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Old 11-27-2015, 10:56 PM   #1
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I find BJ good at what he's doing at the moment. Liked what they were doing with the decade before Jimmy Jacobs left for WWE creative. Now he and Adam Page have taken Steve Corinos son Colby on as a young boy and was supposed to have a match with Steve at final battle but Steve said he was retiring from in ring action due to needing neck surgery. Could turn into BJ vs Nigel I think.
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Old 11-27-2015, 10:59 PM   #2
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I just find him to be really disjointed in the ring. The little I've seen though. Is there a match you could link me to that would show me "vintage" Whitmer?
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Old 11-27-2015, 11:08 PM   #3
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Gorgeous Dave had very valid points about the wrestling of ROH. I hate smaller rings too, always have.
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Old 11-27-2015, 11:09 PM   #4
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Not really, he hasn't worked a match on ROH TV in a while, and I couldn't tell you that his in ring work is any thing great. He's best at being the mentor type to younger guys now. Whitmer is usually a promo spot on TV and works a lot of tag matches now, is rarely in the main event.
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Old 11-30-2015, 08:52 AM   #5
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Wow they are really gonna try the exact same storyline they had with Bryan to get Roman over?(they don't even hide the fact that it's the same) This has failure written all over for a lot of reasons.
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Old 11-30-2015, 10:05 AM   #6
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Can't wait to see Reigns pin Lesnar clean in the middle of the ring at WrestleMania 32 and for 100,000 people to boo the shit out of it as the announcers go on about Roman overcoming adversity.
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Old 11-30-2015, 10:33 AM   #7
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Can't wait to see Reigns pin Lesnar clean in the middle of the ring at WrestleMania 32 and for 100,000 people to boo the shit out of it as the announcers go on about Roman overcoming adversity.
What if that happens but he's selling more tshirts than anyone but Cena and the bad reaction is only in certain cities?
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Old 12-04-2015, 04:07 PM   #8
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What if that happens but he's selling more tshirts than anyone but Cena and the bad reaction is only in certain cities?
When those cities are in the biggest markets you can run, and the WWE's attendance is drying up in places like Des Moines, it does become a problem.
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:41 PM   #9
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When those cities are in the biggest markets you can run, and the WWE's attendance is drying up in places like Des Moines, it does become a problem.
No doubt. But WWE is close to all that data.

If they didn't think Reigns could move merchandise and sell tickets, they wouldn't push him.

We're back to this false narrative that Vince likes to lose money. Or that outsiders know more about his numbers than he does.
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:42 PM   #10
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No doubt. But WWE is close to all that data.

If they didn't think Reigns could move merchandise and sell tickets, they wouldn't push him.

We're back to this false narrative that Vince likes to lose money. Or that outsiders know more about his numbers than he does.
A method that's worked in the past doesn't mean it will continue to work. Also, It's possible to be too close to something.
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Old 12-10-2015, 08:20 PM   #11
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We're back to this false narrative that Vince likes to lose money.
I've been saying it for years about smarks; one moment they believe that Vince cares about nothing but money, he's Scrooge McDuck and nothing is more important to him than his next dollar. The next moment his ego is everything and he'd spend his entire fortune on a good boner. Make up your fucking minds, people.
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Old 11-30-2015, 10:37 AM   #12
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It will still be awful?
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Old 11-30-2015, 10:52 AM   #13
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It will still be awful?
Maybe to you. But maybe the kid in Des Moines who owns two Roman Reigns tshirts, all his actin figures, and drags his Dad to every show in Iowa, disagrees.
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Old 11-30-2015, 11:29 AM   #14
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Except that Reigns is regularly getting booed or al best cases lukewarm crowd reactions everywhere they tour. Maybe it turns around but it's been a year now and the crowds don't seem to be buying it.
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Old 11-30-2015, 11:44 AM   #15
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Except that Reigns is regularly getting booed or al best cases lukewarm crowd reactions everywhere they tour. Maybe it turns around but it's been a year now and the crowds don't seem to be buying it.
The crowd isn't buying into Reigns because everything with him has felt forced. Many of the fans who were kids when Cena started getting pushed to the moon and who were his target audience are now old enough to realize what had happened and so they're naturally inclined to boo Reigns simply because he's the guy WWE want them to cheer.

But it really doesn't matter who the adults in the crowd want to see. If Reigns gets over with the kids, that's all WWE really cares about at the end of the day. It just remains to be seen if Reigns will have the kids wrapped around his finger as long as Cena since Reigns doesn't have half the personality that Cena had.
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Old 11-30-2015, 01:14 PM   #16
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But it really doesn't matter who the adults in the crowd want to see. If Reigns gets over with the kids, that's all WWE really cares about at the end of the day. It just remains to be seen if Reigns will have the kids wrapped around his finger as long as Cena since Reigns doesn't have half the personality that Cena had.
I agree with this
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Old 11-30-2015, 01:13 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Except that Reigns is regularly getting booed or al best cases lukewarm crowd reactions everywhere they tour. Maybe it turns around but it's been a year now and the crowds don't seem to be buying it.
To be fair to Reigns, he hasn't been the focal point of TV since Mania. Was only in the build to Survivor Series that they really put the spotlight on him.

WWE isn't interested in having a cold champion, so they are trying to put obstacles in front of him so fans get behind the chase. We'll see how it works. I know Hunter said in an interview before Mania last year that some crowds would boo Roman, but in other towns he was the most over guy.

Who knows what will happen, but I could see him becoming similar to Cena, where the smarks boo him, but the women and kids cheer him. Either way its an important few months for him. When Rollins comes back, I think that might give them an opportunity to turn Roman if it's needed.
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Old 11-30-2015, 11:54 AM   #18
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I have stopped watching because I can not take another 14 years of Cena Lite v2.0
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Old 12-04-2015, 04:08 PM   #19
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I have stopped watching because I can not take another 14 years of Cena Lite v2.0
Here, here. And that's a big source of the Roman Reigns backlash. It's not even that people don't like Reigns -- they can just feel another decade of an ice-cream that's not their flavor.
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:50 PM   #20
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Here, here. And that's a big source of the Roman Reigns backlash. It's not even that people don't like Reigns -- they can just feel another decade of an ice-cream that's not their flavor.
On the Stone Cold podcast Triple H talked about how certain fans automatically reject a guy when they sense the company is behind them. Reigns is an interesting study of this mentality. If you watched him in his Shield days, he was the most over guy in the group. But when they split and WWE was clearly positioning him at the top of the card, some of the fans rejected it. But he's the same guy, the fans just turned on him seemingly for no reason. Almost like they think they are being cool by rejecting the guy WWE has chosen to push.

Clearly not all fans dislike Reigns. You can see little kids in the arenas cheering for him, and recent live reports indicate he's the most over guy with Cena gone.

Its this thing where the loud minority of the crowd wants to feel like they are going against the grain. Like a child throwing a temper tantrum, you just gotta let them get it out of their system, and book what you feel is right in the long run.
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Old 12-10-2015, 08:39 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
On the Stone Cold podcast Triple H talked about how certain fans automatically reject a guy when they sense the company is behind them. Reigns is an interesting study of this mentality. If you watched him in his Shield days, he was the most over guy in the group. But when they split and WWE was clearly positioning him at the top of the card, some of the fans rejected it. But he's the same guy, the fans just turned on him seemingly for no reason. Almost like they think they are being cool by rejecting the guy WWE has chosen to push.
No he's not the same guy, when he was in the shield he was getting the hot tag and not speaking anything longer than a sentence.

Now he's a singles guy who can't cut a promo.
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Old 12-10-2015, 09:00 AM   #22
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No he's not the same guy, when he was in the shield he was getting the hot tag and not speaking anything longer than a sentence.

Now he's a singles guy who can't cut a promo.
He's only recently been speaking a lot. Earlier this year he was mostly just coming out and fighting. With the odd backstage segment with Ambrose.

It's a big transition to go from being a middle of the pack guy to the man. He's going to take time to adapt. I know people in here thought it was a cheesy line, but he got the fans chanting tater tot.
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Old 11-30-2015, 01:16 PM   #23
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If he is selling t-shirts I don't think they will turn him.
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Old 11-30-2015, 02:22 PM   #24
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If he is selling t-shirts I don't think they will turn him.
No, of course not. I was working off the premise that he didn't get over as a face
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Old 12-03-2015, 03:47 PM   #25
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He's probably as over as he's going to get. Kids love him, he moves merch, however the adult crowd aren't buying it, and going the "overcoming obstacles" route won't convince that potion of the audience to get on board; you can't sell that story with Roman the same way they could with Bryan.
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Old 12-03-2015, 03:52 PM   #26
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Which to me is fine.

If I were WWE I would go out of my way to make Reigns unappealing to adults, but book him like a superhero for the kids.
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Old 12-03-2015, 04:27 PM   #27
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Which to me is fine.

If I were WWE I would go out of my way to make Reigns unappealing to adults, but book him like a superhero for the kids.
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Old 12-03-2015, 03:55 PM   #28
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So you would make someone unappealing on purpose?
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Old 12-03-2015, 04:01 PM   #29
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Why would you go out of your way to make any character on your show unappealing to any demographic? And why would you go out of your way to not let your top face get massive pops across the board and actually draw people over the age of 12 to watch the show? Seriously?
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Old 12-10-2015, 03:09 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Which to me is fine.

If I were WWE I would go out of my way to make Reigns unappealing to adults, but book him like a superhero for the kids.
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Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Why would you go out of your way to make any character on your show unappealing to any demographic? And why would you go out of your way to not let your top face get massive pops across the board and actually draw people over the age of 12 to watch the show? Seriously?
I'm not letting this CyNick gem get lost in the shuffle, by the way.
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Old 12-10-2015, 03:41 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
I'm not letting this CyNick gem get lost in the shuffle, by the way.
My Grandfather is over 90 years old. We don't have the same interests. My wife is nearly 10 years younger than me, she likes a lot of things I don't care for. My buddy has a 6 year old, who is into completely different things.

When you have a fanbase as diverse and widespread as WWE, it's unlikely everyone will like the same things. Of course it's great if Roman can get over with everyone. But I would be happy if they were able to replace Cena with him as the hero to the kids, because I think that audience is more important to success. If that means you have to alienate the adults to get him over with the kids, i'm all for that.
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Old 12-10-2015, 05:14 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
My Grandfather is over 90 years old. We don't have the same interests. My wife is nearly 10 years younger than me, she likes a lot of things I don't care for. My buddy has a 6 year old, who is into completely different things.

When you have a fanbase as diverse and widespread as WWE, it's unlikely everyone will like the same things. Of course it's great if Roman can get over with everyone. But I would be happy if they were able to replace Cena with him as the hero to the kids, because I think that audience is more important to success. If that means you have to alienate the adults to get him over with the kids, i'm all for that.
You literally said the words "I would go out of my way to make Reigns unappealing to adults".

Not "I would try to make the character appealing to kids (which is REALLY fucking easy) but also actually make him a compelling character that adults can get behind if possible."

But "I would go out of my way to make Reigns unappealing to adults"

Kids will like whatever big superhero babyface they're told to like. It's not fucking rocket science making a wrestler with the right look appeal to kids. And if you actually make the character compelling so that adults can enjoy him too, it's not gonna alienate the kids. Of course that takes decent writing which, as I've explained in-depth in posts that you've dodged, is not WWE's strong suit.

Intentionally making a guy unappealing to a large demographic is not only incredibly easy in this case, it's asinine. You said you WANT a specific demographic turned off of the main portion of your product. Not that you'd just accept it as an unfortunate side effect. You'd GO OUT OF YOUR WAY to make it happen. At the very least I hope you can look back and consider that as part of the .1%, Mr "On point 99.9% of the time". lol
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Old 12-10-2015, 09:23 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
You literally said the words "I would go out of my way to make Reigns unappealing to adults".

Not "I would try to make the character appealing to kids (which is REALLY fucking easy) but also actually make him a compelling character that adults can get behind if possible."

But "I would go out of my way to make Reigns unappealing to adults"

Kids will like whatever big superhero babyface they're told to like. It's not fucking rocket science making a wrestler with the right look appeal to kids. And if you actually make the character compelling so that adults can enjoy him too, it's not gonna alienate the kids. Of course that takes decent writing which, as I've explained in-depth in posts that you've dodged, is not WWE's strong suit.

Intentionally making a guy unappealing to a large demographic is not only incredibly easy in this case, it's asinine. You said you WANT a specific demographic turned off of the main portion of your product. Not that you'd just accept it as an unfortunate side effect. You'd GO OUT OF YOUR WAY to make it happen. At the very least I hope you can look back and consider that as part of the .1%, Mr "On point 99.9% of the time". lol
When I said adults, I meant the people who chant "Cena Sucks". Not literally every person over the age of 18.

Sorry if that wasnt clear.
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Old 12-03-2015, 04:09 PM   #34
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Pretty sure CyNick just set the wheels in motion for an addition to his gimmick where, instead of going through the trouble of rationalizing, he can just say "WWE is intentionally trying to do things that don't appeal to people. It's actually a genius tactic. You just don't get it."
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Old 12-03-2015, 10:25 PM   #35
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As opposed to guys like Ambrose who gets the majority of the audience, age need not apply, to pop? What sense does that make?
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Old 12-04-2015, 01:10 AM   #36
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As opposed to guys like Ambrose who gets the majority of the audience, age need not apply, to pop? What sense does that make?
Thank You!
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Old 12-04-2015, 01:09 AM   #37
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Roman Reigns is Batista
Roman Reigns is Bobby Lashley
For fucks sake,Roman Reigns is Crimson from TNA

You can switch any of these dudes out they are so interchangeable

Nothing sticks out about Roman those guys I listed are pretty much the same as him

#giveambrosetheball
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Old 12-04-2015, 04:11 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRA View Post
Roman Reigns is Batista
Roman Reigns is Bobby Lashley
For fucks sake,Roman Reigns is Crimson from TNA

You can switch any of these dudes out they are so interchangeable

Nothing sticks out about Roman those guys I listed are pretty much the same as him

#giveambrosetheball
Think this is a massive disservice to big Dave. He was massively over when he turned, had a fantastic presence, a whole bunch of natural charisma and had some great matches too. He was oversaturated in the end, but he was clearly in a different league to Reigns.

Agree with the other three though, Reigns is dull and tbh, comes of as cocky and arrogant with his looks and posturing on TV. That's why I thought the heel turn would have suited him. He had a reason (crowds reaction) and his mannerisms lend more to it.
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Old 12-04-2015, 06:13 PM   #39
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Think this is a massive disservice to big Dave. He was massively over when he turned, had a fantastic presence, a whole bunch of natural charisma and had some great matches too. He was oversaturated in the end, but he was clearly in a different league to Reigns.

Agree with the other three though, Reigns is dull and tbh, comes of as cocky and arrogant with his looks and posturing on TV. That's why I thought the heel turn would have suited him. He had a reason (crowds reaction) and his mannerisms lend more to it.
TBH I loved cocky dressed like a douche Batista. with him I meant more in-ring style than personality.
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Old 12-04-2015, 04:11 PM   #40
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I would make Roman Reigns appealing to grandmothers. If you get the grandmas, you get the kids. They've got all that disposable income and need something to fill their time since they don't have work or mortgages. And when these kids grow up with Roman Reigns because of their grandmothers, they're ostensibly going to be WWE fans in another ten years or so.
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