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Old 12-04-2015, 07:54 PM   #401
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If Roman Reigns beats Sheamus at TLC, I hope Batista beats him for the World Title and then defends it against Brock at Mania. Reigns can then face Triple H.
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:39 PM   #402
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Originally Posted by Noid View Post
No, people have actually researched it. You can have your own opinion, but it doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
People have researched that Vince is out of touch or that millenials in WWE don't have the drive of past generations?

Do you have a link to these studies?
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:41 PM   #403
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When those cities are in the biggest markets you can run, and the WWE's attendance is drying up in places like Des Moines, it does become a problem.
No doubt. But WWE is close to all that data.

If they didn't think Reigns could move merchandise and sell tickets, they wouldn't push him.

We're back to this false narrative that Vince likes to lose money. Or that outsiders know more about his numbers than he does.
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:42 PM   #404
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I think its a bit of both.
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:42 PM   #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
No doubt. But WWE is close to all that data.

If they didn't think Reigns could move merchandise and sell tickets, they wouldn't push him.

We're back to this false narrative that Vince likes to lose money. Or that outsiders know more about his numbers than he does.
A method that's worked in the past doesn't mean it will continue to work. Also, It's possible to be too close to something.
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:50 PM   #406
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Here, here. And that's a big source of the Roman Reigns backlash. It's not even that people don't like Reigns -- they can just feel another decade of an ice-cream that's not their flavor.
On the Stone Cold podcast Triple H talked about how certain fans automatically reject a guy when they sense the company is behind them. Reigns is an interesting study of this mentality. If you watched him in his Shield days, he was the most over guy in the group. But when they split and WWE was clearly positioning him at the top of the card, some of the fans rejected it. But he's the same guy, the fans just turned on him seemingly for no reason. Almost like they think they are being cool by rejecting the guy WWE has chosen to push.

Clearly not all fans dislike Reigns. You can see little kids in the arenas cheering for him, and recent live reports indicate he's the most over guy with Cena gone.

Its this thing where the loud minority of the crowd wants to feel like they are going against the grain. Like a child throwing a temper tantrum, you just gotta let them get it out of their system, and book what you feel is right in the long run.
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:53 PM   #407
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Originally Posted by Shadrick View Post
A method that's worked in the past doesn't mean it will continue to work. Also, It's possible to be too close to something.
Not when it comes to data.

We don't see official reports about things like merchandise sales. You get speculation and half stories from our "reporter" community, but it's never full data. If Roman is moving merch, that's a good indication fans are getting behind him.

Another thing is pops at live events. If he's getting the biggest reaction, that should tell you something as well. Obviously ticket sales where Roman was advertised as the headliner is important.
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:54 PM   #408
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Heel Batista vs. Face Brock is a money match.
I agree with that.
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Old 12-10-2015, 08:39 AM   #409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
On the Stone Cold podcast Triple H talked about how certain fans automatically reject a guy when they sense the company is behind them. Reigns is an interesting study of this mentality. If you watched him in his Shield days, he was the most over guy in the group. But when they split and WWE was clearly positioning him at the top of the card, some of the fans rejected it. But he's the same guy, the fans just turned on him seemingly for no reason. Almost like they think they are being cool by rejecting the guy WWE has chosen to push.
No he's not the same guy, when he was in the shield he was getting the hot tag and not speaking anything longer than a sentence.

Now he's a singles guy who can't cut a promo.
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Old 12-10-2015, 09:00 AM   #410
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No he's not the same guy, when he was in the shield he was getting the hot tag and not speaking anything longer than a sentence.

Now he's a singles guy who can't cut a promo.
He's only recently been speaking a lot. Earlier this year he was mostly just coming out and fighting. With the odd backstage segment with Ambrose.

It's a big transition to go from being a middle of the pack guy to the man. He's going to take time to adapt. I know people in here thought it was a cheesy line, but he got the fans chanting tater tot.
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Old 12-10-2015, 09:08 AM   #411
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It's been 1 and a half years, and he has shown no improvement.

The promo he cut monday night sounded like it was written for John Cena.
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Old 12-10-2015, 09:11 AM   #412
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And the tater tot chant was kinda weak. If these wrestlers weren't so glued to a script, after the weak tater tot chant started Sheamus could have yelled "Stop that! I am not a tater tot!" to get the crowd chanting it louder.

But no wrestlers don't know how to improvise now since everything is written for them.
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Old 12-10-2015, 09:23 AM   #413
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Quote:
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It's been 1 and a half years, and he has shown no improvement.

The promo he cut monday night sounded like it was written for John Cena.
Right or wrong, that's who's boots they want him to fill. So yeah that makes perfect sense.
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Old 12-10-2015, 09:24 AM   #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Vic View Post
And the tater tot chant was kinda weak. If these wrestlers weren't so glued to a script, after the weak tater tot chant started Sheamus could have yelled "Stop that! I am not a tater tot!" to get the crowd chanting it louder.

But no wrestlers don't know how to improvise now since everything is written for them.
The crowd WAS into it though.
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Old 12-10-2015, 09:49 AM   #415
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Not from what I watched on youtube, you could hear a pin drop before the light tater tot chants.
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Right or wrong, that's who's boots they want him to fill. So yeah that makes perfect sense.
It's been 1 and a half years, and he has shown no improvement. It seems like he's not up to par to play the part of Cena
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Old 12-10-2015, 10:04 AM   #416
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Before the main event this past week:
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Old 12-10-2015, 10:26 AM   #417
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I think a big part of this argument is being lost to reason. John Cena, although it seems like an eternity ago, was massively over when he turned and started to become the guy. He got over on the basis of his vastly superior mic work as a rapper.

They want Reigns to step up and fill the shoes of someone whose a) pure talent and ability he doesn't have b) without waiting for him to organically get himself over.

It is forced, contrived, and the fans see right through it. 500k fans switching off during the show is 500k fans who would rather watch something else than Roman Reigns in the main event of a show.

TV ratings are still a massive indicator of the product because that is where people who are really into it, will watch it first. He is losing them and is now starting to lose people in the arenas too.
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Old 12-10-2015, 11:19 AM   #418
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Quote:
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Right or wrong, that's who's boots they want him to fill. So yeah that makes perfect sense.
... So since he's being groomed to replace Cena he should be cutting the same promos as Cena? Fuck actually giving a guy a unique personality. WWE logic 101 right there. I wonder if there's a box at the Gorilla position marked "heel promos" and one marked "face promos" and the guys just take a script from the appropriate box 5 minutes before going out.
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Old 12-10-2015, 11:51 AM   #419
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Old 12-10-2015, 12:37 PM   #420
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Old 12-10-2015, 12:44 PM   #421
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I agree with CyNick, Reigns should start rapping.
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Old 12-10-2015, 01:53 PM   #422
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Quote:
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Before the main event this past week:
Mountain out of a moehill

Literally looks like 6 or 7 people in the aisles. Most people still watching.

Dirt sheetz and Internet goons turn it into everyone was leaving.
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Old 12-10-2015, 01:54 PM   #423
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Quote:
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Not from what I watched on youtube, you could hear a pin drop before the light tater tot chants.
It's been 1 and a half years, and he has shown no improvement. It seems like he's not up to par to play the part of Cena
He's been headlining for about 6 weeks and the period between Rumble and Mania in 2015.
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Old 12-10-2015, 01:55 PM   #424
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... So since he's being groomed to replace Cena he should be cutting the same promos as Cena? Fuck actually giving a guy a unique personality. WWE logic 101 right there. I wonder if there's a box at the Gorilla position marked "heel promos" and one marked "face promos" and the guys just take a script from the appropriate box 5 minutes before going out.
Do you think New Day and The Wyatts cut the same promo?
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Old 12-10-2015, 02:00 PM   #425
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Mountain out of a moehill

Literally looks like 6 or 7 people in the aisles. Most people still watching.

Dirt sheetz and Internet goons turn it into everyone was leaving.

Every mountain starts as a molehill. If even 1 "viewer" doesn't stick around for what is supposed to be "the main attraction", that should tell them that it just isn't working. No, it isn't going to appeal to "every single viewer" but the ratings tell the rest of the story.
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Old 12-10-2015, 02:06 PM   #426
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Do you think New Day and The Wyatts cut the same promo?
No. Apparently you think they should though based on that Reigns/Cena comment since it clearly implies that successful characters must all follow the same formula.

A few examples that deviate from that path on a HUGE fucking roster over the years doesn't mean there isn't a norm still. Brock Lesnar wasn't booked as a generic chicken shit heel with a paint-by-numbers personality cutting the same promos as everyone else. 99% of the rest of the heel roster was though.
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Old 12-10-2015, 02:13 PM   #427
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Quote:
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He's been headlining for about 6 weeks and the period between Rumble and Mania in 2015.
He's been a singles wrestler for over a year.

Are you saying he is only supposed to start training on doing good promos when he is a headliner?
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Old 12-10-2015, 02:14 PM   #428
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Also, stop avoiding inconvenient subjects that go against your WWE apologist BS. You hype yourself as someone who uses logic and facts and smugly tell people "You have no argument" but when your back is against the wall, you literally just ignore shit hoping it goes away. Man up or drop the gimmick, SON.
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Old 12-10-2015, 02:19 PM   #429
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Yeah stop acting like a tater tot.
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Old 12-10-2015, 03:09 PM   #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Which to me is fine.

If I were WWE I would go out of my way to make Reigns unappealing to adults, but book him like a superhero for the kids.
Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Why would you go out of your way to make any character on your show unappealing to any demographic? And why would you go out of your way to not let your top face get massive pops across the board and actually draw people over the age of 12 to watch the show? Seriously?
I'm not letting this CyNick gem get lost in the shuffle, by the way.
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Old 12-10-2015, 03:21 PM   #431
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Quote:
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Every mountain starts as a molehill. If even 1 "viewer" doesn't stick around for what is supposed to be "the main attraction", that should tell them that it just isn't working. No, it isn't going to appeal to "every single viewer" but the ratings tell the rest of the story.
If i have an arena with 8k people and 50 leave and 7950 stay, i'm not losing sleep.
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Old 12-10-2015, 03:23 PM   #432
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No. Apparently you think they should though based on that Reigns/Cena comment since it clearly implies that successful characters must all follow the same formula.

A few examples that deviate from that path on a HUGE fucking roster over the years doesn't mean there isn't a norm still. Brock Lesnar wasn't booked as a generic chicken shit heel with a paint-by-numbers personality cutting the same promos as everyone else. 99% of the rest of the heel roster was though.
I didn't say everyone should be booked like Cena. I said it looks like they seem the success with Cena being this dual heel-face and figured let's see if this can work again.
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Old 12-10-2015, 03:24 PM   #433
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He's been a singles wrestler for over a year.

Are you saying he is only supposed to start training on doing good promos when he is a headliner?
Must guys who have headlined say it's a different animal when the company is on your shoulders. Roman wasn't being asked to do 15 minute promos before, so how could he perfect them?

I get it, YOU don't care for him. A lot of people do though. No big deal.
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Old 12-10-2015, 03:30 PM   #434
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Must guys who have headlined say it's a different animal when the company is on your shoulders. Roman wasn't being asked to do 15 minute promos before, so how could he perfect them?

I get it, YOU don't care for him. A lot of people do though. No big deal.
He was cutting 15 minute promos against seth rollins last year, and Orton around SummerSlam 2014, you probably don't remember them because they weren't that good.

Maybe he should go home and practice, or maybe the WWE shouldn't force someone in the main event spot light that can't handle it.
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Old 12-10-2015, 03:32 PM   #435
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Quote:
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I didn't say everyone should be booked like Cena. I said it looks like they seem the success with Cena being this dual heel-face and figured let's see if this can work again.
He wasn't talking about him being booked, he was talking about him reading the a script that seems like it was written for Cena.
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Old 12-10-2015, 03:36 PM   #436
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Quote:
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Also, stop avoiding inconvenient subjects that go against your WWE apologist BS. You hype yourself as someone who uses logic and facts and smugly tell people "You have no argument" but when your back is against the wall, you literally just ignore shit hoping it goes away. Man up or drop the gimmick, SON.
Ive said this before, but I feel like I respond too much to people.

Lol man I love this perception -"you hype yourself up". Who do I hype myself to? Is it true that I know I'm on point 99.9% off the time? Yes. But I just post on here. If that's hyping myself, cool.
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Old 12-10-2015, 03:37 PM   #437
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Quote:
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He wasn't talking about him being booked, he was talking about him reading the a script that seems like it was written for Cena.
Fine if that style of writing worked for Cena promos, why not try it with Roman?
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Old 12-10-2015, 03:41 PM   #438
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Quote:
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I'm not letting this CyNick gem get lost in the shuffle, by the way.
My Grandfather is over 90 years old. We don't have the same interests. My wife is nearly 10 years younger than me, she likes a lot of things I don't care for. My buddy has a 6 year old, who is into completely different things.

When you have a fanbase as diverse and widespread as WWE, it's unlikely everyone will like the same things. Of course it's great if Roman can get over with everyone. But I would be happy if they were able to replace Cena with him as the hero to the kids, because I think that audience is more important to success. If that means you have to alienate the adults to get him over with the kids, i'm all for that.
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Old 12-10-2015, 03:42 PM   #439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Vic View Post
He was cutting 15 minute promos against seth rollins last year, and Orton around SummerSlam 2014, you probably don't remember them because they weren't that good.

Maybe he should go home and practice, or maybe the WWE shouldn't force someone in the main event spot light that can't handle it.
Maybe the odd time, but not like now where is week after week.
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Old 12-10-2015, 03:43 PM   #440
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Quote:
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Yeah stop acting like a tater tot.
Stop reading John Cena's scripts. People will tune out of this thread in droves.
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