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Old 06-20-2013, 12:30 AM   #1
Tom Guycott
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alvarado52 View Post
They had a business plan, saw that it sucked, listened to consumers and their competition and adjusted. End of story, nothing more nothing less.
I honestly don't think they "saw that it sucked" as much as it was ALREADY hurting them financially. They likely expected huge preorder numbers and no outrage whatsoever. I think the execs still believe the original plan was a damn fine idea, and can't for the life of them figure out where they went wrong in assuming the masses wanted massive restrictions and caveats placed on their hobby of choice.
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:53 PM   #2
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That doesn't make sense, KK. Shouldn't this kind of radical back-step instill confidence in consumers?

So what; Microsoft is hated for doing and then... not doing? It's no-win for them over restrictions nobody ever actually experienced (and never will)? And if gamers always had this 'one strike and you're out' mentality, how in the holy shit would they consider a Sony console after a pathetic PS3 launch and a historic month-long network outage?

Like Alva, I fail to see how this is consistent, and not just fanboys shifting the goal post. Perhaps a mouthbreather could explain it to me.
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:55 PM   #3
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Is this a Triad thing? Like you guys are taking an intentionally narrow view of statements to come up with the stupidest possible arguments?

Okay, then. Moving on.
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:55 PM   #4
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And yeah, it always was kind of a no-win deal once they went down that path. So what.
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:57 PM   #5
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LOL "So what"? Are you fucking serious right now?
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Old 06-19-2013, 09:00 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post
LOL "So what"? Are you fucking serious right now?
Well, so what?

I'll be waiting while you struggle with an answer.
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:58 PM   #7
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Take a deep breath and say it with me, KK, "Yeah guys, I guess you're right."

Simple. And I bet the world won't even blow up right after you say it.
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Old 06-19-2013, 09:01 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post
Take a deep breath and say it with me, KK, "Yeah guys, I guess you're right."

Simple. And I bet the world won't even blow up right after you say it.
It wouldn't be world-ending, no. I just don't like to lie.
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Old 06-19-2013, 09:01 PM   #9
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You're amazing. Good day, sir.
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Old 06-19-2013, 09:04 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post
You're amazing. Good day, sir.
You have no answer.
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Old 06-19-2013, 09:02 PM   #11
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Thanking Microsoft over this is like thanking a mugger for not stabbing you while he took your wallet, even though he originally told you he just wanted to stab somebody tonight.
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Old 06-19-2013, 10:08 PM   #12
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I'm still waiting for an explanation as to why I should bother buying an Xbone. So far I've got "you don't trust them after they did something untrustworthy? That's unfair!" From Kalyx.
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Old 06-19-2013, 10:19 PM   #13
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Why the fucking fuck would I care if you buy an Xbox One? Where are you getting that from?

And feel good we replied to you, the guy who compared it to murder wasn't worth replying to. See how that works, or are you still gonna be all, "Well what about him?!"
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Old 06-19-2013, 10:24 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post
Why the fucking fuck would I care if you buy an Xbox One? Where are you getting that from?
The same place you guys are inferring an emotional investment. Don't be a hypocrite, now.
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Old 06-19-2013, 10:32 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Kane Knight View Post
The same place you guys are inferring an emotional investment. Don't be a hypocrite, now.
*buzzer*
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Old 06-19-2013, 10:21 PM   #16
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Basically instead of conceding your point, you just turned this into utter nonsense for no damn reason. I don't get it at all. I have no qualms with you, I just don't see where this is coming from.
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Old 06-19-2013, 10:25 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post
Basically instead of conceding your point
Yes, I should concede my point with no good reason. I'm in the wrong for not folding because ponies.

Meanwhile, a dude just compared it to theft and assault, but that's okay, because ponies.
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Old 06-19-2013, 10:33 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight View Post
Meanwhile, a dude just compared it to theft and assault, but that's okay, because ponies.
Because it wasn't worth replying to. He was probably taking the piss anyway. I kinda can't believe that is a thing for you. Let it go.
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Old 06-19-2013, 10:42 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post
Because it wasn't worth replying to. He was probably taking the piss anyway. I kinda can't believe that is a thing for you. Let it go.
If it's worth you guys distorting the truth for the sake of an argument, you probably shouldn't tell someone else to let it go.
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Old 06-19-2013, 11:11 PM   #20
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Why would I reply to someone to compared Microsoft to physical assault? That's a waste of time to even consider for a moment.

Then again, having these discussions with you seem to yield similar results.
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Old 06-19-2013, 11:24 PM   #21
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Think even if the digital sharing staid, it probably would have been eventually gimped by publishers. They were a big reason why Sony had to cut it back to just 2 people for the PS4 (and I think for newer PS3 games).

If they gave a fuss over 5 people being allowed to share a copy, no way they would have been pleased with the Xbox One having 10 being possible for a long period of time.
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Old 06-19-2013, 11:52 PM   #22
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Well, with an hourly online check-in and one-at-a-time functionality, it was already pretty gimped.
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Old 06-20-2013, 12:42 AM   #23
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well by saw that it sucked I really meant saw the numbers/reaction and realized it sucked.
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Old 06-20-2013, 01:22 AM   #24
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I already said the GameStop pre-order price may have a bit to do with that ($100 vs traditional $50), as well. Half the money down on a less expensive and (until now) less gimped system has cards stacked against Microsoft. Not saying Microsoft didn't shoot themselves in the foot already, but GS may have filed the bullet tips to spread the shrapnel a bit more.

The reason why I wasn't sure if it were a GameStop decision on the price or one by Microsoft themselves stems from the fact that I worked retail at the launch of the initial XBOX. THEY requred the bundle from ALL retailers (where you HAD to reserve 3 titles, one of which was almost guaranteed to be HALO because people were already planning on getting Madden, so they didn't want some unproven football title in NFL Fever, nor were they getting both Fever AND Madden- and one of the three choices HAD to be Fever or HALO). They might have dreamt up the price point as some sort of... compensation... for the "Day One" achievement, for whatever that's worth. They thought all the DRM so all the little game-stealing criminals could check in with their Parole Officer Microsoft was grand, so who am I to doubt THEY thought asking for more up front was a sensible thing to do.
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Old 06-20-2013, 02:25 AM   #25
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Quote:
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I already said the GameStop pre-order price may have a bit to do with that ($100 vs traditional $50), as well.

It may, but it doesn't look like Gamestop's alone here, though we don't know the proportions exactly.

While I can't preclude it, I seriously doubt Gamestop would end up on the outs here. They were in a position to end up with borderline monopolistic status, and I doubt that kind of security is something they'd shit on. Publishers are still scared of Gamestop, which is why they actively cater to them even as they piss and moan that they're killing the game industry.

I have trouble believing Microsoft has the balls to actively alienate such a major force. And this is considering what they tried to pull on the customers.

But again, I don't know for sure. This is suspicion and theory, and it's especially hard since we don't know where the increase in pre-order price came from.
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Old 06-20-2013, 02:34 AM   #26
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I have trouble believing Microsoft has the balls to actively alienate such a major force. And this is considering what they tried to pull on the customers.
Unless the dreamt up endgame was to think everyone would just decide games on demand would be considered less of a hassle; more convenient, and they would justrely heavily on direct purchaces. You know, since you have to be logged in all the time anyhow, and in the same way that you would be feisably paying them for the convenience of watching TV on your Xbone without being assed to pick up your remote to do the same thing without two additional Microsoft money walls (whatever they'll call the new iteration of Live and the TV service itself).

Never underestimate corporate stupidity. I have a story about Pokemon cards that I use as the perfect parable of such stupidity. And those are the types of decisions suits make everyday based on a encapsulation of degrees and stats and projections instead of real-world data, understanding people, and even sometimes just plain common sense.
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Old 06-20-2013, 02:37 AM   #27
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Unless the dreamt up endgame was to think everyone would just decide games on demand would be considered less of a hassle; more convenient, and they would justrely heavily on direct purchaces. You know, since you have to be logged in all the time anyhow, and in the same way that you would be feisably paying them for the convenience of watching TV on your Xbone without being assed to pick up your remote to do the same thing without two additional Microsoft money walls (whatever they'll call the new iteration of Live and the TV service itself).
And good luck selling your consoles through digital distribution.
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Old 06-20-2013, 01:29 AM   #28
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What so Gamestop really did try to fuck them over?
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Old 06-20-2013, 01:32 AM   #29
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Don't know, because a) that was the only retailer I visited, since I used to work there, and b) Either side coming up with that plan doesn't surprise me in the least. Because the flipside is that GameStop will bitch and moan about publishers treating them like legalized pirates, but when the advertising dollars come a-rollin' in, they shut up and and add more wall and gondola space for empty mockups for shit they want presell numbers on.

Ever wonder why there was a big-ass display of empty box art for anything EA in the stores? Or, why Microsoft seems to domineer about 70% of a store's wallspace? It wasn't because of the superior number of titles to the other two, and Nintendo seems to have to cram everything for the Wii and DS into one store corner?
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Old 06-20-2013, 01:33 AM   #30
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Messy situation.
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Old 06-20-2013, 01:55 AM   #31
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Quite. But let's go with the notion that GameStop as a company DID try to fuck them over, most of your rank and file store employees, have their ear to the streets and most are generally gamers themselves. Even with the playing field leveled, the Xbone would make for the harder cold sell.

For all the monumental mistakes Sony has made with their current generation of systems, they seem to be learning from all of theirs AND capitalizing on those of Microsoft now. Hell, there may even be a third option where BOTH systems were planned at a $100 presale, and Sony thought twice and dropped when they announced it as another jab to Microsoft. Sort of like Madden vs. 2K, just on a larger scale.
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Old 06-20-2013, 02:28 AM   #32
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Keep in mind PS4 was leading the pace on Amazon as well from what I understand, and they require no money down for the preorder.
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Old 06-20-2013, 02:35 AM   #33
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The PS4 was #1 and #3 in sales rank in game consoles. And that's before all the bundles were put up on Amazon. We don't have exact numbers, but it's a safe guess it's the better seller here.
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Old 06-20-2013, 03:02 AM   #34
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Just noticed I didn't spell "justify" correctly. And I edited that response about 3 times.

Again, corporate stupidity. I'm convinced they will somehow tie the recent Washington "Big Brother" scare to the reason why people disliked the always on idea instead of coming to terms with the fact that it would have made people uncomfortable either way. Not just in a creepy, always watching way, but also in a why-should-I-have-to-yell-at-my-TV-instead-of-pushing-a-damn-button way. The fact that it took them this long to come to the notion of retracting the DRM this long after people bitched about it even while it was unconfirmed rumor is telling of such a disconnect.
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Old 06-20-2013, 11:39 AM   #35
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Just noticed I didn't spell "justify" correctly. And I edited that response about 3 times.

Again, corporate stupidity. I'm convinced they will somehow tie the recent Washington "Big Brother" scare to the reason why people disliked the always on idea instead of coming to terms with the fact that it would have made people uncomfortable either way. Not just in a creepy, always watching way, but also in a why-should-I-have-to-yell-at-my-TV-instead-of-pushing-a-damn-button way. The fact that it took them this long to come to the notion of retracting the DRM this long after people bitched about it even while it was unconfirmed rumor is telling of such a disconnect.
"Corporate stupidity" is at serious risk of becoming the "God works in msyerious ways" of video game conspiracy theories.

There's a pretty simple reason they didn't change their strategy earlier, one that is a pervasive issue in gaming:

Gamers are spoiled, self-entitled little bitches.

Gamers screamed "boycott" and "buy a PS4!" here, but so what? Remember how well the boycotts of Mass Effect 3 went? What about every Halo from 3 on? Call of Duty: insert subtitle here? Hell, there was a point at which Steam, the gold standard in both DD and DRM, was considered unacceptable. Remind the folks at home how that turned out. Did Steam crash and burn?

Hell, in all the above cases except Steam, you can find a ton of funny pictures of boycotters playing the games online, usually from the Steam groups protesting them. I don't really remember anyone specifically screaming "boycotttttttt!" at Steam, but if so, I bet you can find them, too.

The video games industry has literally no reason to believe we'll actually abstain from a product. And it's literally gamers' faults. We say we're not going to take it, then we gie our overwhelming support in secret, hoping nobody catches on. Even on TPWW, we've had a couple mealy-mouthed little dipshits complaining about the Xbox One and trying to rationalise getting one at the same time.

I do not understand for the life of me why any at least semi-intelligent person with any semblance of pattern recognition would think Microsoft would look at the history of gamer outrage and think anything but



I'll be honest. I hoped gamers wouldn't buy this, but I expected to see a lot of boycotters with the Day One achievement come November, because gamers do that. And I can sort of understand why people don't get that bothered by breaking a boycott for essentially a toy, but....

...Don't huff and puff about it. We, as gamers, have reinforced this notion that we are mobile money dispensers by acting as mobile money dispensers. There's nothing else to it. They thought it was an empty threat because, on pretty much every other occasion, it has been an empty threat.
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Old 06-20-2013, 03:41 AM   #36
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Also, if it makes you feel any better, alvie, I gave it a hearty "YEEEAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!" and put sunglasses on when I read it.
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Old 06-20-2013, 05:44 AM   #37
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Old 06-20-2013, 05:45 AM   #38
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Old 06-20-2013, 08:08 AM   #39
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I guess TPWW just doesn't do pathos.
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Old 06-20-2013, 11:19 AM   #40
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Thank God for creepy Jim!

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I guess TPWW just doesn't do pathos.
You're asking a bunch of self-diagnosed autistics with a "haters gonna hate" attitude to understand human emotions.

Crazy.
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