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Old 04-12-2007, 04:44 PM   #1
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I hear a lot of "Owen was really good, it's a shame he died" stuff, but never the kind of fawning I hear online. He was solid. He was promising. He had a brilliant future ahead of him. But for all we know he might just as easily have gone to WCW after his WWF contract expired, languished in their midcard, and gone to TNA with his buddy Jarrett when it started up.

IF Goldberg didn't kick him in the head first.
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Old 04-12-2007, 04:46 PM   #2
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What year is this?
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Old 04-12-2007, 07:17 PM   #3
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BUT WE SAW HIM ON TV EVERY WEEK, AND I'M SURE THAT EVIL BASTARD VINCE MCMAHON PUSHED HIM OFF!!!!!!!!!!1111111111
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Old 04-12-2007, 07:22 PM   #4
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Well I've never been much of an Owen Hart fanboy.

I didn't care much for him while he was on the roster, but now I kinda wish he was still around, because I know eventually he probably would've made a great heel main eventer.
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Old 04-12-2007, 08:05 PM   #5
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Kurt Cobain effect or not, He was great on the mic, great in the ring, and had amazing charisma. He was an excellent talent, and is a great. Some of you people are freaking idiots.
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Old 04-12-2007, 08:12 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Company
Kurt Cobain effect or not, He was great on the mic, great in the ring, and had amazing charisma. He was an excellent talent, and is a great. Some of you people are freaking idiots.
OMG WE'RE IDIOTS BECAUSE WE HAVE OPINIONS!11!!1
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Old 04-13-2007, 03:48 AM   #7
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In all honesty, there WAS a time when he could have been a Main Eventer, and it was right after Montreal. "The Black Hart" gimmick SHOULD and god damn do I mean SHOULD have done it for him.

It didn't for 2 reasons, one somewhat understandable, the other not at all.

1. Austin didn't want to work with him again. Sad, to be honest, but it was another freak accident and it almost ended his career. I can understand that.

2. Neither Shawn NOR Hunter wanted to put him over. Pure. And. Utter. Bullshit.

To Say he should have NEVER been a Main Eventer is disingenuous. He had a moment where it would have worked, but it wasn't taken advantage of. In all honesty, I think that when his WWE Contract expired, he would have said to hell with it all and retired altogether.
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Old 04-13-2007, 09:09 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastardikai
2. Neither Shawn NOR Hunter wanted to put him over. Pure. And. Utter. Bullshit.
Not cool, certainly, but no member of the Kliq should have been working with Owen so soon after Montreal.
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Old 04-13-2007, 06:50 PM   #9
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So what people are trying to say is that if Owen Hart didn't die, he wouldn't have had fucking awesome matches with Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Rey Misterio, The Rock and Chris Jericho? And all of them became world champions.

As for him being overrated - go find some pre 1991 stuff or just watch the Bret vs. Owen matches until your heart is content.
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Old 04-16-2007, 07:15 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
So what people are trying to say is that if Owen Hart didn't die, he wouldn't have had fucking awesome matches with Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Rey Misterio, The Rock and Chris Jericho? And all of them became world champions.

As for him being overrated - go find some pre 1991 stuff or just watch the Bret vs. Owen matches until your heart is content.
Thank you.
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Old 04-16-2007, 01:24 AM   #11
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All I have to say is that I think, that Owen was a hell of a performer, and would have wanted the show to go on.
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Old 04-16-2007, 09:38 AM   #12
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If he hadn't of died he would have gone to WCW and become NWOwen
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Old 04-16-2007, 09:55 AM   #13
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I always think after-Montreal they lost a perfect opportunity to put Owen into a major storyline.

Instead he wore Yellow and Black, said "Time for a Change" and joined the Nation.
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Old 04-16-2007, 10:00 AM   #14
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To say he is the subject of a lot of internet gushing and fawning is true.

But I have to contest the claims that he never had the potential to go beyond midcard. Now, I'm not saying Owen would have ever had a lengthy run with the title, but it is not out of the question to consider that Owen could have conducted a main event feud, and/or had a caretaker reign with the big belt. Let's face it, there have been periods in the time since Owen's demise when WWE was crying out for a credible opponent for their champion of the moment. Owen could have filled that role, heel or face, more than adequately.

He's not 'the best wrestler never to hold the WWF/WCW World title' (my pick for that crown is Curt Hennig or maybe DiBiase) but he was more adaptable than simply just a midcarder.

If a bum like Bradshaw can get over in the main event after a decade of jobbing, then Owen certainly could have. All it would have taken was the right demeanor and the right storyline at the right time. No mean feat, but you can't write it off either. As it is purely speculation, and we'll never know, does it really matter?

And if people do genuinely believe Owen was due to be the "next Austin" or any other number of (probably) misjudged predictions, why knock him off their pedestals?
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Old 04-16-2007, 10:05 AM   #15
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He had the potential to get the eventual push, kinda like HHH but on a lower level.

With all the people around him being pushed, he would have gotten his due.

I still maintain that the storyline would have been excellent had he been the culprite in the Who Hit Austin storyline.

But it's all pointless really. Owen was Owen and he did great things. I say let people believe what they want to believe about where he would have gone with his career, but it matters very little since his legacy is enough to be remembered for already. I'm sure his family and friends aren't worried about what kind of push he would have recieved, they just want their loved one back. Often times we view these great performers as something more or less than normal, but they're people. I think we should just be happy with what we got and to me it's always kinda seemed kinda off putting for people (nobody in specific) to say "I wish Owen was still around, he'd have great matches and finally have gotten a push". That's not really the right line of thinking when theres a family and children who wish he was still around so he could be the man they knew and loved. And that's not kayfabe, it's a true life heartbreaking swerve.
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Old 04-16-2007, 11:59 AM   #16
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No way would have been a huge star in the level Rock, Taker and Austin. I'd put HHH, Cena and Foley a level below those guys but he could have easily been on the level of Jericho, Benoit, Michaels, Misterio, etc just purely on the quality of matches he would have had with those guys. Remember for like a 3 year spell, those guys couldn't have anyless less than a *** match. Owen was in their level of worker.
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Old 04-16-2007, 12:23 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
No way would have been a huge star in the level Rock, Taker and Austin. I'd put HHH, Cena and Foley a level below those guys but he could have easily been on the level of Jericho, Benoit, Michaels, Misterio, etc just purely on the quality of matches he would have had with those guys. Remember for like a 3 year spell, those guys couldn't have anyless less than a *** match. Owen was in their level of worker.
curious as to how you haven't put HBK on the same level as Taker. I would generally consider Rock and Austin to be top tier with taker and michaels on a fairly similar position.

Anyway, just an aside note
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Old 04-16-2007, 12:25 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
curious as to how you haven't put HBK on the same level as Taker. I would generally consider Rock and Austin to be top tier with taker and michaels on a fairly similar position.

Anyway, just an aside note
The entire company has never rotated around Michaels the way it has around Rock, Austin, and Taker. He's been the center and the champion, but he never dominated the entire WWF/E like those other 3 did.
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Old 04-16-2007, 12:51 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
curious as to how you haven't put HBK on the same level as Taker. I would generally consider Rock and Austin to be top tier with taker and michaels on a fairly similar position.

Anyway, just an aside note
Taker drew good money on top as champion. Michaels didn't. Undertaker is a bigger household name than Michaels.
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Old 04-16-2007, 01:09 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
Taker drew good money on top as champion. Michaels didn't. Undertaker is a bigger household name than Michaels.
Perhaps but you can't group him with undercard guys and not up with HHH and Foley.
As for the drawing of money, he was champion at a time when the company was in the gutter. Maybe overall he wasn't drawing money as big as the champion of the company when the overall product was big, but when you think about it he was the only draw on the card when champion in 96. What else did the company or the fans have other than the string of title defenses of HBK in 1996? He was huge for them at a time period where Bret was out of action, Austin wasn't quite over yet, and Hall and Nash were gone.
The occasions in which Taker was champion were at times when the product was on top, or in 97 when the product was on the rise and putting on a more quality show.

I know you have more facts than me, but I'm sure Michaels was drawing as champion in his third reign in 97-98 when he was leader of Degeneration X. And his main event with Austin, which as over as Austin was, was unquestionably instrumental in his skyrocketing popularity.
Michaels is a pretty well known name. He's HBK. He's of course not on the level of Austin and Rock, or not the household name that is the Undertaker, but he's a pretty big name.
I think it's a blatant misgrouping if you put him on par with Benoit and Jericho(circa2000) and rank him below HHH.

I'm not questioning your motives, but you do seem to dislike HBK immensely.
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Old 04-16-2007, 04:19 PM   #21
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It's like this:

Austin/Hogan/Piper
Rock
Bret/Taker/HBK/Savage
and then the rest...
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Old 04-16-2007, 04:52 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeritron
Perhaps but you can't group him with undercard guys and not up with HHH and Foley.
As for the drawing of money, he was champion at a time when the company was in the gutter. Maybe overall he wasn't drawing money as big as the champion of the company when the overall product was big, but when you think about it he was the only draw on the card when champion in 96. What else did the company or the fans have other than the string of title defenses of HBK in 1996? He was huge for them at a time period where Bret was out of action, Austin wasn't quite over yet, and Hall and Nash were gone.
The occasions in which Taker was champion were at times when the product was on top, or in 97 when the product was on the rise and putting on a more quality show.

I know you have more facts than me, but I'm sure Michaels was drawing as champion in his third reign in 97-98 when he was leader of Degeneration X. And his main event with Austin, which as over as Austin was, was unquestionably instrumental in his skyrocketing popularity.
Michaels is a pretty well known name. He's HBK. He's of course not on the level of Austin and Rock, or not the household name that is the Undertaker, but he's a pretty big name.

I think it's a blatant misgrouping if you put him on par with Benoit and Jericho(circa2000) and rank him below HHH.

I'm not questioning your motives, but you do seem to dislike HBK immensely.
HHH and Foley drew far better on top. Michaels was champ during a bad time yes. So was Bret Hart and he drew fine. Michaels was also the champ after he came back and the numbers still weren't any better from when he won the title to when he lost it.

During his DX era, Michaels barely worked. He did 3 PPVs and next to no TV or house shows. 2 of those PPV's, the draws were Austin and Tyson.

As for me hating him, I don't hate anyone. And you have obviously missed all my posts over the last few years when I did nothing but praise his work since his comeback.
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Old 04-16-2007, 06:48 PM   #23
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I see your point, but you keep putting everything on external factors. He was a terrible draw because of this situation over here and that situation over there. If people like who's on top, they will watch the show no matter how shitty the card might be. You need to point the fingers at the guy on top and not the situations around him. He can control his own situation and not others.
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Old 04-16-2007, 06:53 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
I see your point, but you keep putting everything on external factors. He was a terrible draw because of this situation over here and that situation over there. If people like who's on top, they will watch the show no matter how shitty the card might be. You need to point the fingers at the guy on top and not the situations around him. He can control his own situation and not others.
Not everybodys Austin or Hogan. Doesn't mean they can't be solid draws. On paper Shawn wasn't a huge draw in 96, but in reality he was doing big things for that company.
He's also pretty well known, to adress the other accusation that he's not a big name. Once again, he's not Hogan or Austin, but he's up there.
The company was just overall shit and it's unfair to say that doesn't matter because he should draw the same anyways. Come on now.
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Old 04-16-2007, 10:57 PM   #25
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People always use the "Piper had to be a great heel for Hogan to draw as a great face" line, but the Hogan/Piper run was pretty short, and while Piper was off having boxing matches and making movies, Hogan continued to draw bigger and better than ever.

Piper was important to the "kick start", no doubt, but too many people try to give Piper full credit for the creation of Hogan. Hogan was already the fastest rising, biggest drawing name in the business (bar maybe Bruno) before he ever went to work for Vince Jr. while in the AWA.

As for Undertaker... he is a level above Michaels. Taker was one half of the main event of the biggest drawing SummerSlam of all time, the "Highway To Hell".
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Old 04-16-2007, 10:58 PM   #26
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By the way, why would WWE give Owen Hart an Intercontinental title run as a "send off" in the middle of the Monday Night Wars? Whilst he was performing a "punishment gimmick" too... some kind of punishment!

They were far too petty to do that.
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Old 04-16-2007, 11:04 PM   #27
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That is a pretty fucking retarded claim.
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Old 04-16-2007, 11:18 PM   #28
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Come on, Guys, it's Zen. Nobody takes him seriously on anything related to Canada or Nirvana.
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Old 04-16-2007, 11:22 PM   #29
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You've been KKK'd
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Come on, Guys, it's Zen. Nobody takes him seriously on anything related to Canada or Nirvana.
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Old 04-16-2007, 11:22 PM   #30
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Wow.
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Old 04-16-2007, 11:24 PM   #31
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Good thing Zen keeps the Hart cock in his mouth. He needs his hands free.
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Old 04-16-2007, 11:29 PM   #32
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I believe The One is correct on everything he said EXCEPT the IC title run.

BTW, Owen was my favourite wrestler, loved him when he was a high flyer, loved with when he came back after knee surgury as a technical wreslter. Loved his ring work, loved his off beat style. I would have liked to see him (as my favourite) get a title run, but that wasn't in the cards... even if he was the King of H(e)arts.
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Old 04-16-2007, 11:56 PM   #33
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I think it's pretty obvious Owen was far better than HHH. Take a look at them during their time together, and while Hunter was doing nothing at all memorable, Owen was putting on the best tag matches and the best singles matches not involving either Bret or HBK. And when Hunter started to make his rise up the ranks, guess who he dealt with? Owen Hart. Owen made Hunter look better in the ring and out of the ring.

As a wrestler there isnt a comparison. As a performer, sure you can compare.
But there's a rather substantial divide in terms of talent among Owen and Hunter as wrestlers.

HHH has basically been lucky in that he got to carry HBK's ballsack for a while, otherwise he'd still be toiling in hell as an american blueblood. After that, he worked with better talents then he was, but had HBK's political power to help him from having to job out to them.

And then, he fucking gets with the boss' daughter in order to keep himself on top of cards, where he has no reason being for such an extended amount of time. He has 10 title reigns, and about 8 or so too many.

The guy is one of the most overrated sacks of shit the business has ever seen.
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Old 04-17-2007, 12:45 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen v.W.o.
I think it's pretty obvious Owen was far better than HHH. Take a look at them during their time together, and while Hunter was doing nothing at all memorable, Owen was putting on the best tag matches and the best singles matches not involving either Bret or HBK. And when Hunter started to make his rise up the ranks, guess who he dealt with? Owen Hart. Owen made Hunter look better in the ring and out of the ring.

As a wrestler there isnt a comparison. As a performer, sure you can compare.
But there's a rather substantial divide in terms of talent among Owen and Hunter as wrestlers.

HHH has basically been lucky in that he got to carry HBK's ballsack for a while, otherwise he'd still be toiling in hell as an american blueblood. After that, he worked with better talents then he was, but had HBK's political power to help him from having to job out to them.

And then, he fucking gets with the boss' daughter in order to keep himself on top of cards, where he has no reason being for such an extended amount of time. He has 10 title reigns, and about 8 or so too many.

The guy is one of the most overrated sacks of shit the business has ever seen.
Again, I don't know if this is a joke or not.

In 1999, I'd say Owen Hart and HHH were about the same ability wise. HHH fucking took off after this. He slacked later but in 2000, he was the best wrestler in the world. Owen might have gotten mad better too but there's no way you can say he was worlds better than HHH. And despite how HHH got his push, the bottom line is he got it and he ran with it. And now he is one of the legit top 10 draws of all time.
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Old 04-16-2007, 11:58 PM   #35
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I'm tuning up the band...
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Old 04-17-2007, 12:34 AM   #36
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Wow this level of fanboyism is really adding some suckitude to this place.
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