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Old 10-21-2015, 02:41 PM   #1
The CyNick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innovator View Post
Well the number should have gone up with all the past stars being advertised for it.
And the number did go up. Maybe the number would have been even lower without those guys. No way to know. The system is very flawed in that a small number of people deciding to not watch RAW has an impact. Even assuming the number is a real reflection of actual viewership, it doesn't tell what the people who were watching RAW are now watching and doesn't tell you if people who don't watch RAW every week we're aware these guys would be on the show.
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Old 10-21-2015, 09:42 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
And the number did go up. Maybe the number would have been even lower without those guys. No way to know. The system is very flawed in that a small number of people deciding to not watch RAW has an impact. Even assuming the number is a real reflection of actual viewership, it doesn't tell what the people who were watching RAW are now watching and doesn't tell you if people who don't watch RAW every week we're aware these guys would be on the show.
It does indeed have an impact, but it's so miniscule that it's a point not really worth even arguing/making. Nielsen measures show ratings not just hour by hour, every 30 mins., every 15 mins., every 10 mins. No. nowadays in the 21st Century they measure minute-by-minute, sometimes second-by-second.This ensures as accurate a ratings databsse as is possible.

Ask someone who knows. My father and I wrre a Nielsen household within the past year-3 years, and we got those facts along with our "viewing journals" for logging what we watched and when/how kong, etc. It is indeed very serious business.
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Old 10-21-2015, 01:08 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Innovator View Post
The streak....is over

3,357,000 viewers average
The actual rating went down though, hilariously. 2.21.
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Old 10-20-2015, 06:52 PM   #4
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Quote:
Hour one – 3,600,000 viewers
Hour two – 3,347,000 viewers
Hour three – 3,123,000 viewers
Average – 3,356,667 viewers
72k increase overall but third hour still dragging things down. Getting to the point where 8pm is now their strongest hour unlike a couple months ago.
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Old 10-21-2015, 10:55 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smelly Meatball View Post
72k increase overall but third hour still dragging things down. Getting to the point where 8pm is now their strongest hour unlike a couple months ago.
That seems to make sense given the amount of sports that are on right now. Depending on how the games are going, people watch some RAW and then start surfing.

To me it's nothing to be concerned about. Especially when the third hour is still one of the top 5 watched things on cable on Monday.
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Old 10-21-2015, 08:22 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
That seems to make sense given the amount of sports that are on right now. Depending on how the games are going, people watch some RAW and then start surfing.

To me it's nothing to be concerned about. Especially when the third hour is still one of the top 5 watched things on cable on Monday.
Doubt the WWE is happy considering how small the bump was from the Legends. Part due to how little they really advertised the legends and part due to people not caring about RAW regardless who was on this week.

Only 8pm was in the Top 5 this week. 3rd hour has been floating in and out of the Top 5 recently while shrinking the padding it had with other shows in the Top 10.

Just 0.2 rating separates 2nd and 3rd hour from being bounced out of the Top 10. WWE got really lucky the MLB playoff game Monday didn't do more damage because it was played in Canada.
Quote:
#6 WWE ENTERTAINMENT USA 10:00 PM 3.123 1.1
#7 WWE ENTERTAINMENT USA 9:00 PM 3.347 1.1
#8 FAMILY GUY ADSM 11:30 PM 2.193 1.0
#9 FAMILY GUY ADSM 11:00 PM 2.040 1.0
#10 MONDAY NIGHT COUNTDOWN L ESPN 6:00 PM 2.115 0.9
#11 REAL HOUSEWIVES OF OC BRVO 9:00 PM 2.039 0.9
http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/201...9-2015/479602/
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Old 10-21-2015, 08:58 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smelly Meatball View Post
Doubt the WWE is happy considering how small the bump was from the Legends. Part due to how little they really advertised the legends and part due to people not caring about RAW regardless who was on this week.

Only 8pm was in the Top 5 this week. 3rd hour has been floating in and out of the Top 5 recently while shrinking the padding it had with other shows in the Top 10.

Just 0.2 rating separates 2nd and 3rd hour from being bounced out of the Top 10. WWE got really lucky the MLB playoff game Monday didn't do more damage because it was played in Canada.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/201...9-2015/479602/
Try looking at the viewership. NO chance they fall out of the top ten anytime soon.
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Old 10-22-2015, 09:00 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick from the year 2016 View Post
Try looking at the viewership. NO chance they fall out of the top 20 anytime soon. Every thing is fine
Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick from the year 2017 View Post
Try looking at the viewership. NO chance they fall out of the top 30 anytime soon. Every thing is fine
Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick from the year 2018 View Post
Try looking at the viewership. NO chance they get canceled anytime soon. Every thing is fine
Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick from the year 2019 View Post
WWE moved to destination america, they weren't canceled. Do you have any evidence from someone who isn't a disgruntled employee, or a reporter who obviously has a vendetta against vince saying they were canceled?
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Originally Posted by The CyNick from the fall of 2019 View Post
The WWE Network is what the WWE needs to be on right now. More people are on the internet now than ever in history!
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Old 10-21-2015, 11:44 AM   #9
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That number is horrific. No way to spin it. Not only are those stars not going to be there again, but the existing bigger draws, Cena and Orton, are going to be off Raw for a couple of months apiece by the look of it, ditto Lesnar, and the NFL is only going to get tougher as competition with Cowboys/Redskins, Bengals/Broncos and Patriots/Bills on the horizon for Monday night games which will all do big numbers.

It really is amazing how different this era is. Numbers like this would have seen Rollins drop that belt so fucking fast in years past.




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Old 10-21-2015, 02:36 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hb2k View Post
That number is horrific. No way to spin it. Not only are those stars not going to be there again, but the existing bigger draws, Cena and Orton, are going to be off Raw for a couple of months apiece by the look of it, ditto Lesnar, and the NFL is only going to get tougher as competition with Cowboys/Redskins, Bengals/Broncos and Patriots/Bills on the horizon for Monday night games which will all do big numbers.

It really is amazing how different this era is. Numbers like this would have seen Rollins drop that belt so fucking fast in years past.
Do you think it's healthy to go back to an era where the championship changes hands every 4-6 weeks?

Numbers are down in a time period when competition for eyeballs is at its highest. That said, RAW was still watched by more people than anything that isn't football. That's impressive no matter how you try to spin it.

Viewership is likely to continue to decline as more and more people more from consuming entertainment through television to other outlets. It's not luke USA has a ton of other shows pulling those massive numbers like RAW does 52 weeks of the year.
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Old 10-21-2015, 02:43 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Do you think it's healthy to go back to an era where the championship changes hands every 4-6 weeks?
I don't think he is suggesting that.
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Old 10-21-2015, 03:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Vic View Post
I don't think he is suggesting that.
I'll let him speak for himself, but he's suggesting a knee jerk reaction to a few ratings during football season.

Doesn't sound like long term planning
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Old 10-21-2015, 05:02 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
I'll let him speak for himself, but he's suggesting a knee jerk reaction to a few ratings during football season.

Doesn't sound like long term planning
He wasn't suggesting anything.
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Old 10-22-2015, 12:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
I'll let him speak for himself, but he's suggesting a knee jerk reaction to a few ratings during football season.

Doesn't sound like long term planning
Not suggesting a knee jerk reaction at all, more just a musing about how drastically the business has changed. At a different time, questions would be asked, changes would be suggested, and they'd look in the mirror and ask what was wrong and go all-in on a different approach. Some hit, some missed. Now, a rating this bad is depressing, but the show will continue to be boring and they won't change the pat hand despite the numbers telling them something very clearly.

Not suggesting the world needs title changes every 4 to 6 weeks or anything, but that line about long term planning is the key - even if they do have a long term plan, you can't tell by watching, the product feels directionless. There is very little to be excited about, and the audience is slowly eroding in response.

Brass tacks, there is no way to convince anybody that the worst Raw rating in 18 years in a good thing. That's all.
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Old 10-21-2015, 05:10 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Big Vic View Post
I don't think he is suggesting that.
Are you implying CyNick may be coming up with a strawman in order to ignore shit that is damning to his point? Or maybe that he's just bad at very basic comprehension? Or maybe he's just doing obvious things like this to be a troll? Naaaaah.
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Old 10-21-2015, 08:55 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Are you implying CyNick may be coming up with a strawman in order to ignore shit that is damning to his point? Or maybe that he's just bad at very basic comprehension? Or maybe he's just doing obvious things like this to be a troll? Naaaaah.
Is being the 2nd most watched thing on cable on Monday a terrible thing?
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Old 10-21-2015, 03:21 PM   #17
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they have been decreasing during the summer as well.
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Old 10-22-2015, 03:55 PM   #18
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They're building to something further down the line. Ratings will continue to decline but soon *BAM* they pull a 4.4 out of nowhere. You have to be able to see the finer details to understand it.
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Old 10-22-2015, 04:54 PM   #19
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They're building to something further down the line. Ratings will continue to decline but soon *BAM* they pull a 4.4 out of nowhere. You have to be able to see the finer details to understand it.
Why do they need a 4.4 when their current ratings makes them extremely valuable to USA Network. People don't watch TV like they did in 1999. Why is that hard to understand? If USA was threatening to cancel RAW or if RAW was just an average rated show when it was once consistently near the top, then I could see some cause for concern. But none of that is close to happening.
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Old 10-22-2015, 04:11 PM   #20
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when was the last time they got a 4.4?

is there a website that holds raw ratings?
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Old 10-23-2015, 08:50 AM   #21
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When people start to move up more times then not something happens where "vince" just decide to start giving them meaningless losses. Or feeds them to Cena.
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Old 10-23-2015, 10:05 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Big Vic View Post
When people start to move up more times then not something happens where "vince" just decide to start giving them meaningless losses. Or feeds them to Cena.
Being fed to John Cena is success. You realize that, right? I really think you guys need to talk to Kevin Owens or Rusev or whoever and ask them if being fed to John Cena was a good thing for their career. The fundamental lack of understanding of what it means to work with a guy the calibre of John Cena is just baffling to me.
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Old 10-23-2015, 10:59 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Being fed to John Cena is success. You realize that, right? I really think you guys need to talk to Kevin Owens or Rusev or whoever and ask them if being fed to John Cena was a good thing for their career. The fundamental lack of understanding of what it means to work with a guy the calibre of John Cena is just baffling to me.
Really? You can't be fucking stupid enough to believe this. Would Austin have said it was a success losing repeatedly and made to look pale in comparison to HBK or Taker? Would Rock have said it was a success being fed to Foley or Austin? Would HHH have thought he was successful if he continuously looked like he couldn't compete with guys like Rock and Austin? Compare their world title runs to Seth's and Seth's becomes a joke.

And yes, Owens and Rusev have gone on to such great things since being fed to Cena.
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Old 10-23-2015, 12:38 PM   #24
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Really? You can't be fucking stupid enough to believe this. Would Austin have said it was a success losing repeatedly and made to look pale in comparison to HBK or Taker? Would Rock have said it was a success being fed to Foley or Austin? Would HHH have thought he was successful if he continuously looked like he couldn't compete with guys like Rock and Austin? Compare their world title runs to Seth's and Seth's becomes a joke.

And yes, Owens and Rusev have gone on to such great things since being fed to Cena.
You're mixing up issues.

Guys like Rusev, Owens, Wyatt, etc got to program with Cena very early in their tenure. No different that Cena had early matches with guys like Angle and Taker and lost. The difference is Cena elevated his game and surpassed those guys. The guys like Rusev, Wyatt, and Owens have yet to elevate their game.

Separate to that, no, true alphas like Hunter, Austin, and Rock wouldn't be happy just having a short dance in the spotlight, they wanted the entire spotlight. So they worked hard, proved to be better than their peers and they got the spot.

On the flip side there are plenty of very successful guys who made a living out of being a guy who worked with top guys, but was never a top guy themselves. Guys like Foley and Jericho fit this bill. They could never get over that final hump, but they had great careers where their highlights were basically making the elite guys looks better.
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Old 10-23-2015, 09:16 AM   #25
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Ahhhh go on, it's Friday afternoon, I'll bite

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You said they seem directionless
I said that even though they have a direction, it feels directionless, because there's no energy and what they are doing isn't clicking. Of course it's personal opinion. It's also the personal opinion of everybody turning the channel.

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I think your issue is that you dont care for the direction they are going. I think one of the problems is that WWE is on the cutting edge of technology, and their fans connect with them in ways beyond your father's cable TV. They are often first is a wide variety of social media outlets. If they were not connecting, those numbers would be low as well.
And that's the issue with any fan who gets bored and watches something else.

Social media means absolutely jack shit. They're worthless numbers. What money is derived from them? Nothing. Did it mean anything when it came time for the TV contract to be renewed? No. Does it help the Network? Not one bit. They advertised Austin's return only on Twitter, and it did a 2.2, the lowest in 18 years. Jack Shit.

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Taker vs Brock - If you go back to the angle they shot leading into Summerslam, that was one of the best angle WWE has done, maybe ever. The crowd was into it big time. I feel they have done a masterful job, of almost building their matches in a UFC style manner. Not the normal weekly face to face promos, just constantly reminding fans about the reasons why these guys want to fight each other. The program is a little hampered by the fact that Taker is limited, but if you just look at the marketing of the match, I think its been masterful.
This match on Sunday? So Lesnar wants to kill him for costing him the title, gets robbed of a victory at Summerslam, wants to fight again, then walks away on Raw in the opening segment and that's the final angle. I've seen masterful promotion of a big match, and this isn't it. It's a shame, because right up until they announced the match was in October, it was great.

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Wyatt-Reigns. Almost the direct opposite of Taker-Brock. This is your classic modern day feud like a HHH-Rock or Cena-Orton, where it feels like they have fought 250 times over 4 months. I still the crowd gets behind them enough to justify the length of the program, especially. Reigns doing long promos is not smart, but that has nothing to do with this program specifically. From a long term planning perspective, I feel like this program was meant to keep Reigns away from the WWE Title picture and still keep him hot. In the meantime, for better or worse they put over a new talent in Strowman. We'll get the old school cage blowoff on Sunday.
Using the word classic is being very magnanimous. Crowd gets behind them enough to justify it, huh. I assume you're not judging this on the boring chant the big babyface got two weeks ago. Or the boring chants that started popping up Wyatt's promos here and there since this feud began. They did better on Raw, but this has just existed for months.

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HHH-Rollins. I think I'm one of the only people who can see the forest for the trees when it comes to this. All the way back to the booking of Sting-HHH, I think this program has been slowly simmering. When they do pull the trigger, and I dont think it will be anytime soon, it will be good stuff. Rollins using the Pedigree is a cool touch. Rollins beating Sting on his own. Rollins slowly starting to take matters into his own hands and win matches on his own. Its the right way to build a guy you expect to be a futue babyface headliner.
Before Raw he'd lost like 19 out of his last 20 matches. I'd love for the narrative to be that over time, the coddled Seth gets sculpted into a great champion, and ends up being too good for the Authority and Trips gets jealous, but Rollins is too good and beats him too. But that isn't the framing of this. At all, it's been inconsistent and a burden on the show, and using Kane to tell that story doesn't work, which the live audiences are making that abundantly clear. Using Sting to tell that story could work, if Seth didn't get pinned right before clean in the middle.




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Old 10-23-2015, 10:00 AM   #26
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That's a pretty negative outlook. And that's coming from a guy who calls himself the CyNick.

You should really spend time on something else. You clearly have invested tons of time watching every fine detail of these shows and you are not getting joy out of it. Time to move on IMO.
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Old 10-23-2015, 10:02 AM   #27
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He runs a podcast he has to watch it.
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Old 10-23-2015, 10:05 AM   #28
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He runs a podcast he has to watch it.
Lol. Oh man that's rich.
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Old 10-23-2015, 10:13 AM   #29
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You know whats even more of a success? Beating John Cena.
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Old 10-23-2015, 10:14 AM   #30
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I don't think any ones goal as a WWE wrestler is to lose to John Cena. What you said in post #116 makes no sense.
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Old 10-23-2015, 12:31 PM   #31
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I don't think any ones goal as a WWE wrestler is to lose to John Cena. What you said in post #116 makes no sense.
First, Cena has put over lots of guys. Way more than he should.

If you are referring to guys losing to Cena, no it shouldn't be their goal to ultimately lose. However, if the peak of your career is you worked a back and forth program with one of the greatest stars in the history of the industry, you did pretty well.

The WWE would love for someone to outshine John Cena and TAKE his spot, but the only guy who came close had career threatening/ending injuries. Everyone else hasn't been able to take the spotlight from John. It would be a terrible idea for WWE to put every flavor of the month over John multiple times in a program. These guys have to prove they can take the spot and they all get it.
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Old 10-23-2015, 12:51 PM   #32
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First, Cena has put over lots of guys. Way more than he should.

If you are referring to guys losing to Cena, no it shouldn't be their goal to ultimately lose. However, if the peak of your career is you worked a back and forth program with one of the greatest stars in the history of the industry, you did pretty well.
Who did Cena put over? Who WON a feud against Cena?

These guys aren't going back and forth with Cena, they are winning maybe one match then losing all the others.
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Old 10-23-2015, 12:57 PM   #33
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Who did Cena put over? Who WON a feud against Cena?

These guys aren't going back and forth with Cena, they are winning maybe one match then losing all the others.
Look dude, you don't understand the business. Cena went 2-1 against Owens. If you think that should have gone any other way, I don't know how to help you.

Look at Foleys record vs Taker in their first run in 96. Look at Austins record with Bret. Look at Cena's initial run. All these guys got rubs by working with established top guys but ultimately counting the lights. The talent needs to elevate their game to get to the next level. The guys today don't know how or don't want to do that.
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Old 10-23-2015, 01:03 PM   #34
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I was merely responding to things you have said
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First, Cena has put over lots of guys. Way more than he should.
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Originally Posted by Big Vic View Post
Who did Cena put over? Who WON a feud against Cena?
==============================
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
If you are referring to guys losing to Cena, no it shouldn't be their goal to ultimately lose. However, if the peak of your career is you worked a back and forth program with one of the greatest stars in the history of the industry, you did pretty well.
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These guys aren't going back and forth with Cena, they are winning maybe one match then losing all the others.
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Old 10-23-2015, 01:09 PM   #35
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Punk, Bryan, Lesnar

If you don't think Cena put all those guys over STRONG you're a moron. Which could be the case
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Old 10-23-2015, 01:24 PM   #36
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Still remember the Cena/Lesnar match at Extreme Rules. Very underrated match told with violence and stairs
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Old 10-23-2015, 01:30 PM   #37
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I thought you said earlier you were against name calling but ok

I'll give you Lesnar and Bryan although I will say Bryan and Cena didn't have a real feud and just a match. But he did put him over in the match.

Punk and Cena always were about about equal in there feuds, but yes in 2011 Cena put over Punk at MITB and then (cleanly?) at summerslam and look what it did for punks Career. He became the number 2 guy in the company.

Bryan wins a match against Cena and then doesn't have it sullied with 3 consecutive losses to Cena after and he is made into a star. (The WWE decides to fuck that up in the Fall but that's a different topic).

---------------------------------

If I was in charge I would have done that with Rusev at Mania. then He beats Cena again at Extreme Rules. I would have Rusev be the top heel in the company and have him only been taken down by the next rising face of the company.
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Old 10-23-2015, 02:00 PM   #38
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I thought you said earlier you were against name calling but ok

I'll give you Lesnar and Bryan although I will say Bryan and Cena didn't have a real feud and just a match. But he did put him over in the match.

Punk and Cena always were about about equal in there feuds, but yes in 2011 Cena put over Punk at MITB and then (cleanly?) at summerslam and look what it did for punks Career. He became the number 2 guy in the company.

Bryan wins a match against Cena and then doesn't have it sullied with 3 consecutive losses to Cena after and he is made into a star. (The WWE decides to fuck that up in the Fall but that's a different topic).

---------------------------------

If I was in charge I would have done that with Rusev at Mania. then He beats Cena again at Extreme Rules. I would have Rusev be the top heel in the company and have him only been taken down by the next rising face of the company.
Consider it me giving you a rub by calling you a name. My apologies. I'm sure you're not a moron.

The point of contention was Cenas role in putting guys over. As I have demonstrated he did that many times. How they got over after that had zero to do with Cena.

No offense but that booking makes no sense. Rusev was already essentially the number 1, maybe number 2 heel. He was up against the top babyface in a high profile championship match at Mania. If he beats Cena, where does he go from there? Cena never beat him like he was some JOB guy, Cena let Rusev shine in their matches. As should be the case in sports entertainment, the babyface went over in the end.

Besides, if Cena had lost that program, Lesnar dominating him at Summerslam would have meant very little, becuase it would have been like "yeah Cena just got dominated by Rusev too, big deal"
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Old 10-23-2015, 02:10 PM   #39
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I stated in a thread months ago (probably when you weren't here, also it was before Brock re-signed) that I felt Rusev should have been the one to go over Brock sometime before Mania. Beat Cena at Mania, while Reigns beats Brock at the same event). Setting up for Reigns to be the one to topple Rusev at SummerSlam, if Reigns was ready to be the top guy, and then Reigns would beat Cena at WM32.

Cena would be putting 2 guys over that could carry the company well on into the future..... Too bad Reigns can't cut a promo to save his life.

Quote:
As should be the case in sports entertainment, the babyface went over in the end.
My outlook on this is different, I feel Heels should be the ones dominating and faces should have the short runs. That is not WWEs vision but other territories followed this.
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Old 10-23-2015, 02:25 PM   #40
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I stated in a thread months ago (probably when you weren't here, also it was before Brock re-signed) that I felt Rusev should have been the one to go over Brock sometime before Mania. Beat Cena at Mania, while Reigns beats Brock at the same event). Setting up for Reigns to be the one to topple Rusev at SummerSlam if Reigns was ready to be the top guy, and then Reigns would beat Cena at WM32.
But don't you think it's a waste to put all that effort into building Brock (breaks the streak, dominates Cena, plows through everyone for 8 months) only to lose to someone (Rusev in this case) "sometime before Mania". Seems anti climactic.

And you've now beaten Brock AND Cena multiple times to get to Rusev v Reigns. Maybe that would have worked, although as we've seen, the crowd isn't ready to embrace Reigns add the number one babyface. Imagine promos leading up to a big match where Rusev is essentially silent and Roman is trying to fumble through his lines. I bet you look to get the belt back on Cena ASAP.

I go back to the US Open Challenge. Look how strong Cena has made that belt. Some people say is just as important as the WWE title. When was the last time that happened? That all stated by Cena winning the program with Rusev and acting like it was a big deal.

Rusev had stumbled since then, but part of that was the injury derailed him and this love quartet angle was misplaced. To make matters worse Lana probably screwed them both with her big mouth. Hopefully he can be built back up but with me dimension to his character.
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