So I showed a bunch of marks some ROH this week

Originally Posted by Indifferent Clox I think people would at least throw the word 'fake' around a lot less and the word 'artistic combat' or some other phrase around a lot more

I almost want to post this in the Casual Forum.

Clox, I HIGHLY doubt that.

[Rammsteinmad]

Lol 'artistic combat'. I actually laughed at that.

lol me too. I almost swallowed my dip.

[Indifferent Clox]

I'm probably wrong. I just find it very odd that people always bash the style and say it's too complex for the 'southern style'/ showman fans and yet pretty much everybody who i've let see it likes it more than WWE.

I feel like a lot of times here in america best= most popular, whether it's movies, books, games, music, wrestling, comics, etc. people seem to have this ideal that everything that is popular is where it is because it's the best.

I think this stems from our political layout, but even using that as a standard is faulty. We have two parties both of which most people have issue with and yet we'd rather continue fighting over them than to try anything drastic or new.

I think this delves more into philosophy than pro wrestling though, dunno.

[Rammsteinmad]

I dunno. I'm off to engage in some artistic combat with a passerby.

Yes Clox, Indy wrestling is far too complex for our imbred minds to comprehend.

[Rammsteinmad]

Indy Artistic Combating.

Sport's Entertainmenting.

The entire wrestling world is changing around us.

[MoFo]

ROH need more promos and less wrestling

[Jeritron]

Why don't you show them Shawn Michaels and Undertaker

Best doesnt have to equal Most popular - look at Bieber. He certainly isnt the best.

But Spot Fests with a bunch of 20 somethings that live in their parents basements all chanting stupid shit over and over....Also isnt the best.

Honestly ROH is to the WWE as The Strokes are to Good Music.

Originally Posted by Riker Honestly ROH is to the WWE as The Strokes are to Good Music.

A scathing critique of the Strokes. They have been put on notice!

Originally Posted by Gertner A scathing critique of the Strokes. They have been put on notice!

Yes, they should fear me and my wrestle board thoughts. Look out ROH too!

I dont like the strokes. Most people dont. But they have a loyal fan base that wants to push them off onto everyone else.

Shoe Fits. Less about Strokes hate, and more about Douches spreading their favorite stuff.

I have Bieber fever.

[Razzamajazz]

wwe isn't a wrestling company duh

[Indifferent Clox]

The strokes suck now though

"I" wasn't saying that "I" think southern style fans wouldn't understand it, i've just been told that by other people in the business.

[Indifferent Clox]

It's more like animal collective or maybe radiohead.

WWE is like Michael Jackson, everyone knows it whether they've actually listened/ watched the product or not and there is somehting for everyone.

ECW was like Nirvana, changed wrestling entirely but now everyone acts like they always loved it even though half the people werent even alive when it came out.

ROH is like indie rock yes, more complex than mainstream. I wouldn't say it'd be a specific band though because there are so many unique styles within ring of honor, it's like radiohead probably, very diverse styalistically.

but any of these comparisons are faulty.

So kicking out of 1000 finishers and no selling is complex? ARE YOU CALLING ME DUMB SON!!!!!

[Indifferent Clox]

That's a very stereotypical way to look at a show with a bunch of matches that are nothing like that.

What was Mike Tyson's finisher? the overhand right? anyway sometimes he'd use it once, sometimes he'd have to use it 10 or 11 times. I think people use WWE as the standard for which all wrestling should be based, and thus ROH can kinda seem kind of overboard at times by comparison. Not every ROH match is better than every WWE match or vice versa, But there are great matches by both companies.

I don't think you need to kick out of 15 or 16 different finishers to have a good match in fact maybe 2. But I like interesting chaining, a false finish maybe, some moves where I'm like "how the fuck did they do that?", some strong strikes to the point where you realize the dudes putting his body on the line, I mean look at most Danielson matches, they aren't full of 1000 kick outs, they just have a lot of great mat work, a lot of creative turns on cliches, just stuff you don't see every day.

Now of course one day in the future if wwe does ever take on a different style of wrestling and not try to compact it into their box, some other form of wrestling that's different will come along and I'll be having this same discussion, only maybe then i'll be in your shoes, dunno.

Using boxing in your comparison is ridiculous Clox. lol boxers don't have finishers.

[Indifferent Clox]

What I mean is people have a thing called adrenaline, and sometimes when they get hit enough shit stops hurting as much, wwe never really took this into account except for Hogan's no sell leading to his finisher. I think it's less realistic to have one move that always puts people out than to possibly have to try a bunch of moves. it also, from a fan point of view, leads to more surprises, sure you know the match is gonna end but... when and how? in wwe it's almost always as soon as someone hits their finisher.

It makes it mean more if a wrestler kicks out of it.

[Indifferent Clox]

I'm not saying get rid of showman style, I'm not using the 'either' 'or' approach, I am taking the "both/and" approach. I think both styles can pull out classic matches, I'd just like to see WWE utilize both rather than try to bastardize any given genre of 'artistic combat'

[Indifferent Clox]

I guess it all depends on if you want to get the finisher over or the worker over. Just because someone didn't get knocked out by Tyson's KO blow didn't make that overhand right any less deadly.

But I digress, You don't have to use the same finisher you're whole career. King's road style, they use a finisher untill it doesn't work, then they move on to the next, and sometimes in a huge match they may pull out one of their old ifnishers followed by their newest and when that doesn't work pull out one from somewhere in the middle to get the win.

[seapig4]

I'm sorry Clox, but saying that Tyson had a finisher is one of the most fucktarded things i've ever read.

You've lost track of your opening point and are now drowing in a pool of drool.

[Indifferent Clox]

He usually tried to knock people out with the overhand right

[seapig4]

Originally Posted by Indifferent Clox He usually tried to knock people out with the overhand right

No. He tried to knock people out.

[The Jayman]

and occasionally would bite your ear off

[seapig4]

Originally Posted by The Jayman and occasionally would bite your ear off

Only when he was hungry

[The Jayman]

well all that boxing works up an appetite

So Clox is either a legit pro - or some white trash loser.

Im leaning toward the latter

[Hanso Amore]

Originally Posted by Riker So Clox is either a legit pro - or some white trash loser. Im leaning toward the latter

Pretty observant.

Clox knows THE BUSINESS and people IN THE BUSINESS.

[Indifferent Clox]

A legit pro faker or a legit pro artistic combatant?

[BigDaddyCool]

What is the difference between ROH and Justin Bieber

SPOILER: show

People know who Justin Bieber is

[Jordan]

They don't wrestle like that anymore anyway, Grizzly Redwood? Are you serious?

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think the reason people probably comes down to the style the guys work, it being less "staged" and less "cartoony" in general. That's not a criticism of the WWE or me blowing ROH, but they're two different subgenres of professional wrestling, in a way.

ROH would be better off keeping track of wins and losses, providing finishes out of nowhere, random upsets (like Edwards beating Strong for the ROH World Title, which I totally called) and all that sort of stuff. Not to mimic MMA, but to sort of get on that same wave-length.

If the WWE started doing that, then I think they would lose a lot of ground. The obvious comparisons between professional wrestling and MMA would be drawn (one is fake and the other is not), and it'd just be a huge failure like the XFL. Besides, the WWE has some of the best wrestlers in the world under contract. Guys that ROH would murder to get (back).

That being said, ROH is probably the best alternative to the WWE out there. If you feel dumb watching the WWE and it's obvious patterns and safe-marketed approach -- then ROH provides something more unchained for your viewing tastes. They just need to get themselves out there more, and perhaps get some of their guys some more air-time somewhere.

ROH can't present themselves like the WWE and be anywhere near as successful. I think ROH is more likely to find niche success with a different way of getting their product out there. DVDs are probably the best option. They come with replayability and you can crash more than a measly hour into there (an hour for ROH to present anything is cutting it fine). They don't need to tour in huge arenas, or anything like that, but they should work on their presentation and really make it seem like they are going for a small, intimate arena -- but it just shouldn't look like crap.

ROH has its problems, but I want them to succeed, and if they had the money that TNA had, I think they would be doing a better job.

[Seth82]

ROH was actually a fun to promotion to watch

I haven't seen stuff from the last few yrs but I like Ring of Honor

They're much better then TNA

[Kane Knight]

Oh dear, this thread is priceless.

[Indifferent Clox]

ROH is actually more staged than pre-2003 wwe but less than wwe now. IE they have a ring where they can work shit out at any time, and there isnt as much walking and talking. But remembering those spots is an art all its own.