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Old 11-22-2006, 10:13 AM   #1
Gertner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FakeRazor
Frank Catalanotto is gonna be the steal of the offseason, I'm telling you.

i wish the jays had room for him. one of the most consistant hitters in the MLB
 
Old 11-20-2006, 09:10 PM   #2
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Wow, that Juan Pierre deal is awful. You know the market is crazy when he gets a 5-year deal for that much. There's a lot of signings happening real quick this year.
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Old 11-20-2006, 10:28 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon
Wow, that Juan Pierre deal is awful. You know the market is crazy when he gets a 5-year deal for that much. There's a lot of signings happening real quick this year.
I heard somewhere teams where gonna have a lot more money to spend this year in those previous so I'm not really surprised. Gonna be a lot of regrets down the line
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Old 11-20-2006, 09:23 PM   #4
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I love JP, but the Dodgers are dumb as fuck.
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Old 11-22-2006, 09:17 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveWadding
I love JP, but the Dodgers are dumb as fuck.
considering what players are signing for, Pierre looks like a steal.
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Old 11-20-2006, 09:29 PM   #6
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Local reports are saying that the Cubs are in serious talks with the Marlins (for D-Train).

Fuck.

If that is at all serious....
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Old 11-20-2006, 09:48 PM   #7
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Even though I know they'll never get him.
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Old 11-21-2006, 03:22 AM   #8
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He was on Texas before, why did they ever let him go? He almost won the batting title a few years back.
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Old 11-21-2006, 10:56 AM   #9
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Pierre has no power, but I don't understand why teams wouldn't fall over themselves for a guy with his abilities. If he ever got his OBP higher, he'd be such an sparkplug.
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Old 11-21-2006, 11:44 AM   #10
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Yeah Pierre is the man
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Old 11-21-2006, 12:00 PM   #11
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He plays high uality D, steals more bases than anyone in the NL, lead the NL in hits.

He is the premiere lead off hitter in the league. He just needs protection to get his OBP higher, something he gets with Nomar hitting number 2.
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Old 11-22-2006, 03:31 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewAllenHanso
He is the premiere lead off hitter in the league. He just needs protection to get his OBP higher, something he gets with Nomar hitting number 2.
You mean Nomar is going to teach him to work the count and take a fucking walk?

Also...
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2672448

Report: Matthews, Angels agree to 5-year, $50M deal

ESPN.com news services





Gary Matthews Jr. is staying in the AL West, but not with the Texas Rangers.
Gary Matthews Jr.
Center Field
Texas Rangers

Profile
2006 SEASON STATISTICS
GMHRRBIROBPAVG
1471979102.371.313

According to a report in the Los Angeles Times on Wednesday, the free-agent center fielder agreed to a five-year, $50 million deal with the Angels.
"The bottom line is everybody's pleased with the deal," Matthews' agent, Scott Leventhal, told the Times. "The fact that Gary has Los Angeles roots, to be able to play for the Angels is an absolute dream come true. He couldn't be happier."
Matthews -- who hit .313 with 19 homers, 79 RBI, 102 runs and 44 doubles and had a .371 on-base percentage last season -- made his decision after a lunch meeting Tuesday with Angels manager Mike Scioscia and GM Bill Stoneman, according to the Times.
"The opportunity to be home and to play for a winning team would be very, very attractive to me," Matthews told the Times on Tuesday. "Being a California guy, to see where the organization came from--a few years ago they weren't drawing well, and now they pack the house every night. The fans really get into it, and it's great to be in that atmosphere."



Somewhere, The Miz is laughing.
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Old 11-21-2006, 03:03 PM   #13
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Congrats to Justin Morneau, 2006 AL MVP.
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Old 11-21-2006, 03:29 PM   #14
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Morneau is pure fuckin gold he deserves it
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Old 11-21-2006, 03:34 PM   #15
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*god I hope no-one remembers me pushing Jeter for mvp*
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Old 11-21-2006, 03:58 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ct2k
*god I hope no-one remembers me pushing Jeter for mvp*
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Old 11-21-2006, 04:09 PM   #17
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Holy shit, I definately didn't see that coming.

Congrats Justin.
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Old 11-21-2006, 05:50 PM   #18
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Wow, that is incredible. I thought Jeter had it at the end of the season, but I think the way both teams ended the season worked more against Jeter than Morneau.
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Old 11-21-2006, 06:17 PM   #19
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Wow, definitely did not expect Morneau to be the MVP.
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Old 11-21-2006, 09:07 PM   #20
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Morneau, like I predicted.... I think.
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Old 11-21-2006, 09:10 PM   #21
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Yep...

Quote:
Originally Posted by YOUR Hero
I gave my vote to the Canadian, EH. I'm actually a fan of Jeter, but I don't think, in that line up, he'd be missed like an Ortiz would be or a Morneau or a Big Hurt. Know what I mean?
Me and AlphaBean were the only ones to vote for him.
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Old 11-22-2006, 02:11 AM   #22
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Hahahaa and yet, AlphaBean was wicked surprised to find out he won. Never in my wildest dreams.

SHIT YEAH BABY. Two top awards went to Twins. And the batting title, which if you count it, makes it three. OMFG.

O
M
F
G

It makes me wish we hadn't been SWEPT IN THE FIRST GODDAMN ROUND. But whatever. I'm happy for the individuals. And especially happy the Tigers, White Sox, A's, Yankees didn't win it.
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Old 11-22-2006, 02:17 AM   #23
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Wait what? You post on TPWW about baseball and don't hate the Red Sox? Weird
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Old 11-22-2006, 02:37 AM   #24
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Papi, son, how can anyone hate Papi?

I can't believe we let him go. Not athletic, can't play any positions, overweight, injury prone, strikes out too much, wants too much money.

Fuck you, Twins from 5 years ago.
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Old 11-22-2006, 03:16 AM   #25
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Anybody who thinks that Morneau was less valuable to the Twins than Mauer is an idiot. On Around the Horn today, Woody Paige said Morneau is the third most valuable person on his team.

In the TPWW AL MVP thread, I voted for Santana, but obviously pitchers are not considered in the real MVP race. Therefore, why should Morneau be hurt by that? Then Mauer, who had a great season, was nothing like Morneau. He won the batting title, but was not strong in the second half, didn't hit for power nor RBIs. I just think that is a bullshit reason, and it is sad that ESPN even uses it, because it is really just ignorant.

Based on stats alone, Morneau blew Jeter out of the water. For an ESPN analyst to not realize Morneau's numbers or his addition to the Twins division title this year is just sad. I am just glad that he won, because he definitely deserved it more than Jeter or Ortiz. Twins could have legitimately had a chance to win all four major awards had Liriano not been injured: MOY, ROY, MVP, CY.
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Old 11-22-2006, 03:27 AM   #26
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MOY? Manager?

Gardy shouldn't get it. :P

Also, shit yes, add Liriano into the mix and we would, and will be unstoppable.
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Old 11-22-2006, 11:38 AM   #27
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Oh come on, Gardy took a team flat on their backs and won the division. He must have been No. 2 in the voting.
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Old 11-22-2006, 01:49 PM   #28
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He took a team that was on its way to being elite under TK, rode it into the ground, then because we have a handful of extremely talented players, won the division.
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Old 11-22-2006, 03:35 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaBean
He took a team that was on its way to being elite under TK, rode it into the ground, then because we have a handful of extremely talented players, won the division.
Or he took a team of average nobodys that had won nothing, took them to the playoffs three years in a row, completely rehauled the team, and has perfectly developed Mauer, Morneau, Santana, Liriano, Bartlett and Nathan. The only players on this team that played under Tom Kelly were Torii Hunter and Brad Radke, FYI, and 2006 was Hunter's best season in the majors.

The Twins were supposed to be another year away from being a contender again, and were showing it. Then, by holding back on Liriano, Punto and Bartlett, Gardy put those guys in a position to be great, and the team had the best second half in baseball, a 23-year old batting champ, a 25-year old MVP that was apparently being considered in a trade straight up for Corey Koskie preseason (bullshit, but that is how high some people in the media regarded him).

Don't give me any bullshit about Mauer, Morneau and Liriano being talented. There are plenty of talented players in baseball that are called up too early, can't produce fully, and never fully develop. Look at Rocco Baldelli, AJ Burnett, Jeff Weaver, Zach Grienke, fuck, the whole Kansas City Royals team. The people who think Gardenhire was stupid for starting Bartlett in the minors and Liriano in the pen are absolute idiots.

This isn't an argument saying that Gardy had better credentials than Leyland this year, because he took a less talented team than the Twins to the World Series, but what Gardy did with all of these young players and his management of when they were ready was amazing. It is bullshit to claim that Tom Kelly had anything to do with the success of this team.
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Old 11-22-2006, 04:00 PM   #30
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Tom Kelly was the architect of the team that won the Central for like 3-4 years in a row. Each year under Gardy they got worse, but the Central got worse, too. Then, finally, they couldn't make it. This year, they made it until the playoffs, when everyone quit. I was at Game 2. Every at-bat was a Twin trying to hit a home run. Where was the game management? It was embarrassing. Regular season means nothing when what happened to us, happened.

The fact is, the roster is being managed properly and it's not exactly Gardy's position. That falls on Ryan's shoulders, and he's the one who traded away an all-star in AJ to get Liriano and Nathan, because we had Mauer. When we make trades like that, our roster gets stacked, and it's easy to "bring people along slowly." If you have no depth, you'll be forced to make a guy like Boof Bonser or Garza come in earlier than he should have... or Liriano, with his arm of putty... we had no pitching so we couldn't exactly "let people develop," as you say. I think Gardy got lucky. The team tried hard at the end of the season. But in baseball, coaching is overrated, and we'll see how the Twinks do next year.
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Old 11-22-2006, 03:49 PM   #31
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He took a team that was on its way to being elite under TK, rode it into the ground...
I didn't pick up on this the first time through. How about we take a look at this supposively "elite" team.

Where are they now?
Doug Mientkiewicz: Backup first baseman on the Royals
Luis Rivas: Devil Rays farm system
Cristian Guzman: Batted >200 and is out of the league
Corey Koskie: Starting third baseman for the Brewers
AJ Pierzynski: Starting catcher for the White Sox
Matt Lawton: Steroids, either on the Pirates or out of the league
Torii Hunter: Still on Twins, had career year batting in 2006
Jacque Jones: Starting right fielder on the Cubs
David Ortiz: (Although you could hardly say he was on this team due to injuries) DH and MVP candidate for Red Sox
Eric Milton: Third starter on the Reds
Joe Mays: Cut from the Royals
Brad Radke: Retired after 2006
Kyle Lohse: Reds starting pitcher
Eddie Guardado: Reds bullpen
LaTroy Hawkins: Orioles bullpen
Rest of bullpen: Out of league


Totals:
5 - Number of 2002 Twins that are still starting for a team
3 - Number of 2002 Twins who started for winning teams (one being Torii Hunter)
1 - 2002 player who was in the 2006 playoffs (Torii Hunter)
3 - Number of 2002 starters who are now out of the league because they were not good enough
3 - Number of division titles that these players won with Gardenhire
1 - Number of appearances these players made in the ALCS
0 - Playoff appearances under Tom Kelly (still developing, yes, but it's not like Gardy was taking over the Yankees)

The 2002-04 Twins were hardly an extremely talented team. There was good pitching, but the offense had no power hitters or even great average hitters. The lineup I posted above would have a losing record this year. The reason they were good is because they had good chemistry, which goes on to show you why most of them have been completely average outside of the Twins, and why Terry Ryan is consistantly among the top two GM's in the league.
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Old 11-22-2006, 02:58 PM   #32
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Liriano may never be the same again after all his problems are all sorted out
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Old 11-22-2006, 03:31 PM   #33
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But he might also be the same. He got traded to us for cheap because he had a bum arm... he has the whole offseason to take care of it. He was unstoppable as a rookie. I think if he rehabs fully he'll be fine.
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Old 11-22-2006, 06:06 PM   #34
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Matthews had one good season and now he's worth 10 million a year. He'll play solid defense but who knows what he'll do with the bat now that he's out of Arlington.
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Old 11-22-2006, 07:52 PM   #35
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God, I seriously can't get over how bad the Matthews Jr. signing is. 10 million a year for 5 years for a 32 year old journeyman with the following career numbers:
.263 BA, 78 HR, 315 RBI, 64 SB, .336 OBP, .419 SLG

That's over 8 seasons.

At least Juan Pierre has a pretty good track record. If Pierre can get his OBP up (just needs to walk more often, he doesn't K much), he'll be fine.
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Old 11-22-2006, 09:07 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by FakeRazor
God, I seriously can't get over how bad the Matthews Jr. signing is. 10 million a year for 5 years for a 32 year old journeyman with the following career numbers:
.263 BA, 78 HR, 315 RBI, 64 SB, .336 OBP, .419 SLG

That's over 8 seasons.

At least Juan Pierre has a pretty good track record. If Pierre can get his OBP up (just needs to walk more often, he doesn't K much), he'll be fine.
That's what one spectacular catch will do for you.
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Old 11-22-2006, 08:27 PM   #37
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I simply think that you are giving too much credit to the winning teams of 2002-04. Outside of four or five players, they were team's full of role players that were able to play great together. What happened was pretty simple, they had good seasons with the Twins, got too expensive, and now most of them are out of the league or in role playing roles for non-contending teams.

The team in 2006 was actually talented, Mauer was the first overall pick and Cuddyer and Morneau were both top prospects in the league at one point. Castillo is a veteran and better hitter than any Twins infielder from 2002-2004. Then Nathan, Santana, Liriano are among the top pitchers in the league, while Radke and the bullpen are all great as well. They came together and won faster than expected.

As for 2005, I would hardly call that running a team into the ground (even though you were clearly being sarcastic to an extent). First of all, the team finished above 500, second of all one of the team's that finished ahead of them won the World Series. With all of the young players on that team, that was not a bad season.

A lot of Minnesotans dislike Gardy, really I can't understand it. I mean maybe after Rivas and Guzman never really improved, and then the disappointing finish to 2005, but I think 2006 showed that he is not a bad manager.
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Old 11-23-2006, 06:01 PM   #38
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I simply think that you are giving too much credit to the winning teams of 2002-04. Outside of four or five players, they were team's full of role players that were able to play great together. What happened was pretty simple, they had good seasons with the Twins, got too expensive, and now most of them are out of the league or in role playing roles for non-contending teams.

The team in 2006 was actually talented, Mauer was the first overall pick and Cuddyer and Morneau were both top prospects in the league at one point. Castillo is a veteran and better hitter than any Twins infielder from 2002-2004. Then Nathan, Santana, Liriano are among the top pitchers in the league, while Radke and the bullpen are all great as well. They came together and won faster than expected.

As for 2005, I would hardly call that running a team into the ground (even though you were clearly being sarcastic to an extent). First of all, the team finished above 500, second of all one of the team's that finished ahead of them won the World Series. With all of the young players on that team, that was not a bad season.

A lot of Minnesotans dislike Gardy, really I can't understand it. I mean maybe after Rivas and Guzman never really improved, and then the disappointing finish to 2005, but I think 2006 showed that he is not a bad manager.
You just made my argument for me.

Tom Kelly had a team full of role players, he coached the shit out of players like Mientkewicz(who hated Kelly yet without Kelly Doug would be in the minor leagues still), Guzy, AJ, etc. He coached up shitty players, who we then traded for better players. Do you see what I'm saying? You're trying to get all specific on me, showing me where they are now, but you don't realize that your logic is backwards?

Tom Kelly won with a worse team. Gardy now has a better team, that was built by Tom Kelly. You think, nah, TK's players aren't here -- oh, but they are. The team became competitive, it was exciting. The players gained notoriety. Players that were awesome here became headcases and losers elsewhere. We traded Knoblauch I think for Milton, Guzman, uh wasn't Johan part of that trade? I don't remember, I just know the Knoblauch trade gave us a lot of talent, then Knobby went nuts. We built up those players, and some of them, like AJ, resulted in a lot of talent coming our way. Nathan is mentioned with the top closers in the majors. AJ got cut after we traded him. Liriano, if his arm improves, will be a stud.

What I said from the start is, you can't say that Gardy is a good coach because he had one good season. He has the fucking Cy Young and MVP. When was the last Minnesota MVP? Was there ever? The last Cy Young winner in MN was Jack Morris in 88. We had the best hitter in baseball, first time I think since Puckett. Just because players from the TK era aren't here, doesn't mean that the team wasn't built by him. But where it matters -- game management, and defense, our team has shit itself under Gardy.

Remember, also: Under TK, the Twins weren't allowed to spend any money. They have loosened up the last three years. That's why Shannon Stewart is still here, and all of our best players; if they were here 5 years ago, they'd be gone. Probably traded for prospects, prospects who will come into maturity oh, I don't know, about right now?

My brother just raised a very good point: How many playoff wins does Gardenhire have?

We won executive of the year, MVP, batting champ and Cy Young, yet got swept. What's missing? Look on startribune.com today, in the sports section. Patrick Reusse discusses the missing piece to a World Series this year: The guy who doesn't know how to coach postseason baseball.
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Old 11-22-2006, 09:16 PM   #39
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Does anybody here, besides me, hope JD Drew overplays his hand and can't get signed for the money he thinks he's worth? Now I'm all for guys getting sweetheart deals, I mean baseball is ridiculous and the owners deserve this predicament, but Drew rubs me the wrong way. Ever since he refused to sign with the Phillies and the way he carries himself... he just bugs me.
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Old 11-22-2006, 09:34 PM   #40
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Is anyone signed up to be an insider at espn.com? I was checking their rumor page and Roger Clemens' name came up. Among a few others.
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