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Old 06-15-2004, 02:57 AM   #441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zach
personally, i think he's good in the ring. perfect? not by any stretch of the imagination, and on the mic, he's still way green. but give him 3-4 years, and he could easily be close to main eventing
Exactly, he's 3 or 4 years away from being ready for the ME. In the ring he's not bad by any sense but he's still green there too. His mic work is ok but I agree with you that he's green there too. I just wish they weren't shoving him down everyone's throat because in the long run it's going to hurt him I think
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Old 06-15-2004, 03:04 AM   #442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zach
personally, i think he's good in the ring. perfect? not by any stretch of the imagination, and on the mic, he's still way green. but give him 3-4 years, and he could easily be close to main eventing
The problem is, he's already high up on the card. He main evented tonight, albeit with a group. He's bignews, but he's not ready to be big news.
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Old 06-15-2004, 03:04 AM   #443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lara Emily
Exactly, he's 3 or 4 years away from being ready for the ME. In the ring he's not bad by any sense but he's still green there too. His mic work is ok but I agree with you that he's green there too. I just wish they weren't shoving him down everyone's throat because in the long run it's going to hrut him I think
Lara I gotta agree with you here, look at how Brock Lesnar ended up. He was pushed to the moon and got stale faster than Dark_Kane's retard gimmick. Back in the 80's and early 90's guys were built up over a period of a few years (see the Rock, HHH, Bret Hart). Nowadays fans want to see people built up quicker (see Lesnar, Orton). I prefer the older method, as you see the wrestler develop into a main eventer and be able to carry a company if need be.
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Old 06-15-2004, 03:16 AM   #444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innovator
Lara I gotta agree with you here, look at how Brock Lesnar ended up. He was pushed to the moon and got stale faster than Dark_Kane's retard gimmick. Back in the 80's and early 90's guys were built up over a period of a few years (see the Rock, HHH, Bret Hart). Nowadays fans want to see people built up quicker (see Lesnar, Orton). I prefer the older method, as you see the wrestler develop into a main eventer and be able to carry a company if need be.
Yup, though I prefered Lesnar to Orton but it is very similar.
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Old 06-15-2004, 03:31 AM   #445
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Old 06-15-2004, 03:57 AM   #446
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zach does not have that much rep yet (10+)
whereas i feel his push has been bit much for someone like him, if you're going to play the "legend killer" angle, there's no way you cant build up the guy to be huge. if you dont, but still have him beat those sort of guys, it makes the "legends" look terrible. now that that idea has kind of cooled down and he seems to have fallen into a more "no one respects me" sort of gimmick, i think itll be a good way for him to slow down, learn the ropes some more, play the midcard with guys like shelton benjamin, and eventually jericho. from there on, which should be at least 2 years later, i think he'd definitely be close to main event calibur. the kid has insane potential, he's just pretty jagged around the edges right now
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Old 06-15-2004, 05:29 AM   #447
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I thought Raw was above average tonight. The HBK-Kane thing was good. I'm guessing they will feud when HBK comes back. If done right, it could be awesome. And really, I could not be more sick of Benoit. Please get that damn title off of him, Triple H!
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Old 06-15-2004, 05:56 AM   #448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan
I thought Raw was above average tonight. The HBK-Kane thing was good. I'm guessing they will feud when HBK comes back. If done right, it could be awesome. And really, I could not be more sick of Benoit. Please get that damn title off of him, Triple H!
Benoit hasn't been given a shot to do fuck all, how can you be sick of him
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Old 06-15-2004, 06:01 AM   #449
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Old 06-15-2004, 06:07 AM   #450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lara Emily
Benoit hasn't been given a shot to do fuck all, how can you be sick of him
I was actually sick when they started pushing him to become champ. I was a huge fan when he was putting on great matches for the IC Title. But really, I want a world champ who can do interviews, has personality, and can put himself over outside the ring. Plus he's just too heel-ish. Always with that bad guy scowl on his face and such.

GOD I miss HBK as champ!!!
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Old 06-15-2004, 06:08 AM   #451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan
I was actually sick when they started pushing him to become champ. I was a huge fan when he was putting on great matches for the IC Title. But really, I want a world champ who can do interviews, has personality, and can put himself over outside the ring. Plus he's just too heel-ish. Always with that bad guy scowl on his face and such.

GOD I miss HBK as champ!!!
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Old 06-15-2004, 06:18 AM   #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan
I was actually sick when they started pushing him to become champ. I was a huge fan when he was putting on great matches for the IC Title. But really, I want a world champ who can do interviews, has personality, and can put himself over outside the ring. Plus he's just too heel-ish. Always with that bad guy scowl on his face and such.

GOD I miss HBK as champ!!!
Granted Benoit is a much better heel. I just feel it's unfair to pull the plug on Benoit's reign before he even gets a chance to make the belt look good. I mean shit he's had no build up to his feuds, he hasn't mainevented a PPV yet in a match that wasn't against HHH/HBK. He's been blatantly made to look unimportant, I mean he's the damn champion and how often was he on Raw tonight oh right once in the ME match, that's it. The rest was the HHH show for the 1000th time. They aren't giving him a chance to do shit and it's pissing me off. He could put on 5 star matches againt Jericho, HBK, but instead they throw him against a guy whose been made to look like a complete fool quite a number of times in the past , in Kanw. Then add in that Kane only became the #1 contender because of HBK, in an angle to further HBK vs HHH Part 9000 (I mean shit offically Kane didn't even eliminate HHH, HBK did. Do you know how stupid that made Kane look, and how unimportant that win ends up being as a result?). Then they don't even spend more than a week or two building up the Benoit vs Kane feud and what build up they did was pretty horrific in quality. The way these shows are going right now are complete and utter bullshit.
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Old 06-15-2004, 06:22 AM   #453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lara Emily
Granted Benoit is a much better heel. I just feel it's unfair to pull the plug on Benoit's reign before he even gets a chance to make the belt look good. I mean shit he's had no build up to his feuds, he hasn't mainevented a PPV yet in a match that wasn't against HHH/HBK. He's been blatantly made to look unimportant, I mean he's the damn champion and how often was he on Raw tonight oh right once in the ME match, that's it. The rest was the HHH show for the 1000th time. They aren't giving him a chance to do shit and it's pissing me off. He could put on 5 star matches againt Jericho, HBK, but instead they throw him against a guy whose been made to look like a complete fool quite a number of times in the past , in Kanw. Then add in that Kane only became the #1 contender because of HBK, in an angle to further HBK vs HHH Part 9000 (I mean shit offically Kane didn't even eliminate HHH, HBK did. Do you know how stupid that made Kane look, and how unimportant that win ends up being as a result?). Then they don't even spend more than a week or two building up the Benoit vs Kane feud and what build up they did was pretty horrific in quality. The way these shows are going right now are complete and utter bullshit.
er..what she said.
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Old 06-15-2004, 06:25 AM   #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lara Emily
Granted Benoit is a much better heel. I just feel it's unfair to pull the plug on Benoit's reign before he even gets a chance to make the belt look good. I mean shit he's had no build up to his feuds, he hasn't mainevented a PPV yet in a match that wasn't against HHH/HBK. He's been blatantly made to look unimportant, I mean he's the damn champion and how often was he on Raw tonight oh right once in the ME match, that's it. The rest was the HHH show for the 1000th time. They aren't giving him a chance to do shit and it's pissing me off. He could put on 5 star matches againt Jericho, HBK, but instead they throw him against a guy whose been made to look like a complete fool quite a number of times in the past , in Kanw. Then add in that Kane only became the #1 contender because of HBK, in an angle to further HBK vs HHH Part 9000 (I mean shit offically Kane didn't even eliminate HHH, HBK did. Do you know how stupid that made Kane look, and how unimportant that win ends up being as a result?). Then they don't even spend more than a week or two building up the Benoit vs Kane feud and what build up they did was pretty horrific in quality. The way these shows are going right now are complete and utter bullshit.


Viva la Benoit!
Last edited by c4g2; 06-15-2004 at 06:42 AM.
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Old 06-15-2004, 06:33 AM   #455
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Oh and call me a whinny bitch all you want but I don't watch wrestling for the promos, or the excessive bleeding in long overdrawn, overhyped matches, I watch it for wrestling and Benoit is the best there is out there and my god he deserves better then this, he's the World Champion, not HHH, not HBK give him a fucking chance for christ sakes.
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Old 06-15-2004, 06:35 AM   #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lara Emily
Oh and call me a whinny bitch all you want but I don't watch wrestling for the promos, or the excessive bleeding in long overdrawn, overhyped matches, I watch it for wrestling and Benoit is the best there is out there and my god he deserves better then this, he's the World Champion, not HHH, not HBK give him a fucking chance for christ sakes.
I for once agree with you (it's the end of time nnnnnoooooooooo). But I didn't watch a lot of it tonight I was watching this movie on the Three Stooges and the Return of the Pink Panther.
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Old 06-15-2004, 06:39 AM   #457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lara Emily
Granted Benoit is a much better heel. I just feel it's unfair to pull the plug on Benoit's reign before he even gets a chance to make the belt look good. I mean shit he's had no build up to his feuds, he hasn't mainevented a PPV yet in a match that wasn't against HHH/HBK. He's been blatantly made to look unimportant, I mean he's the damn champion and how often was he on Raw tonight oh right once in the ME match, that's it. The rest was the HHH show for the 1000th time. They aren't giving him a chance to do shit and it's pissing me off. He could put on 5 star matches againt Jericho, HBK, but instead they throw him against a guy whose been made to look like a complete fool quite a number of times in the past , in Kanw. Then add in that Kane only became the #1 contender because of HBK, in an angle to further HBK vs HHH Part 9000 (I mean shit offically Kane didn't even eliminate HHH, HBK did. Do you know how stupid that made Kane look, and how unimportant that win ends up being as a result?). Then they don't even spend more than a week or two building up the Benoit vs Kane feud and what build up they did was pretty horrific in quality. The way these shows are going right now are complete and utter bullshit.
The Kane-Benoit match had a pretty bad build up, yes. However I COMPLETELY disagree about Benoit only getting TV time in the main event.

This all goes back to Benoit not having personality or mic skills. The man has amazing wrestling ability... that is all. Forcing a mic on him would only serve to make him look stupid. Instead, they let him come out for the main event to do what he's good at... wrestle. And Raw ends with him not only getting the win, but making Orton, a guy who they have spent months putting over, tap out. They are handling him PERFECTLY. If they wanna put him over as champ (And I don't think they should but, whatever) then they need to do it in the ring.
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Old 06-15-2004, 06:42 AM   #458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lara Emily
Oh and call me a whinny bitch all you want but I don't watch wrestling for the promos, or the excessive bleeding in long overdrawn, overhyped matches, I watch it for wrestling and Benoit is the best there is out there and my god he deserves better then this, he's the World Champion, not HHH, not HBK give him a fucking chance for christ sakes.
I'm as much of a purist as they get. Great wrestling is what it's all about. But when it comes down to it, I want to be into the characters who are wrestling and actually be able to feel some emotion coming from the match. With the face Benoit, you get none of that because his character is just not likeable.
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Old 06-15-2004, 06:46 AM   #459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan
I'm as much of a purist as they get. Great wrestling is what it's all about. But when it comes down to it, I want to be into the characters who are wrestling and actually be able to feel some emotion coming from the match. With the face Benoit, you get none of that because his character is just not likeable.
I find his intense focus to be quite likeable.
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Old 06-15-2004, 06:46 AM   #460
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In EWR, Benoit is listed as "No gimmick needed"

Here it is...

"This wrestler doesn't need a fancy gimmick, he just wants to go out and kick some ass. Eg. Chris Benoit" - EWR

I think it suits Benoit perfectly...
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Old 06-15-2004, 06:48 AM   #461
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It's too bad-guyish though. Plus when he gets all intense and the veins in his neck start popping out... bit annoying.
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Old 06-15-2004, 06:50 AM   #462
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I think he should just go back to the cold killing machine heel. It's what he works best at, though he is likable as a face but I have a feeling once he loses the underdog gimmick he'll get stale quickly.
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Old 06-15-2004, 06:51 AM   #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan
The Kane-Benoit match had a pretty bad build up, yes. However I COMPLETELY disagree about Benoit only getting TV time in the main event.

This all goes back to Benoit not having personality or mic skills. The man has amazing wrestling ability... that is all. Forcing a mic on him would only serve to make him look stupid. Instead, they let him come out for the main event to do what he's good at... wrestle. And Raw ends with him not only getting the win, but making Orton, a guy who they have spent months putting over, tap out. They are handling him PERFECTLY. If they wanna put him over as champ (And I don't think they should but, whatever) then they need to do it in the ring.
See personally, his promos aren't always that bad, his promo right after WM was awesome, his promo at WM was great too. I'm not talking about giving him the mic and having him talk for twenty minutes, I'm talking about having him be there, acknowledge that this guy exists. I mean fuck HHH couldn't even refer to him by name . He made him seem irrelvant. Have Benoit be an in your face physical champion not afraid to take on anyone. Do something. Hey I'm not complaining about how the ME ended, that's a start that was postitive, but still they made a good chunk of show about HHH with barely a mention of Benoit.

He needs to be the focus, and again I'm not talking promos, do small vignettes, have him fight off attacks from his challengers, hell have him defend the title twice in one night or something, whatever, but make it so that he looks credible, not just a footnote in the record books in between HHH reigns.
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Old 06-15-2004, 06:52 AM   #464
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I think he could be built up pretty well as a heel. I got my hopes up that he would turn after the match with HBK on Raw.
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Old 06-15-2004, 06:53 AM   #465
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It's too bad-guyish though. Plus when he gets all intense and the veins in his neck start popping out... bit annoying.
I like that, that's fire, that's intensity. Passion, these are things Benoit represent. Not every champion needs to be a mic worker, let Benoit do what he does best, wrestle and do it in a way so that he actually looks important.
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Old 06-15-2004, 06:54 AM   #466
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I think he could be built up pretty well as a heel. I got my hopes up that he would turn after the match with HBK on Raw.
I fully agree, Turn him heel but do it while he's champion.


Or better yet, turn him into a guy who will take on anyone, face or heel, turn him into a guy who needs no one and wants no one, a lone wrecking force. He's the perfect person to be a silent killer who kills both faces and heel equally.
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Old 06-15-2004, 07:02 AM   #467
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See personally, his promos aren't always that bad, his promo right after WM was awesome, his promo at WM was great too. I'm not talking about giving him the mic and having him talk for twenty minutes, I'm talking about having him be there, acknowledge that this guy exists. I mean fuck HHH couldn't even refer to him by name . He made him seem irrelvant. Have Benoit be an in your face physical champion not afraid to take on anyone. Do something. Hey I'm not complaining about how the ME ended, that's a start that was postitive, but still they made a good chunk of show about HHH with barely a mention of Benoit.

He needs to be the focus, and again I'm not talking promos, do small vignettes, have him fight off attacks from his challengers, hell have him defend the title twice in one night or something, whatever, but make it so that he looks credible, not just a footnote in the record books in between HHH reigns.
I dunno... I don't think Triple H calling him "The champ" made him look bad. It's a compliment if you ask me.

How any human being enjoyed Benoit's speech after WrestleMania is beyond me. (I may be getting it mixed up with his speech after Backlash. One of them was abysmal though.)

I dunno about him being the focus though. Displaying his character probably isn't a good idea. Letting him wrestle the main event and look good is the way to go. No need to over-do it. If he finishes off Raw every week by winning the main event, that should be fine.
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Old 06-15-2004, 07:04 AM   #468
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Originally Posted by Lara Emily
I fully agree, Turn him heel but do it while he's champion.


Or better yet, turn him into a guy who will take on anyone, face or heel, turn him into a guy who needs no one and wants no one, a lone wrecking force. He's the perfect person to be a silent killer who kills both faces and heel equally.
They should also give him a manager. Kinda like the "He's the only man who can control him" type manager.
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Old 06-15-2004, 07:08 AM   #469
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They should also give him a manager. Kinda like the "He's the only man who can control him" type manager.
A manager would have been good, back on SD, I'd have put him with Heyman. As it stands though there's no one to put him with and it's too late. The bottom line is Benoit (and as a result the championship belt) has been made to look like just an afterthought. Of course the WWE will not acknowledge this and merely claim he just couldn't run with the ball and that'll justify putting the belt back on HHH.
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Old 06-15-2004, 07:15 AM   #470
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Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan
I dunno... I don't think Triple H calling him "The champ" made him look bad. It's a compliment if you ask me.

How any human being enjoyed Benoit's speech after WrestleMania is beyond me. (I may be getting it mixed up with his speech after Backlash. One of them was abysmal though.)

I dunno about him being the focus though. Displaying his character probably isn't a good idea. Letting him wrestle the main event and look good is the way to go. No need to over-do it. If he finishes off Raw every week by winning the main event, that should be fine.
It was in the tone, your buddy the world champion, is a backhanded compliment at best.

His promo after WM where he and HHH faced off in the ring and then Benoit decked him was great.

See his character is a silent, agreesive, talented wrestler, let him show that, like in as I said in multiple defences from time to time. Have Jr and King really put over that this guy is the best there is right now, and stop making HHH the focus of every show.
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Old 06-15-2004, 07:16 AM   #471
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Johnny Nitro could manage him as a heel.

I don't really think it's too late though. I can almost garuntee Benoit will be main eventing next month's PPV since I doubt any match they could make now would be big enough to push the World Title match out of it's spot.
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Old 06-15-2004, 07:18 AM   #472
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Johnny Nitro could manage him as a heel.

I don't really think it's too late though. I can almost garuntee Benoit will be main eventing next month's PPV since I doubt any match they could make now would be big enough to push the World Title match out of it's spot.
It needs to be a credible manager, Nitro is cool but not overly credible.

Oh no doubt but for all we know it could end up being against HHH. Or they could put him into some tag match
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Old 06-15-2004, 07:21 AM   #473
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Nah. HHH-Benoit will probably be saved for Summer Slam.

I think Benoit is either going to face Orton or Edge next month. No clue what Triple H will be doing.
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Old 06-15-2004, 07:21 AM   #474
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Make Benoit a 'fighting' champion. Like Lara said, have him defend the title regularly, and let him rack up some convincing wins over credible opponents. Ta-dah! Benoit gets over, title gets over.
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Old 06-15-2004, 07:23 AM   #475
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Or even better for a manager... what about Chris Nowinski? He's supposed to come back soon in a non-wrestling role from what I've heard. And he's got the personality to get over really fast. Plus, since Nowinski is the man, I would be forced to love Benoit by association.
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Old 06-15-2004, 07:25 AM   #476
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Make Benoit a 'fighting' champion. Like Lara said, have him defend the title regularly, and let him rack up some convincing wins over credible opponents. Ta-dah! Benoit gets over, title gets over.
That's what they're doing. He beat HHH and HBK cleanly 2 months in a row making both of them tap out. Doesn't get much more credible than that. Not to mention the whole two matches in one night thing.
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Old 06-15-2004, 07:29 AM   #477
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Or even better for a manager... what about Chris Nowinski? He's supposed to come back soon in a non-wrestling role from what I've heard. And he's got the personality to get over really fast. Plus, since Nowinski is the man, I would be forced to love Benoit by association.
No, crediblity is a must you cannot just throw a low carder into a managerial role of the World's Champion. Heyman is and remains the best option. Really the only option, unless they bring back Jim Cornette
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Old 06-15-2004, 07:30 AM   #478
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OMG, where the F is Cornette??? GENIUS!
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Old 06-15-2004, 07:31 AM   #479
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That's what they're doing. He beat HHH and HBK cleanly 2 months in a row making both of them tap out. Doesn't get much more credible than that. Not to mention the whole two matches in one night thing.
They are doing somethings right yes, but then they take focus away from Benoit also, I mean hell part of WM XX turned into HHH vs HBK again. Through out it was still a large part about HHH vs HBK.
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Old 06-15-2004, 07:31 AM   #480
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That's what they're doing. He beat HHH and HBK cleanly 2 months in a row making both of them tap out. Doesn't get much more credible than that. Not to mention the whole two matches in one night thing.
Yeah I know, but the whole 3 way dance feud was about HHH and HBK. All the shit about "HHH and HBK have another chance to regain the title and show who's more superior". Benoit was just another guy conveniently holding the championship for them to take, thank you very much. There wasn't much focus on Benoit's first PPV defence of the title.

And the tag title thing is just ridiculous. The tag division is in shambles (as noted by almost everyone here). Edge is returning! Benoit needs some credibility! Quick-fix: Give them the titles! La Resistance winning the titles was the best thing to happen to it, IMO. It just seemed ridiculous that Benoit would go for 2 titles, when it was so obvious that his feud with Kane was non-existant.
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