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Old 07-02-2015, 09:35 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by DAMN iNATOR View Post
Of course it doesn't. I mean it's not like WM has been a 4-hour show for the past few years or anything. Besides you did partially take what I said out of context/selectively left out that I said 40 OR 45-minute WrestleMania classic. I meant that as an idea for a taker retirement match at WM 33 where the "monster" version of Kane is back and motivated to retire Taker "for good", not just his career...a couple months of back and forth head games between a masked Kane and Taker, and then just let them blow the roof off the building with an epic match that Undertaker comes from behind to win in his 25th and final WM match, ending on 24-1...huge 24-1 graphic on screen as the cameras follow him up the ramp and he looks back at the crowd one last time as he raises his right hand up high and pounds his chest with his left fist a couple of times to a loud pop and "Thank You, 'Taker! chants".

You don't have to like my idea, but if you're going to try to poke holes in it bring something more than that weak tea, bro.
I"m not a workrate snob at al. At fucking all. Even I wouldn't want to see them go more than 15 minutes.
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Old 07-02-2015, 09:38 PM   #42
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I believe a match with Kane would be a good send off for the both them. Kane and Taker at WM33 seems like a better time to do it rather than this year.
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Old 07-03-2015, 04:46 AM   #43
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Taker vs. Kane wraps things up nicely from a storyline POV (if that's even possible given the amount of retcon done on the Half-Brothers of Destruction) but a FORTY to 45 minute (because shaving that 5 minutes off could be the difference between a ****1/2 and 5* match, guys) "classic" it won't be.

They've had WM matches before; over 10 years ago, and nearly 20 years ago, neither of which were classics when Taker still had a lot more "go" in him. They've had non-WM matches too, Hell In A Cell and Buried Alive matches 5 years ago, that again were nowhere near classics.

Takers last 2 matches at Mania haven't been classics, with arguably more capable opponents than Kane is.

What I'm saying is, Taker and/or Kane aren't capable of a great match even with the tacked-on "oomph" of a huge gimmick match, yet you think they can put on a 40 minute "classic"?

I disagree.
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Old 07-03-2015, 05:19 AM   #44
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I have no desire to see Undertaker vs. Sting, Austin vs. Lesnar, Rock vs. Triple H, or anything involving some UFC chick. Fuck all of these old-timers who come back for Wrestlemania and fuck off and leave the rest of the roster to pick up the scraps. So sick of Wrestlemania every year being booked around what the same five or six people are gonna be doing. Fuck this shit.
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Old 07-03-2015, 05:20 AM   #45
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Also the Undertaker doesn't need any more matches. Seriously he's had ONE HELL OF A FUCKING RUN but seriously all his matches are fucking boring and repetitive now. No matches with Kane or anyone else please. Just fuck off and let someone new start to build a legacy for themselves.
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Old 07-03-2015, 05:24 AM   #46
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And we don't need any bullshit "passing of the torch" matches like Sting vs. Cena because Cena is now in that position where he should be passing that torch. God I'm so sick of all these "dream matches" that are just the same ol' BS these days. Even Austin facing Lesnar doesn't interest me. Austin's had his run, it was fantastic and it was 15 years ago. The only way Austin would interest me today is if he was a guest referee/enforcer etc, and even that would be boring and predictable, ending with Stunner's etc.

Fuck guys. It's been 22 years of my life, but I'm really starting to think I'm done with wrestling. I'm so bored of the product, I skip through Raw and get through most of it in 15 minutes, same for PPV's. I just don't care for all these old timers anymore. I wanna see more of Cesaro, Ziggler, Rhodes, Barrett etc. And their pushes come and go so often I struggle to maintain interest. Fuck what a rant...
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Old 07-03-2015, 07:22 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
I'm thinking they may go Reigns vs Lesnar for the title again with the idea being that the smark crowd will be firmly behind Reigns now and they can safely put the title on him.
Do you think that would work though? I'm kind of feeling like whilst Reigns is working his heart out and is clearly going to be a major part of WrestleMania, people will still be calling for his blood come WrestleMania. Especially with the repeat Rumble win giving it a potential "Here we go again" feel.

I think the best way to do it would be to have Reigns show signs of being desperate, hinting strongly at a heel turn. Probably even officially turn him before this point. That way it's "cool" for people to boo Reigns. Then Heyman can turn on Brock (although I don't know why you would take Dr. Jekyll away from Mr. Hyde), and Reigns can screw Brock in the main event and set-up a fucking HOT Extreme Rules rematch.

I'm thinking the best opponent(s) for Reigns at WrestleMania would either be John Cena. Cesaro or Ambrose and Rollins in a Triple Treat. Cena, because it's the old franchise player versus the new franchise player, and you know the crowd would be fun. We could even see an odd Hogan/Rock moment, where the crowd completely supports Cena.

Here me out on Cesaro: He's so fucking good in the ring, and Reigns has been working his ass off to make his matches feel organic. I feel they would be a really good match-up -- like a REALLY good match-up -- both with something legitimately to prove. The inventive spots they could do -- sneaking in dropkicks up to the apron and uppercuts -- it could just tear the house down. Sure, it doesn't seem special on paper, but you'd obviously have some sort of build towards it. There's also this "company favorite vs. smark favorite" dynamic. Reigns would obviously win the match, but Cesaro being a test would be enough of a showing for him.

The Shield Triple Threat speaks for itself. They've battled in forms before, but this would be the first pure "Shield Triple Threat."
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Old 07-03-2015, 07:23 AM   #48
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The Undertake vs. Kane, for whatever reason, actually makes me more interested than most potential Taker matches. Maybe Taker vs. Cena takes the cake. I'd like to see Taker work with someone brilliant in the ring, like Cesaro, to have one more classic; but I don't see that one happening. But yeah, I'm not totally pumped about him working another Mania.
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Old 07-03-2015, 07:50 AM   #49
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Shield Triple Threat match for the WWE championship should be the main event.
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Old 07-03-2015, 07:08 PM   #50
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Why don't they build Reigns to beat Cena at Mania? Honestly, who has Reigns beat in the last year and a half? Orton? Beating Cena, possibly for the US title, means a lot right now. Even if not for the title, and just a good old fashioned old guard versus new with Reigns actually beating a legitimate, protected mega star at wrestlemania in front of 100,000 people would do a lot more for him than being over pushed to the belt, again.
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Old 07-03-2015, 07:15 PM   #51
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I doubt Lesnar vs Reigns would work. I can just see them going in that direction. It's especially not gonna work if they keep rolling with him as a face after he's done with Rollins.

And Cena vs Reigns would be awesome especially if the crowd went pro-Cena.
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Old 07-03-2015, 07:18 PM   #52
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If it is a US Title match, they'd have to have a monster fucking match for the world title for that to work. I'm fine with Cena as champ right now even though it's kinda weird. I can see what they're going for. But having Reigns vs Cena for the secondary title while two lesser stars fight for the world title at WrestleMania would just not make sense. The world title match would need to involve Lesnar and... I don't even know who else they could build to that level by that point.
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Old 07-03-2015, 09:32 PM   #53
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I don't think Cena vs. Reigns would be a US Title match at that point. I've enjoyed Cena as the US Champion, and it was cool to see him breathe some life into the title (I kind of view it as equal to the World Title just because he's holding it). They took a page out of New Japan and Nakamura winning the IC Title there, and it worked. And they probably would have done the same thing with Bryan and the WWE IC Title if it weren't for his injury.

Reigns vs. Cena would probably be either a World Title or a "feature match" all on its on. Bragging rights on the line, etc. Lesnar would seem a shoe-in for the World Title match, unless he does face Austin. If those both happen, what would be the World Title match? I honestly can't see it headlining whatever it is. It could involve Kevin Owens, given how much of a tear that guy is on and the heat he has been getting. But given that Austin vs. Lesnar isn't likely, I could honestly see it being Owens vs. Brock.
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Old 07-03-2015, 10:25 PM   #54
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I'd like to see Brock be held off on regaining the belt till Mania honestly. Have him just rip through the rumble and regain the strap at Mania. I cannot think of who else would be a decent choice to win the rumble and headline. Also no clue as to who he would face. Feel like Owens won't be ready in enough time
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Old 07-03-2015, 10:36 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteinmad View Post
I have no desire to see Undertaker vs. Sting, Austin vs. Lesnar, Rock vs. Triple H, or anything involving some UFC chick. Fuck all of these old-timers who come back for Wrestlemania and fuck off and leave the rest of the roster to pick up the scraps. So sick of Wrestlemania every year being booked around what the same five or six people are gonna be doing. Fuck this shit.
You're watching the wrong company. Wrestlemania needs a healthy mixture to draw the casual fans. Not saying every part timer who can still go should be in.it, but to say they should do away with them is absurd.
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Old 07-03-2015, 11:54 PM   #56
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The solution is to actually try to build guys up throughout the year so that they can draw the casual fans. As it stands though, they HAVE to use the older guys with some name recognition because coasting throughout the year and then suddenly throwing Dolph Ziggler or Cesaro's name on the marquee to sell WrestleMania over The Rock or Taker or Sting is a bad idea.
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Old 07-04-2015, 12:23 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Rammsteinmad View Post
And we don't need any bullshit "passing of the torch" matches like Sting vs. Cena because Cena is now in that position where he should be passing that torch. God I'm so sick of all these "dream matches" that are just the same ol' BS these days. Even Austin facing Lesnar doesn't interest me. Austin's had his run, it was fantastic and it was 15 years ago. The only way Austin would interest me today is if he was a guest referee/enforcer etc, and even that would be boring and predictable, ending with Stunner's etc.

Fuck guys. It's been 22 years of my life, but I'm really starting to think I'm done with wrestling. I'm so bored of the product, I skip through Raw and get through most of it in 15 minutes, same for PPV's. I just don't care for all these old timers anymore. I wanna see more of Cesaro, Ziggler, Rhodes, Barrett etc. And their pushes come and go so often I struggle to maintain interest. Fuck what a rant...
If truth be told I feel the same way. I mentioned to another user recently that I haven't really watched Raw or a PPV fully since WM 31.

A lot of it was the disappointment I felt with WM 31 which a lot of people seem to feel to the contrary. I don't know whether it was a case of building something up so much and then having expectations dashed. As a huge Sting fan I was disappointed by the way the match ended, it was good and had memorable points like NWO v DX but it could have all been executed so much better. My ideas for the Sting v Triple H feud and having the match go last etc. perhaps I have become out of touch with wrestling today etc.?

Part of my "faith" in wrestling was shattered with the ending of the streak too and I a adamant it was neither necessary to make Lesnar big nor the right thing to do with regards to the Undertaker's legacy. Many will swipe me for this but I just cannot hold Undertaker in that same high regard anymore as that aura of invincibility he held which set him apart from the likes of Rock, Austin, Hogan, Flair, Savage, Warrior, HBK, Triple H, Foley, Cena, CM Punk all the legends I can think of.....it's gone. Before he was The Undertaker, the phenom the only man to be unbeaten at WWE's flagship show. Now he's just like everyone else. A legend yes but nothing special above and beyond the rest. Even though McMahon claims it was Taker's decision, I think it was the wrong move and from a WWE perspective they should have convinced him otherwise.

I just don't feel that excitement with wrestling anymore and whether it's because wrestling really has gone crap or perhaps I have outgrown it and it's got to the stage where the big stars are now either my age or younger........there was always something exciting about idolising people older than you like a hero or role model etc. Sting making his debut in WWE rekindled that emotion.

I just don't feel that way about say Rollins or Wyat or Ambrose though I rate them all highly. Cena and Kane are the ones I like still and Undertaker until the day he final hangs up his boots. Big Show and Jericho still exist from that era but more a fan of the latter. Mark Henry never liked then and certainly not now.

Once Sting and Undertaker and Cena and Jericho are gone/scale back on their work, I will probably sign off.


Apologies for the rant but it's nice to see someone else echoing similar sentiments.
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Old 07-04-2015, 05:47 AM   #58
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Do people really think they can maintain Owens' momentum until next March/April?
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Old 07-04-2015, 10:03 AM   #59
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Why not. They did a good job with Rollins last year.
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Old 07-04-2015, 11:04 AM   #60
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I"m not a workrate snob at al. At fucking all. Even I wouldn't want to see them go more than 15 minutes.
The old trusty workrate-o-meter predicts a Kane vs Taker match at Rasslemania to have a work rate level of only 56.362, not that impressive. The longer the match goes the more the workrate goes down. For the sake of serious business, Kane vs Taker at Rasslemania next year needs to be a reverse Ironman match.
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Old 07-04-2015, 07:18 PM   #61
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Why not. They did a good job with Rollins last year.
Seth Rollins had momentum?
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Old 07-04-2015, 09:00 PM   #62
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Do people really think they can maintain Owens' momentum until next March/April?
Naw, I'm thinking Cena is going to squash him and then he will spend the next few years in midcard hell putting on good matches
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Old 07-04-2015, 09:00 PM   #63
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Or he gets bored again and gets lazy
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Old 07-04-2015, 10:12 PM   #64
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I can actually see him ending up going the Bray Wyatt route where they "commit" to pushing him every other month while having him job randomly in between and he just ends up a directionless mess.
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Old 07-04-2015, 10:24 PM   #65
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I can actually see him ending up going the Bray Wyatt route where they "commit" to pushing him every other month while having him job randomly in between and he just ends up a directionless mess.
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Old 07-04-2015, 11:01 PM   #66
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Old 07-05-2015, 12:56 AM   #67
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I don't know if this has been mentioned before but I haven't seen it...

Bray Wyatt vs Finn Balor, in theory, could be an incredibly feud leading into a WrestleMania match. Their characters seem like a perfect fit for each other.
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Old 07-05-2015, 09:31 AM   #68
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@Bad News Gertner: (fucking library wifi won't let me post with a quote in it!)

I totally understand that, I really do.

But by not making "big stars" of the roster of today, who will be the big draw when guys like the Rock, Triple H and Undertaker etc are well and truly done in the ring?

I don't mind a couple of them, because obviously like you said, Wrestlemania needs that big match feel to it. But the last six/seven Wrestlemania's have all been pretty much booked around the same handful of guys, who are all part-timers and all pretty past their prime.

Cena, Lesnar etc are still current and belong there. The Rock being in a match is fine, but please not with Triple H! Remember, Wrestlemania's such as 17 (often cited as the best Wrestlemania) didn't rely on big names from the past. And yeah, they had that gimmick battle royal but that was not a big selling point of the PPV.
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Old 07-05-2015, 11:19 AM   #69
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They've been spicing up Mania with outside help since 2003 when they put Hogan, Vince, Austin, Rock, and a not quite returned Shawn Michaels in the show's key matches. It's not an entirely new phenomenon, but the state of the product's writing now is a dumpster fire and these returning stars are bumping the full-time workers down or off the card completely. Wrestlemania 19 had a nice blend of the old and new and allowed newbies to casual fans like Brock, Angle, Rhyno, etc.. the opportunity to flourish. That would not happen today due to myriad factors, mostly stemming from the terrible management and production of the WWE.
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Old 07-05-2015, 11:44 AM   #70
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I really think they need to start booking based on the talents strengths rather than making them do pure WWE style. With the talent they have there is no reason they should be having "piss break" matches at any PPV let alone Wrestlemania. They have so much talent available to them right now it's a fucking travesty they can't figure what the hell to do with them. This ain't the tail end of WCW its the fucking "E" .
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Old 07-05-2015, 06:03 PM   #71
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It's crazy to think Orton is an after thought now. Correct me if I'm wrong but I haven't heard him mentioned once this entire thread.

I'm still hoping for a Kurt Angle retirement match to happen at a Wrestlemania. He mentioned yesterday he would like it to be against Bryan. Health for both men obviously needs to change but that would be the ONE Dream match left I couldn't miss. The rest... just meh honestly.

WWE needs to have strong Heels come out of Mania next year. Rollins, Owens, and Wyatt all need to have major matches at Mania 32 just to help the future of where the company goes. Soon these guys they call on to come back and work just won't be there.
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Old 07-05-2015, 06:08 PM   #72
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Quote:
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Seth Rollins had momentum?
For what his character is, yes.
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Old 07-05-2015, 06:18 PM   #73
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They need special attractions now for Mania because the audience gets oversaturated by every one else.

Of course I want to see Triple H wrestle at Mania because he doesn't wrestle the rest of the year.

Do I care about seeing a Dolph Ziggler vs. Cesaro match? Sure, it'll be a good match, but not a "special moment" because it is a match we have seen and will continue to see on any given episode of Monday Night RAW.

Like, everybody has wrestled everybody, so very hard to make a match feel "special". Last match between two "regulars" that felt "special" was Daniel Bryan vs. John Cena.

Otherwise they need those attractions that will draw people in.
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Old 07-05-2015, 07:09 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteinmad View Post
Cena, Lesnar etc are still current and belong there. The Rock being in a match is fine, but please not with Triple H! Remember, Wrestlemania's such as 17 (often cited as the best Wrestlemania) didn't rely on big names from the past. And yeah, they had that gimmick battle royal but that was not a big selling point of the PPV.
WrestleMania 17 didn't need to rely on big names from the past because the names of the present were so huge. That luxury doesn't exist today unfortunately.
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Old 07-05-2015, 08:29 PM   #75
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I haven't watched any full WWE shows outside of Wrestlemania since 2013.
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Old 07-06-2015, 02:20 AM   #76
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WrestleMania 17 didn't need to rely on big names from the past because the names of the present were so huge. That luxury doesn't exist today unfortunately.
True, but I was surprised the first time I watched a clip online of the gimmick battle royal how great they did with it.

Same with when I watched LIVE on PPV @ my friend's...pretty huge "shindig" for RR 2002, all the surprise entrants like Perfect, DDP, etc...so awesome.
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Old 07-06-2015, 04:14 AM   #77
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The gimmick battle royal was fucking awesome at the time. I remember being ridiculously excited for it.
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Old 07-06-2015, 10:54 AM   #78
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Quote:
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Why no?

It makes sense from a "legacy/storyline" viewpoint, i.e. Undertaker wants to avenge that defeat, Lesnar may not be in the title picture, hype it up as one of the biggest rematches of all time etc.
How does that make the WWE money?
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Old 07-06-2015, 12:47 PM   #79
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How does that make the WWE money?
How is anything else making the WWE any more or less money? Bryan winning the IC title? Ruseve dropping the US title to Cena? How did Taker v Lesnar at WM 30 make WWE money or Taker's matches prior to that? What about each and every match on the card? All money makers right?

Undertaker is still a draw and will be until he retires. Besides it's not like people tune in for the one match. A Taker v Lesnar rematch would be a decent draw especially if it's his last match. It wouldn't be a given that Taker would sign off with a win, we were dead cert Taker would remain unbeaten or that Sting just couldn't possibly lose to Triple H in his debut.

Also to go back to the money issue from a WM perspective,it's WM it WILL be a sellout or near to full capacity at Cowboys Stadium. You're not drawing fans locally, nationally but worldwide, WWE is a more "global" brand now than it ever has been regardless of what we all think of the quality of the product or feud etc. The event sells out months before the card is even announced.
Last edited by Jazzy Foot; 07-06-2015 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 07-06-2015, 01:39 PM   #80
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Undertaker is still a draw and will be until he retires. Besides it's not like people tune in for the one match. A Taker v Lesnar rematch would be a decent draw especially if it's his last match.
So Taker gets the win over the wrestler that has more momentum going for him than all of the active roster and then Taker retires. Not best for business.
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