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Old 03-22-2006, 05:38 PM   #401
Kane Knight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey-Rey
RAW Ratings

January 2, 2006 (3.7)
January 9, 2006 (4.3) <-- First RAW with Edge as champ, Live Sex episode
January 16, 2006 (4.3)
January 23, 2006 (4.5)
January 30, 2006 (4.5) <-- After Royal Rumble when Cena regained title
February 6, 2006 (4.5)
February 16, 2006 (3.3) <-- Monday had the Dog Show
February 20, 2006 (4.0)
February 27, 2006 (4.0)
March 6, 2006 (4.0)
March 13, 2006 (4.1)

Source: Wrestling Information Archive
Fucking A, those NUMBERS are WRONG. Retards keep posting them, but they conflicted with the ratings as put forth by Neilsen Media.

March 13, for example, is listed on Nielsen's site as a 3.4. It's on their site. You can't take the ratings off another site more seriously. Sit down. Shut the fuck up. And go. The fuck. Away.
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Old 03-22-2006, 05:41 PM   #402
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This thread getting this far says alot more about you guys than anything you can say against Vermaat.
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Old 03-22-2006, 05:47 PM   #403
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Your constant attempts in this thread say more about you than the rest of us.
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Old 03-22-2006, 05:48 PM   #404
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Yeah, neck injuries could be worse. And piledrivers could have summoned forth the devil, who would banish all wrestlers to the ninth circle of Hell...
I do not see wrestling as being more dangerous now. It appears to be that the new regulations have reduced the number of serious injuries.

Quote:
Also, when there neck injuries go down, they shouldn't simply transfer to other body parts. Back injuries are up, and can be just as serious.
I haven't noticed back injuries being up. If they are, then moves should be regulated more.

Quote:
Vermaat, you gotta stick to your guns one way or another. You say Vince cares, then you say some wrestlers train for riskier moves and are thus allowed to do them. That makes less sense than you think. If it was all about care, woudln't Vince just eliminate dangerous bumps period? After all, the best way to fight an injury is to prevent it (just as you say).
Yes it is, but some moves can be trained for. This is wrestling and everything is dangerous in WWE. However, some moves you can train for to make them a lot more safe, like, the spot that was talked about. However other moves, no matter how much you train for still have a really high risk. There is a threshold for how dangerous a move is an some moves BREAK that thresholD.

Quote:
On a scale of Awesome to Godlike, how do you rate John Cena's championship?
Awesome. He is not Stone Cold yet.

Quote:
I mean come on! There are some guys on here who have great opinions and make intellectual posts that I love to read. All of this talent (for lack of a better word) is being wasted on this ridiculous CUNT (for lack of a better word)
I think you have some homework to do for your 6th grade class kid.

Quote:
You claim Akio can't talk. Why? I've heard reports that he can talk fine to people before and after shows. He's doing a promo segment in ROH soon. I think it's a part of the Straight Shootin' Series, or something.
He obviously wasn't talking in the WWE. And there's a difference between talking to people and talking to huge crowds because when you're just talking to a few people it's different. It is easier to talk to one person with a camera then a large crowd. Also, I am interested how he performs in his segment in roh. Now that he is in a small indy fed, I think he has decided to improve. A lot of guys do and get back in the WWE like Palumbo.

Quote:
You claim the cruiserweights are lazy? That is why Paul London VISIBLY puts 110% effort into every move he does? Watch his dropsault in the Fatal Fourway Match this past Velocity. The guy really wanted to get it noticed.

Another way to disprove your crazy lazy theory is to simply point out that the cruiserweights are stuck on Velocity. If pulling out "innovative" moves means they get World Title shots, don't you think they would have done it by now?
I do not see 110% effort. It was good, but it was not Mysterio level of effort.

Yes, they are put on Velocity because WWE can't put them on other shows all the time. Sometimes they are on SD, sometimes velocity. And just being innovative is not going to give you a world title shot. You have to be innovative, good in the ring, get a good reaction and have a great character.

Quote:
You want evidence that the WWE scripts the cruiserweights' matches for them? Paul London's standing shooting star press.
Actually the standing SSP is more impressive because less people do it.

Quote:
Sliced Bread #2 is more innovative than the 619.
No way, Slice Bread #2 is a dudley dog, it was done before. 619 was not done in the WWE before mysterio.

Quote:
Because they don't want two little guys trained by Shawn Michaels showing up Triple H or John Cena
Then why allow Rey to do the same?

Quote:
You say that Randy Orton is a bastard for saying what he said. The guy probably has no control over what he says.
Orton could not say it. Same argument that you use for Mysterio, except I don't see anything wrong in what Mysterio said.

Quote:
I could sit here all day and point out the same thing other people have, but I am simply going to say this. Assuming your "entire arenas are at the mercy of a small group of fans" is true (and that is a huge unrealistic assumption to make), then don't you think it would be smart for the WWE to target these small groups?
No, because these guys are TROUBLEMAKERS. If WWE tries to target them, then they will boo everything WWE throws at them and screw the company for fun. These fans don't know what they want, except that they want to screw the company with their reaction.

Quote:
You mention "TRADITIONAL". I don't know what you mean. Are you assuming there is only one way to build a face? Are you trying to say that the Rock 'n' Wrestling era was the only true era, and that the Attitude era was all wrong? Did it ever occur to you that fans broke away from "TRADITIONAL" for a reason, in the first place?
Attitude is fine, but I think TRADITIONAL works well as well. I am not saying it was the only true era, but it is the most down to the basics way of doing things and I think that with all these characters we had, it's time to go to the TRADITIONAL way. Fans didn't break away, WWE changed the product in an experiment.

Quote:
My uncle stopped watching wrestling a while ago "because Stone Cold Steve Austin didn't drink beer anymore". My cousin stopped because it "got shit". Are they not TRUE WRESTLING FANS? I fail to see your logic there.
Yes they are not true wrestling fans because they stopped watching for reasons that don't have anything to do with W-R-E-S-T-L-I-N-G

Quote:
Your logic says that if Coca Cola stops selling soft drinks it is because of the consumer, and that they are not worth the company's attention. Your logic says no investigation or no modification to the product is needed
But that is a different type of product than the WWE. And if people stop watching WWE, then yes, WWE needs to investigate why and modify. However, people are watching the WWE right now and I think it's at it's best that it's been for a while, so no, right now, no change is needed.

Quote:
When a crowd truly hates a heel, they don't "cheer" them. Thus, the blatent contradiction of your two statements. THe FACT is that the crowd bood their asses off at the NWO by the end. Was it because they were still effective heels? Partially. Was it because fans were sick to death of them? Partially. Either way the fans BOO'D them. Fans did not "cheer" them as you claim. You argue and contradict your own point.....of course when you said "cheering" them, I "misunderstood" you right?
Big deal I made a typo. By cheered I meant that they Booed, so I put the wrong word down.

Quote:
Listen, the live sex was ONE night. Edge had higher ratings than Cena THROUGHOUT THE DURATION OF HIM HAVING THE BELT. So this flushes your argument right down the toilet.
This point has been proven false for one thing and any small changes in ratings following that are because people wanted to see Edge do more crazy things like the live sex segment again so they kept watching to see if he would do more live sex.

Quote:
For one, I don't need to ask anyone's opinion on what WCW was like because I actually watched it. You didn't, so no...you couldn't possibly have based your opinion on "your experience." Another thing, the source I was getting my information from is a little DVD called "The Monday Night Wars." This talks in detail about why WCW went out of business. This CLEARLY is not a better source for the argument then your "theory" based on interviewing a few teenagers. Damn, what was I thinking?
Face it. If WWE was not there, no matter how bad WCW got it would be there. And many of the mistakes they did were due to doing what they thought the fans wanted them to do like I've said before. Thus my argument is valid.
 
Old 03-22-2006, 05:49 PM   #405
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Old 03-22-2006, 05:50 PM   #406
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Old 03-22-2006, 05:52 PM   #407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
2 weeks higher than Cena, at least one by a margin of like .2 or .3 (I don't remember, they don't keep their ratings up for long), the other after which live sex was promised.

Further, not being worse than a face who couldn't get people to cheer him isn't saying much for your own star power. Edge ended up with the same ratings as the man who couldn't draw a face pop to save his life. HAd they stayed even a little above Cena's before they swapped it back to him, you'd have a decent point, but within a week, ratings were almost back to normal.
Well, yeah you have a point...my argument is flawed if this is the case.

But KK....I will only believe this when WWE posts it on their site. Then AND ONLY then will it be "official." Until then it's only a rumor.
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Old 03-22-2006, 05:55 PM   #408
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LOL Gohan (bot going to quote because it will stretch the page more), it looks like his knucks are made out of PlayDough.
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Old 03-22-2006, 05:57 PM   #409
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LOL. Yeah, wrestling's safer without those moves. Despite a serious change in injuries, and no level of injury difference between spot wrestlers and "safe" wrestlers.
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Old 03-22-2006, 06:01 PM   #410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD
This thread getting this far says alot more about you guys than anything you can say against Vermaat.
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Old 03-22-2006, 06:03 PM   #411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Your constant attempts in this thread say more about you than the rest of us.
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Old 03-22-2006, 06:11 PM   #412
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Rey-Rey does not have that much rep yet (10+)
EDIT: Ha ha ha ha ha. Holy shit. I lose. I just checked it up. So why the hell do they spike the ratings like that then?
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Old 03-22-2006, 06:16 PM   #413
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The Shiranui is not a Dudley Dog. That's like saying a piledriver and a powerbomb are the same thing because they both start in the same position.
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Old 03-22-2006, 06:17 PM   #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey-Rey
EDIT: Ha ha ha ha ha. Holy shit. I lose. I just checked it up. So why the hell do they spike the ratings like that then?
Uh, to make the WWE look good? Duh...
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Old 03-22-2006, 06:28 PM   #415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey-Rey
EDIT: Ha ha ha ha ha. Holy shit. I lose. I just checked it up. So why the hell do they spike the ratings like that then?
I don't know, actually. It doesnt'make sense for otherwise legit sources (PWInsider, for example), to give false ratings.
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Old 03-22-2006, 06:37 PM   #416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
I don't know, actually. It doesnt'make sense for otherwise legit sources (PWInsider, for example), to give false ratings.
I have been getting my rating numbers from Wrestling Information Archive...which apperently is guilty of spiking their ratings. Oops. I had no idea.
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Old 03-22-2006, 06:43 PM   #417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermaat
Awesome. He is not Stone Cold yet.
Funny you keep mentioning him in the same breath as Stone Cold. Your whole "theory" about Cena and the basis of this thread is that WWE needs to make him more invincible. You want him to go on a "Goldberg" like streak. You claim that people don't like Cena because he seems weak after losing to Edge. You claim that if he loses, WWE will start to fall from the top. The HUGE flaw in your logic involves Stone Cold. He managed to get total fan approval and turned face BY LOSING to Bret Hart at Mania 13. Thus this makes your theory total bullshit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermaat
No, because these guys are TROUBLEMAKERS. If WWE tries to target them, then they will boo everything WWE throws at them and screw the company for fun. These fans don't know what they want, except that they want to screw the company with their reaction.
Listen, did you watch SNME? Your theory on peer pressure goes out the window with the simple fact that people that boo Cena DO IT SIMULTANIOUSLY! It's not a slow, peer pressure inducing boo that builds up strenght like fans starting "the wave." One of the biggest face pops of the night was HHH giving Cena the Pedigree. Those aren't "troublemakers", those are fans that genuinly don't like Cena. Accept it and quit making excuses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermaat
But that is a different type of product than the WWE. And if people stop watching WWE, then yes, WWE needs to investigate why and modify. However, people are watching the WWE right now and I think it's at it's best that it's been for a while, so no, right now, no change is needed.
People HAVE stopped watching. This has been pointed out intelligently to you by numerous posters. Ratings are way down from what they used to be. But again, you discard ALL OF OUR OPINIONS and facts. You think it's "best" right now because you're a Cena Mark. No change is needed? That's not what you said in your original post when you created this thread. Make up your fucking mind!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermaat
Big deal I made a typo. By cheered I meant that they Booed, so I put the wrong word down.
Again, another bullshit excuse to avoid admitting you were wrong. If that's the case, then you've made alot of "typo's" throughout this entire thread.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermaat
This point has been proven false for one thing and any small changes in ratings following that are because people wanted to see Edge do more crazy things like the live sex segment again so they kept watching to see if he would do more live sex.
Hey, I admitted I was wrong (See how that's done.)...and ironically it's because I took WWE's word "as fact." That doesn't change the fact that you're full of shit. Are you psychic? Did you tap into the minds of thousands of people to get that conclusion? Again, you quote this "mysterious power" of yours as if it's a fact and speak for thousands...BY GOD THOUSANDS..of the WWE's fans.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermaat
Face it. If WWE was not there, no matter how bad WCW got it would be there. And many of the mistakes they did were due to doing what they thought the fans wanted them to do like I've said before. Thus my argument is valid.
FACE IT, your argument is not valid to anyone but you. Again, you're arguing against DOCUMENTED FACTS on a DVD regarding this subject!! These are actual WWE employees (including Vince) and former WCW employees telling what exactly happened. At NO TIME in that DVD when people are explaining why WCW went out of business do they mention your theory. NO WHERE on that DVD is it mentioned that WCW messed up because "they were doing what they thought the fans wanted them to do." Do you understand that? Do you understand that simple fact AUTOMATICALLY MEANS YOU ARE WRONG? Yet, you ignore all this and continue to argue that your "theory" is correct. What the fuck is wrong with you, seriously? When you continue to argue against documented facts, events, wrestler interviews, etc. and insist that you are correct, that really hurts your credibility in any discussion PERIOD.

Here's an example of what you are doing Vermaat:

You are a huge fan of basketball Team "A". Team "B" hits a game winning shot at the buzzer to win the game. You argue with us that your "theory" and "logic" tells you that the shot by Team "B" wasn't good, because then you'd have to admit and accept the fact that your team lost. In your own mind, your team NEVER loses...so "logically", in spite of what was broadcast on ESPN and in the newspapers...you claim your theory is correct and is fact.

That's what you do and that's why you piss so many people off.
Last edited by Arnold HamNegger; 03-23-2006 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 03-22-2006, 06:47 PM   #418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The One
I have been getting my rating numbers from Wrestling Information Archive...which apperently is guilty of spiking their ratings. Oops. I had no idea.
EVERYONE's been doing it. People have gotten their numbers from PWI with the same result. And PWI is like the major source of most net news.
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Old 03-22-2006, 06:50 PM   #419
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Now look! You made him come back!

And we have another post full of quotes and dumb as fuck retorts!

Worse of all he took the piss out of me boo-hoo

Vermount, I don't know what 6th grade is!

Fortunately I do not have the displeasure of sharing the same soil as I am English.

I take it I am supposed to be offended by your oh so cutting (and clever) response but as I haven't done any homework in the 5 years since I finished school I've decided not to take offence.
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Old 03-22-2006, 06:50 PM   #420
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At this point, Arnold, I really hope HHH wins the title at Mania just so we can see if VErmaat's right, and it breaks WWE.
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Old 03-22-2006, 07:02 PM   #421
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Quote:
I do not see 110% effort. It was good, but it was not Mysterio level of effort.
ROFLMAO. The completely subjectivity dripping from that statement pretty much destroyed any shread of argument you might have retained before that.

I see effort from John Cena, but it wasn't as good as Kurt Angle, or Chris Benoit, or Finlay, or Bobby Lashley, or Paul Burchill, or the Spirit Squad, or Randy Orton, or Triple H, or Shelton Benjamin, or Shawn Michaels. Yup, I can say it too!
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Old 03-22-2006, 07:04 PM   #422
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Cena could retain and the WWE still breaks.
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Old 03-22-2006, 07:06 PM   #423
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And another thing Vermin, don't call people 'kid'

Especially if you dont check their actual age.

Especially if you're likely to be younger. I base this on two things, 1. You are a mark, 2. You are a John Cena mark.

In my original post I was actually doing you a favour by calling for people to STOP posting here.

I find it absolutely ridiculous that people are spending more time pointing out just how wrong you are than posting in serious, topical threads.

Now I find myself doing the same.
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Old 03-22-2006, 07:09 PM   #424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD
Cena could retain and the WWE still breaks.
Naw. VErmaat was explicit.
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Old 03-22-2006, 07:11 PM   #425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XL
And another thing Vermin, don't call people 'kid'

Especially if you dont check their actual age.

Especially if you're likely to be younger. I base this on two things, 1. You are a mark, 2. You are a John Cena mark.

In my original post I was actually doing you a favour by calling for people to STOP posting here.

I find it absolutely ridiculous that people are spending more time pointing out just how wrong you are than posting in serious, topical threads.

Now I find myself doing the same.
He claimed to be 19.

To be young again...
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Old 03-22-2006, 07:37 PM   #426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
At this point, Arnold, I really hope HHH wins the title at Mania just so we can see if VErmaat's right, and it breaks WWE.
LOL, yeah me too. I can't wait to see him flip the script and start becoming a WWE basher.
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Old 03-22-2006, 08:07 PM   #427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
At this point, Arnold, I really hope HHH wins the title at Mania just so we can see if VErmaat's right, and it breaks WWE.
The proof will be when they re-sign Rikishi. Then the crack that leads to the break will begin.






That works in so many ways....
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Old 03-22-2006, 08:52 PM   #428
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Originally Posted by Kane Knight
He claimed to be 19.

To be young again...
He's 19? O.K. I'm 20. And he has a crack about my age for saying Biatch at the end of a post and says something about doing my homework in the 8th grade. Oh, I cannot beleive this has made it to 11 pages. And Page 10 was completely void of him but still funny.















BIATCH!
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Old 03-22-2006, 09:28 PM   #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold HamNegger
LOL, yeah me too. I can't wait to see him flip the script and start becoming a WWE basher.
He'll probably still claim they're flawless, and at the same time, blame their failures on not pushing Cena or something.
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Old 03-22-2006, 09:30 PM   #430
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What's going to happen when the ratings (and show quality) steadily rise with Hunter as champion? I mean besides all of us kicking ourselves for even liking Cena in the first place...
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Old 03-22-2006, 09:32 PM   #431
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I won't kick myself for liking Cena. He was worth it for a long time.
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Old 03-22-2006, 09:34 PM   #432
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But it lead to one of the worst face runs in years and may have ruined him forever (non-smark-wise)...
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Old 03-22-2006, 09:35 PM   #433
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Sadly, Hunter's actually been entertaining of late. Cena's been shite.

It's sad when the best thing on wrestling is a pirate.
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Old 03-22-2006, 09:37 PM   #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126
But it lead to one of the worst face runs in years and may have ruined him forever (non-smark-wise)...
Naw. The Rock recovered...It's doable.

Then again, they've manged to botch both their Rock (Orton) and Austin (Cena) of this generation.
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Old 03-22-2006, 09:39 PM   #435
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I don't see how Rock was ever crap in the Cena sense and don't see what he actually recovered from. The only time I can remember him completely bombing is as Rocky Maivia, but that was his first gimmick and he wasn't the main event (or even near the main event)...
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Old 03-23-2006, 12:27 AM   #436
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Vermaat, you said you know wrestling is scripted. Guys cannot go out and talk whenever they want to, management has to OK it. Akio NEVER had the chance to talk. He can't just go and talk because he wants to.

Your statement about it being easier to talk to a small group rather than a larger group is not fact, by the way. Want an example? Johnny Carson. I've heard numerous statements from people close to him that claim Carson was far more comfortable in front of a larger crowd than a smaller crowd.

I also find it much easier to express myself in front of larger crowds. Smaller crowds can be full of people you know, and opinion is more easily expressed to you. When you can see the faces of each and every person listening to what you have to say, it is far worse (in my opinion) than faceless people up the back (which makes projection much easier). I think you'd find a lot of guys that cut effective promos look at the people in the back much more than the people in the front. It is more off-putting to see expressionless shapes in the upper section rather than people laughing at a serious comment you make in the front row.

You say that Paul London's standing SSP is more impressive because less people do it. I disagree with that. Johnny Nitro has done it once (correct me if I'm wrong). Who in the WWE does the Shooting Star Press? No one. And besides, why is it that almost every time Paul London or Brian Kendrick come off the top rope, we don't see a Shooting Star Press or a Spinning Frog Splash? If London has the determination to pull off a standing version of the move, shouldn't it be easy to hit it off the top rope? Why wouldn't he do it? Laziness cannot be an excuse, as he does it off the ground (which would be harder, I image). He doesn't do the London Calling because the WWE won't let him!

Have you actually seen Sliced Bread #2? Your saying that the 619 has never been done in the WWE, but I think you would be able to find it. Go pla any of the N64 WWE games and it is a taunt. The Shiranui has never been done in the WWE to my knowledge. I might be wrong, and someone in Kaientai may has whipped it out once or twice, but I didn't watch then, so I am not going to make claims.

The Shiranui is not a Dudley Dog (as has been already stated). It starts as an ace crusher (like the Dudley Dog, yes), the applier than runs the turnbuckle (like the Dudley Dog, yes), and then backflips (unlike the Dudley Dog) into a modified reverse DDT (the variation Christian does). You're telling me a light kick to the face is more innovative than that? You may not like SB#2, but as far as impressiveness goes, SB#2 should technically be considered better.

You've turned everyone here against Rey Mysterio. No one says he is bad, but you have basically said he tries harder than everyone else. You do realise his matches are the same stuff over and over again. Not innovative stuff. The West Coast Pop he has not done in AGES! His finishing moves right now are the Booyaka Bomb, as I like to call it (springboard senton pressy move) the Droppin' the Dime (springboard leg drop, WOAH! Innovative!) and the springboard splash. I got board of writing springboard. None of those moves is innovative. Victoria's slingshot flipping leg drop is more creative.

Randy Orton didn't know Eddie Guerrero as well as Rey Mysterio. Orton is detached from this whole thing. I'm not trying to say that means it's OK, but certainly you can't give him MORE responsibility for the situation than Rey Mysterio. I said they are both equal, you said they are different and then changed your story to match mine, while presenting it as your own arguement. Huh? Rey Mysterio & Randy Orton should both take blame of the situation (if blame need be given). Rey Mysterio is JUST AS RESPONSIBLE as Randy Orton for being involved in the "Eddie is in Hell" angle than Randy Orton, if not more, depending on which morals you apply to the situation. I want to see how you reply to that. What morals do you have which make participating in a storyline which insults a close friend, better for you than it does the person insulting them. I'm not trying to say Mysterio or Orton was wrong, because the Guerreros may have been fine with it, but if they were not, I want to see why you would give the blame to Randy and not Rey.

Keep in mind that Randy Orton would have been given a script, and that Rey Mysterio would have known what was going to be said.

This brings up my next point, only the best being in the WWE. Test, why is he back? If he wasn't "good enough" to stick around, why do you think he was asked back to the WWE. And don't say he improved, because I would like you to find the evidence. Test has worked very few shows, so it would be more likely Test would have DECREASED in ability. Sure, they had him work dark matches, but why did they wait so long?

When wrestlers with potential are released you claim they need to be good talkers, wrestlers and have good characters. You do realise that Aaron Aguilera and Matt Morgan are fantastic talkers don't you? You do realise that said wrestlers were never given a chance to talk (properly). You do realise that the wrestlers do not talk when they want to, nor do they have ANY control over their character.

If Brian Kendrick were released tomorrow, why would that be? Give me one good reason based on Kendrick's abilities. He's a good wrestler, good talker, charismatic and had a good crowd reaction when he first (re)debuted and when he is allowed to wrestle and speak. What reason would you give to protect the WWE? I want you to find one fault with Paul London that Rey Mysterio doesn't have.

Please do not mention effort, because all of Mysterio's matches, whilst being good, are definately not more innovative than Paul London's. Want an example? Paul London hitting a quebrada over the top rope to Billy Kidman who was standing on the outside (!). What, did he not get lazy for one night? He was given a chance and he ran with it.

Another example? Paul London kicking off the back of Chad Dick and hitting James Dick with a similar move (!). You said The Dicks & The Heartbreakers sucked? No they didn't! The WWE made them suck. Watch Romeo Roselli and "The Promise" Antonio Thomas in OVW. They were over HUGE. These guys are the funniest tag team since Booker T & Goldust. The WWE fucked them up. What? The Heart Throbs got lazy? Their first match in the WWE was as "The Heartbreakers", and they were actually the highlight of the night in my opinion. They were good. The WWE fucked them up.

Tank Toland is an amazing wrestler. So there goes your "the sucked" comment. Chad Toland while not being as good as John Toland, was still decent at the very least. The gimmick the WWE wrote for them sucked, the fans didn't like it, the WWE didn't drop it, who suffers? The talent involved.

You said my cousin and my uncle were not true wrestling fans because they stopped watching because they stopped for reasons not related to the wrestling. My uncle stopped because the entertainment in sports entertainment stopped (in his opinion, which he is entitled to have) and my cousin for reasons I did not fully specify. How do you know he stopped because of reasons other than the product?

You claim that real wrestling fans don't stop watching. We keep watching, and the majority of us are shitting all over your "facts". Sorry buddy, but real wrestling fans don't like what they see either.

John Cena is aimed at mature fans? The guy looks SIX YEARS OLD! His clothing is ridiculous try-hardish. He cannot throw effective looking punches and he looks like a horse trying to stand up for the first time when he moves. I LIKE John Cena. I do not like the character the WWE have given him.

You claim people watched because of the promise of sex. That is stupid. If it were true, would the WWE not have sex promises on every show he does? Would Val Venis not be given the WWE Title? Or has the WWE not realised people watch only when sex is promised?

The fans that boo John Cena are not troublemakers. Some may be, but you seem to forget, they are obviously plenty enough in number to pursuade such a large number of fans. They are obviously better at controlling a crowd than John Cena. Shouldn't the WWE go with these fans? And don't say they'd boo whatever the WWE throws at them, because (and I believe this is a point you have avoided since the beginning of the topic) so many main eventers are cheered. Shawn Michaels, The Undertaker, Kurt Angle & Rey Mysterio to name a few. Why are they not booed? Explain that to us. I think you said John Cena is an easy target. Why? Why is the guy you claim to be the best face in the company an easy target for fans to boo? Fans "cheer" good faces.

I don't want to bring up contradiction again, because you never seem to set the record straight with those points, but you say a good face connects with the fans. Cena hasn't done that. He gets booed. Is that connecting? A good face (The Rock, Stone Cold Steve Austin, Mick Foley, Shawn Michaels, etc.) has the fans eating out of their hands. Why doesn't Cena? Do not say troublemakers, that is retarded. Troublemakers, if they exist in the quantity you say they do, should have the product based around them, because they are making up a HUGE number of ticket sales.

And if you say that they are only a small number and have since spread via the television, you basically have to go by the arguement that John Cena has been poisoned as a face, and he is always going to get booed unless he turns heel and freshens himself up. How does having a face that gets booed, which sends messages to "the sheep" that are watching, boost business? I fail to see that. Either Cena gets booed, and sucks as a face OR he gets booed because people are not strong enough to like him. Either way, Cena is not the guy you want to be basing your business around.

I think you see a good face as someone who mechanically plays the role well. Someone who can go out there say "Never give up!" and family friendly stuff and wins all the time. I think the rest of the people here see a face as someone who gets cheered and captures energy within every motion they make. Someone who organically fits the role.

Just thought I'd bring up Batista. Why isn't he booed? He was the top guy last year, yet he always got cheered. Where were the troublemakers?
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Old 03-23-2006, 12:28 AM   #437
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Sorry about the long post. This topic is great for long posts, though.
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Old 03-23-2006, 08:10 AM   #438
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I agree with the crowd thing though. While I think my record was only about 300 people, I've a much easier time jumping up on stage than I do addressing a single person or group of like, 3.
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Old 03-23-2006, 08:29 AM   #439
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I've been watching this thread and I don't even know where to begin with a response, so I think I'm just going to sit this one out for now.

Vermaat, you are a God damn retard. Mere words cannot begin to describe how fucking stupid you are. Unlike other morons who have posted here, just seeing your name makes me angry. Angry, yet excited how some of the TPWWers are going to take your little opinions and rip them to shreds with facts. Basically, with you, I'm hoping you get a searing case of herpes from a truck stop bathroom. Go fuck yourself.
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Old 03-23-2006, 08:40 AM   #440
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tucsonspeed6 has a good deal of rep (10,000+)tucsonspeed6 has a good deal of rep (10,000+)tucsonspeed6 has a good deal of rep (10,000+)tucsonspeed6 has a good deal of rep (10,000+)tucsonspeed6 has a good deal of rep (10,000+)tucsonspeed6 has a good deal of rep (10,000+)
Sorry to bring up the issue about Edge and the ratings when he was champ, but what else was going on with Raw at that time? Specifically, what was McMahon doing during that time. There are a lot of people on that roster, and you really can't say that the ratings for a show are based entirely on who was champ at the time. Maybe something turned people away, or it might be that absolutely nothing else important was happening at the time and the fans got bored. I just don't want to make a decision about Edge's championship until I know what the big picture was.
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