The official MLB offseason thread! - Page 12

**VonErich Lives** · 12-28-2004, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon

No the issue is people always saying to me "Yankees win all the time because Steinbrener has the most money." When the Yankees were losing all the time from 85-95, I never heard those complaints. It wasn't until 98 that it started coming out, ahhhh, just pisses me off.

Anyway I have some cool statistic in my sports marketing book having to do with MLB teams. I wanted to post it now, but I totally forgot what it was. It has to do with something along these lines though. I'll get it later, it's in my car right now.

Yeah, people have it wrong, George probably isn't the richest owner, but he probably does have the most profitable team.

But he plays by the rules, he's gonna pay that 25mil luxury tax, and I think every year in a row you're over, the penalty % increases.

He did have a good point a few years back, if he has to pay 25mil that's div between the other teams who aren't over, they should be required to increase they're payroll by that amount or not get the money.

What's the point of giving 2mil in penalty money from the yanks to say the Twins if he's not going to spend it on the team.

**Loose Cannon** · 12-28-2004, 08:12 PM

Honda Civic 2001

**Nervous Ferret** · 12-28-2004, 08:32 PM

Steinbrenner is the 2nd richest owner. The guy in Cleveland is the richest I believe. But, obviously Steinbrenner is willing to pay the most.

**Loose Cannon** · 12-28-2004, 09:46 PM

wrong.

**Loose Cannon** · 12-28-2004, 10:01 PM

Forbes just did there ranking thing for richest people in the world:

Baseball Owners:

Carl Pohlad #88: Twins
Arte Moreno #244: Angels
John Moores #347: Padres
Tom Hicks #350: Rangers
Tom Werner #396: Red Sox

Stein wasn't even on the list. So from now on if anybody makes mention that Steinbrener has the most money and that's why the Yankees win, I'm just going to quote this post.

**BCWWF** · 12-29-2004, 02:49 AM

Fuck you Pohlad

Spend some cash and win a World Series before you die

**Jesus Shuttlesworth** · 12-29-2004, 02:56 AM

Yankees are the most profitable team, so Steinbrener gets to spend the most money. Steinbrener makes the most, then spends the most, which makes him not one of the richest owners. Quote that post all you want, wouldn't really make sense..since the Yanks have the highest payroll by far?

**Nervous Ferret** · 12-29-2004, 02:58 AM

Wow.. I was so fucking wrong.
Anyway it's because most owners don't commit their whole life, and all their money into their team. They all have big shares in major companies which is were they spend there money.

**Loose Cannon** · 12-29-2004, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sTiMa34

Yankees are the most profitable team, so Steinbrener gets to spend the most money. Steinbrener makes the most, then spends the most, which makes him not one of the richest owners. Quote that post all you want, wouldn't really make sense..since the Yanks have the highest payroll by far?

What? You do know that those other owners profit from other kinds of financial investments right? It's not just baseball teams they own. And NO STEINBRENER DOES NOT MAKE THE MOST. I guess I'll never convince some people though.

Steinbrener may make the most IN BASEBALL, but not in life.

**Loose Cannon** · 12-29-2004, 10:49 AM

and that's my point anyway. The Yankees have the highest payroll because George spends his money on his team.

But don't go and say to me "Steinbrener is the richest owner, who owns a baseball team, and that's why the Yankees win." That's total bullshit.

**Loose Cannon** · 12-29-2004, 11:02 AM

http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/0329/1360060.html

hey look here, the Yankees aren't even the most profitable team in baseball and there are other teams very close to them, who are behind them. So let's just throw that argument out the window now too.

They are worth the most however

**VonErich Lives** · 12-29-2004, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon

and that's my point anyway. The Yankees have the highest payroll because George spends his money on his team.

But don't go and say to me "Steinbrener is the richest owner, who owns a baseball team, and that's why the Yankees win." That's total bullshit.

Your both right... to en extent... I think what Stima missing is you're talking personal worth, he's talking team proffit.

Yes, there are owners who are worth more then George, personal worth.

The Yanks are worth the most and in 2001 were 2nd most profitable.

If the Yanks didn't have YES and Didn't make such a profit, I doubt you'd see them spend this way. Even george has said he does have a cap limit that is a factor of his cap and what he'll pay for being over it.

So, no he is not the "richest owner" personal worth.

But in 2001 he owned the 2nd most profitable team.

That still (as you can see) doesn't stop a lot of team from spending. Some owners don't mind dipping into personal wealth or money from other businesses to try and win w/ their "toy" but some keep them seperate and I don't blame them.

**Loose Cannon** · 12-29-2004, 11:58 AM

I mean I can see why owners don't spend thier money because baseball is not 1st on thier list. I guess it's just a matter of priority really.

And VEL, yeah what you said up there about Steinbrener having to give money to other teams and then those teams don't even use it for baseball, that just makes me go, "wtf?"
It's like free money and they still don't spend it on thier teams.

**RBM** · 12-29-2004, 12:01 PM

Why should virtually every other manager have to spend 2, 3, even 4 times the amount they are spending right now to compete with Steinbrenner. Do you honestly think their should be 200 million dollar payrolls?

Most teams know they aren't going to compete with the Yankees and a few other teams in terms of spending, so they may as well save themselves alot of money by simply not spending anymore. This will always keep the payrolls lopsided.

But hey... I'll keep laughing. The Yankees should realize that they had their highest level of success when they weren't trying to form an allstar team. 6-7 years ago when a good portion of their team was out of their own system and they were trading for/signing guys like Tino and Brosius and Knoblauch, which weren't superstars, but seemed to always come through when needed. They were respectable then.

They can keep spending and spending and I'll keep laughing and laughing when they lose every year. The only thing worse than losing to the Bosox after getting ahead 3 games in the playoffs would be for the Devil Rays to magically make the playoffs next year and eliminate the Yankess on a 30 million dollar payroll. =P

By the way, I completely agree on how fucking retarded it is that lower end teams don't spend luxury tax money to improve their teams. That's fucking ridiculous.

**VonErich Lives** · 12-29-2004, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon

I mean I can see why owners don't spend thier money because baseball is not 1st on thier list. I guess it's just a matter of priority really.

And VEL, yeah what you said up there about Steinbrener having to give money to other teams and then those teams don't even use it for baseball, that just makes me go, "wtf?"
It's like free money and they still don't spend it on thier teams.

I've long been in favor of folding a few teams.

It will make the game better, control spending, make teams more profitable etc...

WTF, just get rid of a few of the non-profitable or valuable teams.

Fewer teams to follow, more mrechandise sold by teams since people will root for other teams, much better product, most the #3 pitchers wouldn't have played before the expansions.

I'm not saying 1/2 the league, just like say 2 teams per confrence.

**Loose Cannon** · 12-29-2004, 12:10 PM

I also agree with anyone who says there should be a cap in baseball. A real cap. It would throw all these arguments out the window.

**BCWWF** · 12-29-2004, 08:31 PM

Who would you fold though?

**YOUR Hero** · 12-29-2004, 09:41 PM

Quote:

By the way, I completely agree on how fucking retarded it is that lower end teams don't spend luxury tax money to improve their teams. That's fucking ridiculous.

Yeah.

They should have to forfit the luxury tax money to baseball's pension or something if they don't use it.

**YOUR Hero** · 12-29-2004, 10:28 PM

Just heard that Randy Johnson is about to head to the Yankees. Vasquez going to Arizona... here we go again.

**BCWWF** · 12-30-2004, 04:03 AM

I swear the Twins are like the one of the best organizations based on personnel, but easily one of the worst economically. The Metrodome has been out of date forever now, it could be the worst park in MLB right now, I can't think of a worse one besides maybe Tropicana Field. They are losing millions of dollars by having to use the Dome still because it gets shit attendance and has a bad lease, but now like 10 years later they are still trying to figure out how to fund a new arena. Its so rediculous, about 10 other stadiums have been built in the time that they have been debating this. Then last season they started up a tv network called Victory One, similar to YES, but they couldn't get the major cable providers to pick it up. DirecTV is owned by Fox, so they wouldn't because they wanted to keep the Twins on FSN, and all the other ones were shit like that too. After going the first third of the season with no Twins coverage in metro areas, they finally gave up and went back to FSN. Theres millions more dollars lost.

If the Twins win another division championship this year it will be very very impressive, but also very bad for the organization as whole. They have been spoiling the people of Minnesota by winning under these shitty conditions so now people don't realize and don't care about all the economic shit. Soon enough they are going to be at the end of their lease with the Metrodome and they are going to leave and go to Portland. People here will put up one helluva fit, but it will just be retarded because they have been bitching about stadium funding for so long but not getting anything done and soon it will be too late. Stupid people who don't realize what a state of the art stadium can do for an economy bitch and bitch and bitch about public funding for a stadium and then bitching that Pohlad doesn't spend more and then when they have the opportunity to move and do it will be going crazy to try to get them to stay, but it will be too late.

The people of Minnesota have been spoiled in the past few years and that is going to fuck us over for ever getting a stadium and being able to have a more competitive payroll. How about that?

**VonErich Lives** · 12-30-2004, 04:51 AM

off the top of my head.

I'd fold, Tampa - They don't compete, don't have a big following and aren't very profitable.

Florida - not a big following and when they do compete it's at a finacial defiecet and they have to have a firesale

Arizona. - They have a bigger following then the other two, but they can't turn a profit, any team that had to have MLB give it money because they couldn't afford they're payroll for the week has problems.

I'd hate to fold the Twins, but either they get a new dome, or they move.

Expos would probably be the 4th.

As for the network, the Twins have to take a hit fitst, NESN (Red Sox) did the same thing, for he first few yeears, most people didn't get to see home games and as time went, more people demanded to see it and at first it was a pay cable channel, it cost $10.00/month a few years ago, they re-did it, so you get it w/ basic cable, and they get a bigger audice and can sell more marketing.

**DaveWadding** · 12-30-2004, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VonErich Lives

off the top of my head.

I'd fold, Tampa - They don't compete, don't have a big following and aren't very profitable.

Florida - not a big following and when they do compete it's at a finacial defiecet and they have to have a firesale

Arizona. - They have a bigger following then the other two, but they can't turn a profit, any team that had to have MLB give it money because they couldn't afford they're payroll for the week has problems.

I'd hate to fold the Twins, but either they get a new dome, or they move.

Expos would probably be the 4th.

As for the network, the Twins have to take a hit fitst, NESN (Red Sox) did the same thing, for he first few yeears, most people didn't get to see home games and as time went, more people demanded to see it and at first it was a pay cable channel, it cost $10.00/month a few years ago, they re-did it, so you get it w/ basic cable, and they get a bigger audice and can sell more marketing.

Why would you fold two teams that they just brought into the league 6 years ago?

Why not fold Milwaukee, I mean, who gives a shit about the Brewers?

Then the Nats...obviously.

Maybe Kansas City...

and the Yankees

.

**VonErich Lives** · 12-30-2004, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveWadding

Why not fold Milwaukee, I mean, who gives a shit about the Brewers?

umm, yeah... fold one of the most profitbale teams in the league that makes sense.

**BCWWF** · 12-30-2004, 04:59 PM

Milwaukee wouldn't even be an option because they have a new arena and are basically owned by MLB.

Kansas City probably isn't an option either because I am sure they still bring in more money and following than a lot of other teams.

**Loose Cannon** · 12-30-2004, 05:04 PM

JOHNSON About to be Traded To THE YANKEES

Told ya So

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1955906

**BCWWF** · 12-30-2004, 05:07 PM

Yeah it was on the bottom line a few minutes ago

"Inside sources in the MLB say that the Yankees and Devil Rays are close to signing a trade that would send Randy Johnson to the Yankees and Javier Vazquez, prospects, and cash to the Devil Rays"

**Loose Cannon** · 12-30-2004, 05:08 PM

*Diamondbacks

**BCWWF** · 12-30-2004, 05:10 PM

lol, I've always got the two teams mixed up

**DaveWadding** · 12-30-2004, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VonErich Lives

umm, yeah... fold one of the most profitbale teams in the league that makes sense.

the question isn't that they're profitable, the question was who gives a shit?

The Clippers are profitable too, you know...

**VonErich Lives** · 12-30-2004, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveWadding

the question isn't that they're profitable, the question was who gives a shit?

The Clippers are profitable too, you know...

No, dave the questions is are they profitable, that's what's being discussed.

as for who cares, aperently a lot of people, otherwise they wouldn't be very profitable would they?

Just because you're not a brewers fan, just because your fav team couldn't afford it's payroll and had to be bailed out.

**BCWWF** · 12-30-2004, 08:13 PM

The Twins lose money every year

**VonErich Lives** · 12-30-2004, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCWWF

The Twins lose money every year

Hence why I said before I'd have the Twins on the list, but those others I'd fold first. I think the Twins could be profitable w/ a new stadium... Wasn't there some big thing a few years ago trying to get a new stadium?

**BCWWF** · 12-30-2004, 10:46 PM

A few years ago/ongoing for about 10 years now

If they don't pass legislation soon the Twins will be gone, but people don't realize that

**VonErich Lives** · 12-31-2004, 04:53 PM

So, new meaning to "Yanking the Big Unit".

Can't wait to see the shirts they come up w/ outside fenway.

Also, hope schilling is healthy and RJ gets the #1 spot... opening day, Fenway, Curt v. Randy... don't get much better than that.

**Loose Cannon** · 12-31-2004, 05:12 PM

OMG TINO IS BACK

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1956381

**MoRcHeEbA** · 12-31-2004, 05:16 PM

OMG ORDER THE RINGS

**BCWWF** · 12-31-2004, 05:18 PM

Yeah thats crazy, I thought the Sports Guy was just being funny when he said that on Page 2, but its a really good decision IMO

**Loose Cannon** · 12-31-2004, 05:19 PM

You don't understand

Tino = Pride of the Yankees

**Loose Cannon** · 12-31-2004, 05:20 PM

And my fav Yankee, 2nd behind Donnie baseball

*Breaks out old school Martinez jersey.

**BCWWF** · 12-31-2004, 05:21 PM

The Yankees are always looked at as if everything may go wrong, but think if everything goes right for them :WHOA:

12-29-2004, 10:49 AM	#450
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	and that's my point anyway. The Yankees have the highest payroll because George spends his money on his team. But don't go and say to me "Steinbrener is the richest owner, who owns a baseball team, and that's why the Yankees win." That's total bullshit. Last edited by Loose Cannon; 12-29-2004 at 11:11 AM.

12-28-2004, 08:12 PM	#442
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	Honda Civic 2001

12-28-2004, 08:32 PM	#443
Nervous Ferret love yourself Posts: 47,788	Steinbrenner is the 2nd richest owner. The guy in Cleveland is the richest I believe. But, obviously Steinbrenner is willing to pay the most.

12-28-2004, 09:46 PM	#444
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	wrong.

12-28-2004, 10:01 PM	#445
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	Forbes just did there ranking thing for richest people in the world: Baseball Owners: Carl Pohlad #88: Twins Arte Moreno #244: Angels John Moores #347: Padres Tom Hicks #350: Rangers Tom Werner #396: Red Sox Stein wasn't even on the list. So from now on if anybody makes mention that Steinbrener has the most money and that's why the Yankees win, I'm just going to quote this post.

12-29-2004, 02:49 AM	#446
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	Fuck you Pohlad Spend some cash and win a World Series before you die

12-29-2004, 02:56 AM	#447
Jesus Shuttlesworth Posts: 42,765	Yankees are the most profitable team, so Steinbrener gets to spend the most money. Steinbrener makes the most, then spends the most, which makes him not one of the richest owners. Quote that post all you want, wouldn't really make sense..since the Yanks have the highest payroll by far?

12-29-2004, 02:58 AM	#448
Nervous Ferret love yourself Posts: 47,788	Wow.. I was so fucking wrong. Anyway it's because most owners don't commit their whole life, and all their money into their team. They all have big shares in major companies which is were they spend there money.

12-29-2004, 11:02 AM	#451
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/0329/1360060.html hey look here, the Yankees aren't even the most profitable team in baseball and there are other teams very close to them, who are behind them. So let's just throw that argument out the window now too. They are worth the most however

12-29-2004, 11:58 AM	#453
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	I mean I can see why owners don't spend thier money because baseball is not 1st on thier list. I guess it's just a matter of priority really. And VEL, yeah what you said up there about Steinbrener having to give money to other teams and then those teams don't even use it for baseball, that just makes me go, "wtf?" It's like free money and they still don't spend it on thier teams.

12-29-2004, 12:01 PM	#454
RBM RoggaN Posts: 9,551	Why should virtually every other manager have to spend 2, 3, even 4 times the amount they are spending right now to compete with Steinbrenner. Do you honestly think their should be 200 million dollar payrolls? Most teams know they aren't going to compete with the Yankees and a few other teams in terms of spending, so they may as well save themselves alot of money by simply not spending anymore. This will always keep the payrolls lopsided. But hey... I'll keep laughing. The Yankees should realize that they had their highest level of success when they weren't trying to form an allstar team. 6-7 years ago when a good portion of their team was out of their own system and they were trading for/signing guys like Tino and Brosius and Knoblauch, which weren't superstars, but seemed to always come through when needed. They were respectable then. They can keep spending and spending and I'll keep laughing and laughing when they lose every year. The only thing worse than losing to the Bosox after getting ahead 3 games in the playoffs would be for the Devil Rays to magically make the playoffs next year and eliminate the Yankess on a 30 million dollar payroll. =P By the way, I completely agree on how fucking retarded it is that lower end teams don't spend luxury tax money to improve their teams. That's fucking ridiculous.

12-29-2004, 12:10 PM	#456
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	I also agree with anyone who says there should be a cap in baseball. A real cap. It would throw all these arguments out the window.

12-29-2004, 08:31 PM	#457
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	Who would you fold though?

12-29-2004, 10:28 PM	#459
YOUR Hero Adminstigator Posts: 102,491	Just heard that Randy Johnson is about to head to the Yankees. Vasquez going to Arizona... here we go again.

12-30-2004, 04:03 AM	#460
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	I swear the Twins are like the one of the best organizations based on personnel, but easily one of the worst economically. The Metrodome has been out of date forever now, it could be the worst park in MLB right now, I can't think of a worse one besides maybe Tropicana Field. They are losing millions of dollars by having to use the Dome still because it gets shit attendance and has a bad lease, but now like 10 years later they are still trying to figure out how to fund a new arena. Its so rediculous, about 10 other stadiums have been built in the time that they have been debating this. Then last season they started up a tv network called Victory One, similar to YES, but they couldn't get the major cable providers to pick it up. DirecTV is owned by Fox, so they wouldn't because they wanted to keep the Twins on FSN, and all the other ones were shit like that too. After going the first third of the season with no Twins coverage in metro areas, they finally gave up and went back to FSN. Theres millions more dollars lost. If the Twins win another division championship this year it will be very very impressive, but also very bad for the organization as whole. They have been spoiling the people of Minnesota by winning under these shitty conditions so now people don't realize and don't care about all the economic shit. Soon enough they are going to be at the end of their lease with the Metrodome and they are going to leave and go to Portland. People here will put up one helluva fit, but it will just be retarded because they have been bitching about stadium funding for so long but not getting anything done and soon it will be too late. Stupid people who don't realize what a state of the art stadium can do for an economy bitch and bitch and bitch about public funding for a stadium and then bitching that Pohlad doesn't spend more and then when they have the opportunity to move and do it will be going crazy to try to get them to stay, but it will be too late. The people of Minnesota have been spoiled in the past few years and that is going to fuck us over for ever getting a stadium and being able to have a more competitive payroll. How about that?

12-30-2004, 04:51 AM	#461
VonErich Lives WTF do you want? Posts: 14,760	off the top of my head. I'd fold, Tampa - They don't compete, don't have a big following and aren't very profitable. Florida - not a big following and when they do compete it's at a finacial defiecet and they have to have a firesale Arizona. - They have a bigger following then the other two, but they can't turn a profit, any team that had to have MLB give it money because they couldn't afford they're payroll for the week has problems. I'd hate to fold the Twins, but either they get a new dome, or they move. Expos would probably be the 4th. As for the network, the Twins have to take a hit fitst, NESN (Red Sox) did the same thing, for he first few yeears, most people didn't get to see home games and as time went, more people demanded to see it and at first it was a pay cable channel, it cost $10.00/month a few years ago, they re-did it, so you get it w/ basic cable, and they get a bigger audice and can sell more marketing.

12-30-2004, 04:59 PM	#464
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	Milwaukee wouldn't even be an option because they have a new arena and are basically owned by MLB. Kansas City probably isn't an option either because I am sure they still bring in more money and following than a lot of other teams.

12-30-2004, 05:04 PM	#465
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	JOHNSON About to be Traded To THE YANKEES Told ya So http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1955906

12-30-2004, 05:07 PM	#466
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	Yeah it was on the bottom line a few minutes ago "Inside sources in the MLB say that the Yankees and Devil Rays are close to signing a trade that would send Randy Johnson to the Yankees and Javier Vazquez, prospects, and cash to the Devil Rays"

12-30-2004, 05:08 PM	#467
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	*Diamondbacks

12-30-2004, 05:10 PM	#468
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	lol, I've always got the two teams mixed up

12-30-2004, 08:13 PM	#471
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	The Twins lose money every year

12-30-2004, 10:46 PM	#473
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	A few years ago/ongoing for about 10 years now If they don't pass legislation soon the Twins will be gone, but people don't realize that

12-31-2004, 04:53 PM	#474
VonErich Lives WTF do you want? Posts: 14,760	So, new meaning to "Yanking the Big Unit". Can't wait to see the shirts they come up w/ outside fenway. Also, hope schilling is healthy and RJ gets the #1 spot... opening day, Fenway, Curt v. Randy... don't get much better than that.

12-31-2004, 05:12 PM	#475
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	OMG TINO IS BACK http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1956381

12-31-2004, 05:16 PM	#476
MoRcHeEbA Dirty Sanchez Below Posts: 16,149	OMG ORDER THE RINGS

12-31-2004, 05:18 PM	#477
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	Yeah thats crazy, I thought the Sports Guy was just being funny when he said that on Page 2, but its a really good decision IMO

12-31-2004, 05:19 PM	#478
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	You don't understand Tino = Pride of the Yankees

12-31-2004, 05:20 PM	#479
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	And my fav Yankee, 2nd behind Donnie baseball *Breaks out old school Martinez jersey.

12-31-2004, 05:21 PM	#480
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	The Yankees are always looked at as if everything may go wrong, but think if everything goes right for them :WHOA: