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#1 |
Feeling Oof-y
Posts: 17,151
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That's a totally different issue.
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#2 |
Cranky Kong
Posts: 78,671
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All I'm really pecking at is that Christian is obviously a heel, but his character isn't resonating as such for various reasons.
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#3 |
RAPTURE READY.
Posts: 31,936
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he's the same CLB as he was in the early 2000s
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#4 |
Feeling Oof-y
Posts: 17,151
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I'll take this over a carbon-copy heel any day.
Either way, I'd bet on Christian cheating to win the belt at MitB. |
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#5 |
reeking of awesomeness
Posts: 447
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I think this version of him is more carbon copy. Mainly b/c he's stuck between not fully turning heel and not getting a strong reaction. I just hope since the contract signing went well for him, he'll actually win this time. Would sure make this fued more interesting.
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#6 |
Feeling Oof-y
Posts: 17,151
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I think you're confused as to what "carbon copy" means.
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#7 |
reeking of awesomeness
Posts: 447
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"Carbon copy" would be a cheap ripoff, which I think adequately describes his whole heel turn now. They need a replacement for Edge, so let's replace him with Christian. That would work, if WWE truly got 100% behind him being a top star. Obviously, Vince doesn't believe that...
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#8 |
Feeling Oof-y
Posts: 17,151
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"Carbon Copy" means exactly the same.
As in, most of WWE's heels are "chicken shits" that cheat to win and tend to run away from the face. Or they're egomaniacs. Or both. And you often hear that fact bemoaned here on this forum. Now we're moaning that a guy isn't using those tactics to get over as a heel. And honestly, I don't see any parallels between Edge and Christian as heels. |
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#9 | |
Cranky Kong
Posts: 78,671
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Quote:
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#10 | |
reeking of awesomeness
Posts: 447
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Quote:
That was basically my point in a nutshell. There's nothing wrong with being a shade of grey character wise, but he's not a believable heel. All due to him not using any of the usual ways to get over as a heel. I definately like Christian, as he's probably IMO the best complete wrestler on SD. But, compared to his 2005 heel run, this one looks like a total flop. |
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#11 |
reeking of awesomeness
Posts: 447
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Well, aren't you the genius. Oh, that's right, you're a poster on a wrestling forum, not a rocket scientist. Forgot for a minute and thought I actually cared what you think. My bad.
What you call a "carbon copy" has pretty much been the blue print for heels in the wresting industry since it's conception. To a very high success rate I might add. I get that what's going on with Christian is different, but it clearly isn't working for him. So obviously the majority of fans need to see that "chicken shit" or cheating to win to boo him. It surely made him more successful back in 2005 when his reactions were overwhelming and more appropriate for a heel. I hate conforming to streotypes as much as anyone, but in this case, what other option is there? B/c being that in between heel hasn't made him the face of SD yet, And I didn't parallel Edge and Christian, I called him an Edge replacement. Two very different things... |
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#12 |
Feeling Oof-y
Posts: 17,151
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You effectively called him a Edge "ripoff".
Like I keep saying, I fully expect him to become the ALL OUT, FULLY FLEDGED CHICKEN SHIT, CHEATING heel AT SOME POINT. This is called character progression. And it's fucking joyful to see it. How many times does a persons whole character change when they become heel/face. Look at Orton, a guy that booted people in the head and tried to end careers as a heel, hugs Cena - a guy he had booted in the head and tried to end the career of - when he is forced to leave WWE. That's bullshit whether or not it's tried and tested/succesful/the standard for the industry. God forbid we have a guy forced to breaking point by a catalogue of issues rather than just snapping after one incident. |
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#13 |
reeking of awesomeness
Posts: 447
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According to you, "ripoff" isn;t a carbon copy, so there really is no parallel by that logic. Effectively? Did I or didn't I? Can't say I did then didn't. Replacement was the exact word I used.
Maybe he will return to that, which he needs. Character progression? I call it character destruction. It's one thing to build a guy forced to the breaking point. But, having him lose over and over doesn't ptogress anything, it bores the fans and makes Christian look inferior. Now, having him snap after the losses and winning the belt IMO would be character progression. The reaction he's getting only proves something is wreng with this heel turn. |
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#14 |
yeah nah good mate
Posts: 1,499
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yay a semantics fight
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#15 |
reeking of awesomeness
Posts: 447
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I prefer to call it difference of opinion. Not really a fight if you discuss something. Fighting would be flaming back and forth for no reason. Ppl generally see things from their own POV, which is fine, as long as everything is discussed and on topic.
I personally don't care for the way Christian has been pushed since he turned heel. If someone sees something in it I don't, fine. Sometimes seeing an opinion other than your own gives you new perspective. I do think he still could be used properly, but as of now, I just don't think he's an effective heel. |
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#16 |
Feeling Oof-y
Posts: 17,151
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Looks that way.
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#17 |
Posts: 61,523
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Christian is doing fine as a heel. His heat has been tremendous. He's still getting signs and chants and stuff, but so many heels get that, too. CM Punk and The Miz are arguably the two best heels in the WWE today, and they get their share of positive reactions, too. When Christian cues the crowd to boo, they boo.
The only problem I see is that so much of this feud seems inverted. Christian seems more sympathetic than Orton, really. I'm not saying Orton should be sympathetic -- I like the way his character is a ruthless bad-ass and hasn't changed much since turning; but the angle is interesting because there are still those shades of grey. I'm sure there are marks for Christian, who really got into his journey to the World Heavyweight Title that want to see him win the World Heavyweight Title from Orton who kicks people in the head when they are down. In many ways, that's a good thing, don't get me wrong. I like that Christian is slowly edging into a heel character. He didn't hit Orton with the belt and then suddenly come out to his new theme, titantron, tights, haircut, etc. He's the same guy that truthfully thinks he's on Orton's level. As XL said, the "catalogue of issues" is building with Christian, and either he'll lose to Orton, or he'll cheat his ass off to win the title. I have a feeling that the destination is going to give more meaning to the journey. |
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#18 |
RAPTURE READY.
Posts: 31,936
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Thrilla, what would you do to make Christian YOUR IDEAL HEEL?
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#19 |
Cranky Kong
Posts: 78,671
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I would have him rape Kelly Kelly in the middle of the ring.
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#20 |
Shelly Martinez = Ratings
Posts: 23,610
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#21 |
Cranky Kong
Posts: 78,671
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Or at least threaten to if Teddy doesn't give him another title shot.
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#22 |
RAPTURE READY.
Posts: 31,936
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I agree, he was great with Tomko. He needs some muscle for the rub, it would work both ways too though.
As a heel, he's the best when he has someone with him Who would be ideal for the role? Mark Henry? I'd like to see that |
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#23 | |
Posts: 61,523
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Quote:
The problem is, Clay and Christian were sort of feuding earlier this year -- but they can do a spot where Clay says that Christian earned his respect, whereas Del Rio ditched him. Christian's given him a chance to redeem himself on SmackDown!. |
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#24 | |
RAPTURE READY.
Posts: 31,936
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Quote:
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#25 |
They're eating the dogs..
Posts: 27,469
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Christian needs God
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#26 |
reeking of awesomeness
Posts: 447
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#27 |
Narc stole my star
Posts: 6,110
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maybe Chris Masters, don't think hes doing much right now and he can do the 'comedy' stuff just like Tomko used to..
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#28 |
Cranky Kong
Posts: 78,671
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#29 |
They're eating the dogs..
Posts: 27,469
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Mason Ryan is the obvious choice becaise all he has to do is stand there and let Christian do all the talking. Also, who's with me that Chris Jericho and Christian would be the 4th greatest tag team in the history of pro rasslin since May 1995?
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