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Old 06-05-2013, 08:24 PM   #1
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Cruiserweights were treated like a joke until the WWE dropped the division. It used to break my heart.
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Old 06-05-2013, 08:28 PM   #2
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Cruiserweights were treated like a joke until the WWE dropped the division. It used to break my heart.
... Tyson Kidd was my example. Do you really think he'd be treated worse simply because he's fighting for a title against someone like Justin Gabriel?
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:56 PM   #3
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lots of CSL mentions over the last few pages, I like it #slag
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Old 06-05-2013, 10:48 PM   #4
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By the way, we'll be pulling in people here and there to do the podcast as guest hosts. If you'd like in, private message me your skype info.
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Old 06-05-2013, 10:54 PM   #5
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By the way, we'll be pulling in people here and there to do the podcast as guest hosts. If you'd like in, private message me your skype info.
well that's Seth82 out
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Old 06-05-2013, 10:50 PM   #6
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Not you, #1-wwf-fan.
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Old 06-05-2013, 10:51 PM   #7
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Actually, that might be fun.
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Old 06-05-2013, 11:07 PM   #8
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I agree with most of the other stuff that was discussed. I'm afraid you would not get the heated debates you assume you would with me.
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Old 06-05-2013, 11:47 PM   #9
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Special Randy Orton Edition Featuring Hashtag 1-wwf-fan
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Old 06-06-2013, 02:35 AM   #10
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Loopydate wants in for Episode 3. He's in. Look forward to that. Should be good. Anyone else that would like to pop in on a future episode let us know. Do understand that we reserve the right to decline but I'm thinking we won't have to do that unless its a poster that is a known sock or troll. And even then, it might be fun to toy around with a situation like that.
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Old 06-06-2013, 04:01 AM   #11
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I kinda want Noid to be part of these podcasts but at the same time I don't want them to be 17 hours long
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Old 06-06-2013, 04:06 AM   #12
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Noid is sex.
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Old 06-06-2013, 04:38 AM   #13
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Noid would be good for an armchair booking edition. We mostly stick to what's happening on the screen, rather than what would happen if Doug Basham and Alex Riley had backstage pull.
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Old 06-06-2013, 04:57 AM   #14
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TPWW Tables, Ladders, & Podcast (June 6, 2013)
Covering a few news items, Impact, Smackdown, Slammiversary, and Raw.



Link to the Zema Ion surgery fundraiser that we discussed a bit: https://www.giveforward.com/fundraiser/6hd2/zematna

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hope it isn't man sauce
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You know what I really hate? CLAMS
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Savior is in ron the denial about losing in King of the Forum last year
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lice infected Puerto Rican transvestites? sounds like you speak from experience.
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titties? where?
Last edited by NoJabbaNoBogRoll; 06-06-2013 at 05:21 AM.
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Old 06-06-2013, 09:50 AM   #15
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Listened to about 40 minutes of this just, on the way out but TNA's main events are way ahead of WWE and Randy Orton can't sell? Think that came from Afterlife. Oofah.
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Old 06-06-2013, 09:59 AM   #16
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Yes, that came from me. Should I assume you disagree?
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Old 06-06-2013, 10:21 AM   #17
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yup. And the complaint about the finisher thing was a bit ridiculous as well until Jabba spoke up. And the Sheamus White Noise/setup stuff, dunno, it's like you go out of your way to make some daft complaints about certain individuals despite a lot of these things being standard practices in televised pro wrestling in it's current form/style for decades.
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Old 06-06-2013, 10:24 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by CSL View Post
yup. And the complaint about the finisher thing was a bit ridiculous as well until Jabba spoke up. And the Sheamus White Noise/setup stuff, dunno, it's like you go out of your way to make some daft complaints about certain individuals despite a lot of these things being standard practices in televised pro wrestling in it's current form/style for decades.
I wasn't complaining strictly about Sheamus using two back-to-back finishers, I was complaining about the practice in general.

Which other "finisher thing" do you mean?
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Old 06-06-2013, 10:25 AM   #19
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yup.
Also, thanks for not going into any details or anything.
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Old 06-06-2013, 10:30 AM   #20
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as I said I'm on my way out. If you want me to do that, I can respond in detail later. And the other finisher thing in the sense that "a finisher should be used when necessary", which couldn't really be further from reality in sense of how you structure a match (at least one that you want the people watching to get as "involved in" as possible) and then Jabba brings up (paraphrasing) "you should always be looking to hit it" which is pretty much spot on.
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Old 06-06-2013, 10:39 AM   #21
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as I said I'm on my way out. If you want me to do that, I can respond in detail later. And the other finisher thing in the sense that "a finisher should be used when necessary", which couldn't really be further from reality in sense of how you structure a match (at least one that you want the people watching to get as "involved in" as possible) and then Jabba brings up (paraphrasing) "you should always be looking to hit it" which is pretty much spot on.
Looking to hit a finisher is not the opposite of using them when necessary. That kind of goes right back to Sheamus doing two definitive finishers back to back for no reason, as well as Whereman's take on "psychology" as a whole.

That said, of course, I'd always much rather people give their input with actual detail than just something (no disrespect) useless like "oofah". "Oofah" doesn't teach me anything.
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Old 06-07-2013, 08:46 AM   #22
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I wasn't complaining strictly about Sheamus using two back-to-back finishers, I was complaining about the practice in general.
it's like a lot of other things in wrestling, it's one of those moments where you have to suspend your disbelief a little bit for the sake of why he's doing it. When HBK would come off the top with the elbow, do his little fire up dance schtick and go to the corner to start "tuning up the band", the crowd come up. If he goes straight to a nearfall after the elbow, he loses that "momentum" going to his finish/you bring them down. It's like a "oh shit, we know what's coming now" once it's been done, like Hogan hitting the big boot. I personally can't say that I'd even noticed that Sheamus does this, don't watch anywhere near enough of the current product and theoretically/ideally, it'd be the other way round (the boot then the White Curse) but when you've gotten something over in that sense/people are expecting to see something, you don't mess with it

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Looking to hit a finisher is not the opposite of using them when necessary. That kind of goes right back to Sheamus doing two definitive finishers back to back for no reason, as well as Whereman's take on "psychology" as a whole.
I didn't strictly mean "the direct opposite", just pointing out the gulf between the two. The babyface always teasing/building towards/getting stopped from hitting his finish until he finally gets it is one of the more important parts of structuring a match, especially if it's a "commodity"/people are looking to see that move
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Old 06-06-2013, 11:54 AM   #23
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and then Jabba brings up (paraphrasing) "you should always be looking to hit it" which is pretty much spot on.
If you've perfected a move to the point that it pretty much always puts your opponent down for three, then you should probably be looking to hit it whenever the opportunity arises.

However, your opponent also knows this, so it shouldn't be possible to successfully hit your finisher in every match, when your opponent is looking out for it.

This is why I have a problem with the whole "I'm heading up top, uncharacteristically, so that I can dive towards Randy Orton, neck first" thing.
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Old 06-06-2013, 07:57 PM   #24
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If you've perfected a move to the point that it pretty much always puts your opponent down for three, then you should probably be looking to hit it whenever the opportunity arises.

However, your opponent also knows this, so it shouldn't be possible to successfully hit your finisher in every match, when your opponent is looking out for it.

This is why I have a problem with the whole "I'm heading up top, uncharacteristically, so that I can dive towards Randy Orton, neck first" thing.
The first time I ever saw someone do a dive into a wrestler's standard finisher was when Shelton Benjamin did a springboard into Shawn Michaels' Sweet Chin Music in the opening round of the Gold Rush Tournament in 2004. I think it may have been the first time Shawn Michaels wore his baggy pants, as an added bit of trivia.

That spot was amazing and made everyone stand up because Shelton was going for his springboard clothesline, which he regularly did. It was believable that he was going for that move on HBK to try and finish him off, that HBK knew it was coming, and that the kick could lead to the finish.

Since then, we've seen the spot repeated, and it often does make me wonder why someone would try lunging head-first at Orton for the first time in their career. There have been moments where Orton has hit awesome RKOs from guys flying at him. Seth Rollins and CM Punk at WrestleMania XXVI and WrestleMania XXIX both come to mind, because they both hit springboard moves from time-to-time.

I'm not sure where they had their second match, but Shawn Michaels defeated Kurt Angle with Sweet Chin Music after Angle came off the top rope with an axe handle attempt, which is something Angle almost never does. Those are two of the best ever. So maybe my pet peeve with this is merely that -- my own. I will suggest that when something uncharacteristic like this happens, that should be the job of the commentators to convey to the audiences.

"Angle is going to the top rope because HBK has kicked out of everything else Angle has."

Suddenly, as an audience, we have a reason to believe that Angle, who does go for moonsaults occasionally, would be flying in with an axe handle on HBK. A lot of the time the commentators just go "Look at this! Whoa!" I think even referees could help sell these sort of moments by looking a bit confused as to what this wrestler is doing, since they normally don't act in that manner.

I guess what I am trying to say is: This bothers me too, but there is a certain psychology behind a guy trying out something new in a tough match -- especially if his opponent knows him so well and is so resourceful. This should be where the commentators, who should be immersed in the product, are able to convey that story. I'm not taking pot-shots at any commentator in particular -- Michael Cole, for example, actually does this far more than he's given credit for -- but that is why they are there and that is a way that good announcing can raise a match.
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Old 06-07-2013, 08:52 AM   #25
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If you've perfected a move to the point that it pretty much always puts your opponent down for three, then you should probably be looking to hit it whenever the opportunity arises.

However, your opponent also knows this, so it shouldn't be possible to successfully hit your finisher in every match, when your opponent is looking out for it.

This is why I have a problem with the whole "I'm heading up top, uncharacteristically, so that I can dive towards Randy Orton, neck first" thing.
I agree with the "your opponent knows this" part but people are paying to see these things, you can't send them home empty handed. In an ideal world, that'd be great. Although that could be a nice addition to some variety of feud somewhere, the heel knows the babyface so well that he always manages to avoid finish, have the announcers play on that and so forth and once he finally hits it in "the blowoff match", done properly with the right person, it could get whatever that move is over huge.

Completely with you on the last part however, I think I was the only person that wasn't at all a fan of Bourne's SSP into the RKO for example and that one even made sense given it was Bourne's finish, I just don't think it looked very good/required a little bit too much "suspension of disbelief" although some are great, Punk's springboard into the RKO for example) I understand why they do it however, people eat that stuff up and the name of the game is "make them yell loudest for longest". Misguided/warped takes on that are the reason so much indy wrestling is just horrific
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Old 06-06-2013, 10:41 AM   #26
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but come on, "oofah" is a fun word I'll be back on later/carry on listening.
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Old 06-06-2013, 10:53 AM   #27
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This is true enough.
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Old 06-06-2013, 10:59 AM   #28
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Some of TNAs stuff is pretty r efreshing in comparison to WWE, tbh. I'm not completely sold but I mean, the "loltna" days are probably over soon. Yeah, we give WWE a little tough love in this episode but we have some good things to say about the product as well. The Shield stuff and rhe Daniel Bryan stuff is on fire lately. The Curtis Axel thing puts a bad taste in my mouth at the moment, but its not like we didn't know they were going to try to ruin him before he even got a chance.
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Old 06-06-2013, 11:08 AM   #29
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Didn't listen to the podcast but I hope you guys don't think you can go from legit Jobber to legit Main Eventer that fast.
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Old 06-06-2013, 11:25 AM   #30
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Didn't listen to the podcast but I hope you guys don't think you can go from legit Jobber to legit Main Eventer that fast.
Well, yeah. You kind of can. Or at least you can make people care. Think back to when Carlito made his debut and beat John Cena on his first night. That created buzz righr off the bat and made you be like "whoa, who is this fuck?" If Curtis Axel had come in and legit bat Triple H, it would've set the wrestling world on fire. Trips couldve still had his headache to save face.

I guess my biggest gripe about this is why do you go through all the trouble to give this guy prime TV spots and give him Heyman as a promo man if you don't want him to actually beat anybody. They protect people far too much. If you want the guy to be a big deal, make him a big deal. There is no way around having a guy beat top competition if you want him to be big. There just isn't. I wish there was, but there isn't.
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Old 06-06-2013, 11:15 AM   #31
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I don't follow.
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Old 06-06-2013, 11:18 AM   #32
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If I remember correctly last PC guys you were saying Curtis should have got the clean win over Cena.
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Old 06-06-2013, 11:22 AM   #33
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He should have. (I didn't know you meant Axel.)
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Old 06-06-2013, 11:30 AM   #34
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He should have. (I didn't know you meant Axel.)
Agree to disagree then.
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Old 06-06-2013, 11:36 AM   #35
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Well he's beating Sin Cara on Smackdown, their biggest problem is that Heels hold all the Secondary titles. If Kofi still had the US title or if Miz wins the IC title that should be the next target for Axel.
He doesn't need a title, he needs a legitimate win. Beating Sin Cara means virtually nothing while trying to set him up as a top guy -- kind of like two count-outs that could have been real victories.

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Agree to disagree then.
No. Tell me WHY you disagree.
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Old 06-06-2013, 02:17 PM   #36
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If I remember correctly last PC guys you were saying Curtis should have got the clean win over Cena.
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He should have. (I didn't know you meant Axel.)
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Old 06-06-2013, 11:29 AM   #37
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Well he's beating Sin Cara on Smackdown, their biggest problem is that Heels hold all the secondary titles. If Dean loses the US title or if Miz wins the IC title that should be the next target for Axel. He can be built up, he's holding his own with Cena, that a pretty good rub right there. And you are right they should have played up that he beat HHH.
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Old 06-06-2013, 11:35 AM   #38
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Well he's beating Sin Cara on Smackdown, their biggest problem is that Heels hold all the Secondary titles. If Kofi still had the US title or if Miz wins the IC title that should be the next target for Axel.
Well, they are making a point to say this guy is the next big deal and they are putting him in main events. If they want us to take him as a main eventer, he needs to beat main eventers. Thats my take. I just hate how they're always so afraid to make guys a big deal but they want you to treat them like a big deal anyway. Its frustrating.
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Old 06-06-2013, 11:39 AM   #39
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Its to early for a main event spot for him right now, the general fan isn't buying it, perhaps after a lengthy IC title run that opportunity can open.
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Old 06-06-2013, 11:44 AM   #40
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Yeah, maybe an IC title reign would do. I'm just saying, if he isn't ready, then he shouldn't be main eventing and being pushed as the second coming of Mr. Perfect. They are sending us the message of "hey, you need to care about this guy right now," but booking is telling us another story.
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