mind completely and immediately started to work for TNA even after saying he would get the help he so clearly required. Since then, I've just been afraid to watch him. It's not his affiliation with the company but the way he became affiliated and what he's done to one of my previously favorite wrestlers: himself.
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Old 10-16-2008, 01:35 AM   #24
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Didn't read this thread other than the first few posts, but it comes down to this:

1. The arena looks shitty. Not small but shitty. Their presentation just sucks.

2. I can never really tell WTF is going on. People switch from face to heel and back like they are changing outfits.

3. Some storylines are just retarded. Sting quitting for example. James Mitchell and Abyss ripping off Paul Bearer and Kane, blah blah blah.

4. The god damned announce team. Someone stab them in the throat PLEASE.

5. Misuse of talent.
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Old 10-16-2008, 02:13 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Funky Fly View Post
Didn't read this thread other than the first few posts, but it comes down to this:

1. The arena looks shitty. Not small but shitty. Their presentation just sucks.

2. I can never really tell WTF is going on. People switch from face to heel and back like they are changing outfits.

3. Some storylines are just retarded. Sting quitting for example. James Mitchell and Abyss ripping off Paul Bearer and Kane, blah blah blah.

4. The god damned announce team. Someone stab them in the throat PLEASE.

5. Misuse of talent.

6. Not able to aford to do a US tour (Or just come to the west coast), yet could pay to keep Sting.

7. Messing up the Knock Out Title Picture

8. Stupid ass gimmic matches (This includes the over use of MMA)

9. To much talk about lockroom pull

10. They've cut 99% the the air time of Traci's "cookies" had.

11. To many non wrestlers randomly pop in. Though this has been a problem since the start.

12. Kip James
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Old 10-16-2008, 02:52 AM   #26
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I'd be careful on that Kip James remark. You'll soon find yourself on the bad end of the neg rep stick.
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Old 10-16-2008, 03:37 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
I'd be careful on that Kip James remark. You'll soon find yourself on the bad end of the neg rep stick.
LOL. Yep.

Hay I love Kip James, but come on...WTF are they doing with him. Misuse of a wrestler, just dosen't cover it there.
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Old 10-16-2008, 03:40 AM   #28
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Considering it's a rehash of a gimmick used 10 years ago in the WWE doesn't help either.
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Old 10-16-2008, 09:33 AM   #29
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Afterlife is a moron. I was speaking in general.
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Old 10-16-2008, 11:40 AM   #30
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First off, I'm not a fan of TNA at all. I tried back in the day and it just wasn't interesting. Too reminiscent of WCW Saturday Night. Tried watching again recently and looks like things haven't changed much. And yeah, too many gimmick matches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Afterlife View Post
TNA looks really bad -- and I mean that aesthetically. It's not a wrestling ring; the "arena" looks to be the size of a high school gym;
This would be my first complaint with TNA. 8 sided ring? C'mon..stick to what works. 4 sided ring has worked for decades.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Afterlife View Post
In short, TNA kinda looks like a public access version of American Gladiators. It's a hokey as you can get. Granted, that may be due to the fact that WWE is enormous and anything put beside it will look diminished, but still...it looks less than impressive.
Any wrestling promotion at this point that goes against the WWE is going to look bush league in many regards BUT like many have said on here, they have the talent and potential to do great things and make a significant dent in their ratings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight View Post
On the flipside, if they can't win over the community most likely to like them, maybe they don't deserve to get people from outside to jump on board?
Good point indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight View Post
So if they can't gain acceptance, maybe they just don't deserve it.
Sad but true.

I think guys like Booker T, Christian, Angle...those are guys that have been there and done that. Perhaps they don't care cos they are still getting their paychecks but day by day, whatever wrestling legacy they have will slowly diminish.

And for the record, I was never able to picture a guy like Samoa Joe as any sort of heavyweight champion. Decent wrestler but not championship material IMO.
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Old 10-16-2008, 11:57 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afterlife View Post
To clarify, I didn't lose respect for Angle because he went to TNA. Rather, I lost respect for him because he needed help -- the purpose for his suspension from WWE in the first place-- and when he had the chance to get it, he lost his mind completely and immediately started to work for TNA even after saying he would get the help he so clearly required. Since then, I've just been afraid to watch him. It's not his affiliation with the company but the way he became affiliated and what he's done to one of my previously favorite wrestlers: himself.
I figured that might have something to do with it tbh. I nearly wrote the same thing myself.
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Old 10-16-2008, 03:00 PM   #32
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I don't even have a damn clue who is face or heel.


But IMO why do I get the feeling they're about to pull a revamped version of the Millionares vs New Blood crap again with everyone taking sides about respect?
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Old 10-16-2008, 04:29 PM   #33
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Because they are
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Old 10-16-2008, 05:15 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afterlife View Post
To clarify, I didn't lose respect for Angle because he went to TNA. Rather, I lost respect for him because he needed help -- the purpose for his suspension from WWE in the first place-- and when he had the chance to get it, he lost his mind completely and immediately started to work for TNA even after saying he would get the help he so clearly required. Since then, I've just been afraid to watch him. It's not his affiliation with the company but the way he became affiliated and what he's done to one of my previously favorite wrestlers: himself.
Kurt has stated in interviews that he asked Vince McMahon for time off and a reduced schedule so he could heal himself up and Vince replied that he can't do that because the WWE "needs him." Continuing the heavy schedule, house shows, appearances, training and constant travel would've meant continuing his downward spiral into the drugs that he was using as relief from that stress and work style.

So he left WWE for TNA for a reduced schedule. Whether or not he is completely clean now, I don't know, but I do know that he does have a reduced schedule, he doesn't have to bust his ass as much, so he must be at least more mentally healthy than he was in the WWE.

The misconception that Angle left WWE because he refused to get help is just wrong.
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Old 10-16-2008, 05:26 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XL View Post
It's thinking like that that will keep TNA down. If they can't get backing from the wrestling community they ain't gonna get people from outside it to jump on board.

I've seen it a half dozen times on these boards. Most recently Foley went from being "Hardcore Legend and God" in WWE to being a piece of scum all because he joined TNA.

I agree with your point about the aesthetics though. I've been re-watching some of last years TNA PPVs and the Impact Zone just looks like ply wood. It certainly doesn't help.

We've been through the pros and cons of TNA forever. Inring they have some real talent - probably better than WWE. They also have some good promo guys. Sadly, TNA gets bogged down in over-hyped, over complicated gimmick matches. The best example of which was last year's "Fight For The Right" tournament.
I thought Foley was scum before he jumped ship.
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Old 10-16-2008, 05:28 PM   #36
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BDC: The Exception to the Rule.
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Old 10-16-2008, 06:00 PM   #37
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BDC: The Exception that proves the Rule.
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Old 10-16-2008, 11:51 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox View Post
Kurt has stated in interviews that he asked Vince McMahon for time off and a reduced schedule so he could heal himself up and Vince replied that he can't do that because the WWE "needs him." Continuing the heavy schedule, house shows, appearances, training and constant travel would've meant continuing his downward spiral into the drugs that he was using as relief from that stress and work style.

So he left WWE for TNA for a reduced schedule. Whether or not he is completely clean now, I don't know, but I do know that he does have a reduced schedule, he doesn't have to bust his ass as much, so he must be at least more mentally healthy than he was in the WWE.

The misconception that Angle left WWE because he refused to get help is just wrong.
That was somewhere between him stating that TNA was kicking WWE's ass and stating that Dixie was a better business person than Vince McMahon....

Let's take him on his word. By the way, those weren't his steroids...He was holding them for Eddie.

So...What's more believable? Guy who has been on record receiving steroids, who later got arrested for DUI, who let his life fall apart because of wrestling, who told the press he'd never stop, even if it killed him leaving on his own terms, or WWE cutting the cord on someone because they didn't want him dying on their watch?

WWE letting someone out of their contract so they could go to the competition, or WWE cutting their losses?

And why, if it was clear Angle would leave otherwise, wouldn't they work with him to arrange a lighter schedule?
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Old 10-16-2008, 11:53 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool View Post
I thought Foley was scum before he jumped ship.
He's a shill, that's for sure. Though we've had this discussion before. I still like him, despite knowing he's a complete and utter tool.

On the other hand, I don't give a shit about him in TNA, because if history is any indicator, no good can come from that path.
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Old 10-17-2008, 12:43 AM   #40
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Quote:
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Afterlife is a moron. I was speaking in general.
And you said something that has pretty much been the subtext of the entire discussion. Of course TNA doesn't deserve the ratings with the product they are putting forward. They have a fantastic selection of talent, and they logically should be able to do it. That they don't speaks for itself.
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